OPM AP Revision Part 3

[Qawsedf234]

The 7x thing has literally no basis in universe. I just picked a random number to illustrate a power difference in the same tier. You can have AP 9x that of Choze and still be Large Town Level, despite being able to casually one shot him.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

The 7x thing has literally no basis in universe. I just picked a random number to illustrate a power difference in the same tier. You can have AP 9x that of Choze and still be Large Town Level, despite being able to casually one shot him.

You can't do that I'm pretty sure. I've always been in favor for some sort of established one-shot multiplier. But not like this. You can't just pull a number out of nowhere, since you admitted it has no basis in universe and is just random.

 

[GyroNutz]

It was a hypothetical. I don't see any problem with using a random number for something that doesn't matter whatsoever?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I think we're on different pages here.

• I never once suggested we actually use the 7x thing as a one shot multipler

• The purpose of the 7x thing was to show that a tier can vary. The attack potency chart even lists how much a tier can vary. 8-C for example, varies by 8x. Meaning a character can have 5-7.99x baseline AP, but still be 8-C

• The 3x thing I used before is a more legitmate example of what I think a one shot could be. Others suggested something like 3-5x

 

[VersusJunkie54]

3-5X multiplier for a oneshot has always made sense to me. But this site is too stubborn to agree on anything/ Those figures are used for VS battles. Many staff have put out ridiculous figures like "10% required to oneshot cuz Dragon Ball power lvls"

I'm not completely against it though. So I won't argue further.

 

[GyroNutz]

5x for a one-shot seems the best value for versus threads, whereas 3x seems like the safest value for scaling chains. That's just me though; either way, someone who is 7x stronger than Choze can be both in the same tier as him and one-shot him.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Right. So my arugment is that Bang and others shouldn't be rated as Low 7-B, because it relies on saying a one shot means you need >4x their AP rating, which I don't agree with.

Also as mentioned before, I never once said we should use the 7x AP thing as the standard one shot stat. Just that you can have 7x someone's AP and despite being able to one shot them, still be in the same tier.

 

[The_Calaca]

Can someone summarize what has been discussed?

 

[Spartan1204]

Right. So my arugment is that Bang and others shouldn't be rated as Low 7-B, because it relies on saying a one shot means you need >4x their AP rating, which I don't agree with.

Also as mentioned before, I never once said we should use the 7x AP thing as the standard one shot stat. Just that you can have 7x someone's AP and despite being able to one shot them, still be in the same tier.

Except Bang isn't just a level above Choze, but two. Choze << MA Cadre like Gums and Mutated Fuhrer << Bang, which is why I find Bang being the same AP tier as Choze would be ridiculous. Even if you use 4x, it would lead to 16x stronger than Choze.

 

[GyroNutz]

Base Fuhrer would be a level above Choze, no?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can someone summarize what has been discussed?

Large OPM AP/Durability and speed downgrade. Genos' mountain feat is considered an oitlier and we're no longer scaling everyone to Atomic Samurai.

> Even if you use 4x, it would lead to 16x stronger than Choze

Which is why I brought it up. Of it was 3x then he'd still be High 7-C and if its 10% then he'd definitly be High 7-C.

 

[Andytrenom]

Should Genos have three keys?

Early, Post g4 and current?

 

[Andytrenom]

Also royal ripper should probably just be high 7-C. The "sharp weapon" logic is almost never applied when scaling characters afaik.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Due to the revisions, yes. Genos needs 3 keys. Sonic also needs 2 keys.

Also if sharp weapons don't get applied here then yeah, he's High 7-C. With those changes in mind do you think the revision can go through?

 

[Andytrenom]

I think so, yeah.

 

[Spartan1204]

Large OPM AP/Durability and speed downgrade. Genos' mountain feat is considered an oitlier and we're no longer scaling everyone to Atomic Samurai.

> Even if you use 4x, it would lead to 16x stronger than Choze

Which is why I brought it up. Of it was 3x then he'd still be High 7-C and if its 10% then he'd definitly be High 7-C.

Then we're at an impasse. 3x shouldn't be used as a oneshot definition, it would make a super majority of vs discussion stomps. What's the point of even having tiers when only the subtiers can fight each other.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Without more backing I can't agree with a Low 7-B boost. Bang's current rating of 7-A not only relies on a larger scaling but the AP gap is also smaller in 7x. Large Town level works for now, and if he gets more stuff later on he can easily be upgraded. Like how Boros and Garou were 6-A for a bit until a High 6-A scale was found

 

[Spartan1204]

That's why Bang should he At Least Large Town until a future manga feat can be calculated. Given how significantly stronger Bang is to monsters that are significantly stronger to Choze. Bang should be left at "At Least Large Town" until we can confirm his tier.

 

[The_Calaca]

Spartan makes sense.

 

[Qawsedf234]

At least Large Town level works for Orochi, GS, and God, but I don't think it works for Bang. His scale is: "Choze -> Ugly by an unknown degree -> Ugly's mutant state which is stronger by an unknown degree -> Bang who one shot". It's not definitive enough for a at least rating imo.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Spartan makes sense. And yeah that's about right.

I mean on one hand you can also scale Bang to BS, whom was only harmed (enough to really take damage) by the likes of Garou, Tatsumaki, and considerably Sweet Mask. It also helps that Orochi, GS, and God are way above that level.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Genos, Atomic Samurai, Bang, Tornado, and Sweet Mask could all destroy BS bodies. They aren't notably durable when they aren't combined.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Genos never harmed one actually. The only time in the webcomic he 'attacked' BS? The effect was obscured and BS proceeded to tear him apart.

Everyone else you listed is pretty hi tier though SM had to exert himself to keep up (and was always stated to be stronger than the weaker S classes) while AS did harm BS, it was in the end pointless for him. The only one who actually seriously harmed BS was Tats and Garou.

 

[Qawsedf234]

He did [enoigh damage to BS for him to lessen his grip on Tornado]. Plus considerkng what he previously looked like its likely [Genos damaged him].

But if Genos didn't damage him, the scaling wouldn't change. Choze -> BS by an unknown degree -> Bang who one shot a lot of bodies. It carries the same issues Ugly scaling does. So I dom't think its good enough to warrent a at least rating either.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Considering how this Genos is much more offense focused now on the manga, or so we hear, it would make sense. Losing your grip on something in surprise is possible. Like being splashed by water, I'd be pretty surprised enough to drop.

I'm assuming that the Genos feat is the one with 1.77 Kilotons.

Going by the very low and pushing it x3 scaling, you have x27 in total. 47.79 Kilotons, that's enough for Large town level at the very bare minimum. Even if you say that the upgrade only doubled his strength, which is never the case for most transformations, you can end up with x 9 which leads to 15.93 Kilotons, safe on the Large Town level.

A lot of others are thinking it's good enough at least to warrant it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well, we'll wait and see the manga to make sure. But since multiple people agree with Spartan I guess Bang and those who scale to him can get an at least Large Town level rating.

Is everyone good with the changes then?

 

[The_Calaca]

I agree.

 

[Peter1129]

Well there is once more thing. Since Royal Ripper is becoming just High 7-C via hurting Garou wouldn't that mean all Dragon lvl threats are also just High 7-C now since they should be stronger than a Demon lvl threat like Royal Ripper.

 

[Qawsedf234]

They don't have a direct scaling reference. So it'd be "At least 7-C, likely High 7-C" like with DCEU characters.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Unknow: Accel^, Raide^, Withered Sprout (Large Building level pending calc acceptence)^, Drive Knight^
At least Small Building Level: Suprise Attack Plum^, Jumping Spider^, Scaledo^, Golden Ball^, Spring Mustachio^, Great Philosopher^, Stinger^, Death Gatling^, Magic Trick Ma^, Heavy Tank Fundoshi^, Choze (Human form)^

Small Town level: Genos (early/calc ), Prisoner, Deep Sea King (Dry and Wet), Grizzly Nyah, G4, Beast King, Mosquito Girl (Probably warrents a "possibly" rating), Zombiema, Sonic (Pre-Chapter 43). Both Sonic and Genos need an additional key. Sonic is "Pre-Saitama Training | Post-Saitama Training" and Genos "Pre-G4 | Post-G4 | Post-Monster Association"

Town Level: Genos (Post-G4), Sonic (Post-Training), Blizzard, Demonic Fa,Do-S, Awakened Cockroach, Tanktop Master, Bofoy (calc/possibly higher with his army. With prep he can make Large Mountain durability buildings), Gale Wind (Human Form/fought against Sonic), Child Emperor, Iaia

At least Town Level, possibly Large Town level: Carnage Kabuto (base), Groribas, Geryuganshoop, Melzalgald, Metal Bat, Vaccine Ma^ (calc)

Large Town Level: Beefcake^ (calc ), Silverfang*, Suiryu^, Choze (monster)^ (calc ), Metal Bat (pumped up), Darkshine, Carnage Kabuto (Carnage Mode), Bakuzan (monster)^, Flashy Flash*, BS, Sweet Mask*, Watchdog Ma, Garou, Pig God, Atomic Samurai*, Evil Natural Water*, Gums, Fuhrer Ugly, Gale Wind* (Monster Form), Royal Ripper

At least Large Town Level: God, Homless Emperor (AP only since he could kill himself with the energy balls), GS*, Orochi*, Psykos, Elder Centipede, Overgrown Rover, Bomb*

Other levels: Hundred-Eyes Octopus (At least Building level)^, 170,000 Year Magicicada Nymph (At least Building level)^, Hammerhead (Multi-City Block)^,

• = People who keep the MHS+ speed as agreeded upon.

^ = People who don't scale to Genos is any notable way, so they don't get a High Hypersonic rating

Scaling reasoning = Small Building level for being scaled to a 20 meter Tiger threat that ran through a building. Small Town Level for being scaled from Genos. Town Level from being scaled to G4 Genos. Large Town level from being scaled to Choze/Suiryu. At least Large Town Level for being scaled to Bang or due to large scaling chains.

Okay, so everyone agrees with the above stats and it can be applied right?

 

[GyroNutz]

Minor nitpick, but I think Bofoy should have a 'possibly Higher' or even 'possibly far Higher' since he's been hinted on a couple of occasions to be one of the strongest S-Class heroes; just that we haven't seen his full potential.

Other than that I agree

 

[Qawsedf234]

Possibly higher with his army or something. Plus with prep he can make at least Large Mountain level building or something.

 

[Peter1129]

Well I do have a few questions as well as a few nitpicks which I'll get to later on. But first off the questions.

Why aren't the A-Class heroes scaled to Hammerhead who's a B-Class criminal?

Also shouldn't Hundred Eye Octopus and 170,000 year magicicada nymph be unknown or at the very least Low 7-C for being a Demon Lvl threat?

 

[GyroNutz]

We aren't scaling demon level threats to other demon level threats due to the amount that they can vary. However, I do believe hundred eye octopus should be higher than building level via its sheer size and the fact it was crushing skyscrapers

 

[Qawsedf234]

> Why aren't the A-Class heroes scaled to Hammerhead who's a B-Class criminal?

Lack of a scaling chain

> Also shouldn't Hundred Eye Octopus and 170,000 year magicicada nymph be unknown or at the very least Low 7-C for being a Demon Lvl threat?

They both have building level feats, so "At least building level, likely much higher" is probably a good tier for them.

 

[Peter1129]

Well A-Class Heroes being 8-A is kinda consistent with how Sneck and Lightning Max defeated two of the Three Crows who are a Demon Lvl threat when all three of them are together.

Also didn't Golden Ball and Spring Mustachio wound Garou before he became threat lvl dragon?

 

[GyroNutz]

Golden Ball and Spring Mustachio got beaten pretty badly by a tiger level threat, I don't think they should get scaling

 

[Peter1129]

They were beaten by Kombu Infinity who was a tiger lvl threat. They probably got stronger by the time they fight against Garou.

 

[Qawsedf234]

> Well A-Class Heroes being 8-A is kinda consistent with how Sneck and Lightning Max defeated two of the Three Crows who are a Demon Lvl threat when all three of them are together.

Being > Tigers does not mean they're Low 7-C. It just means they're at least above 9-A.

> Also didn't Golden Ball and Spring Mustachio wound Garou before he became threat lvl dragon?

They did, but considering that Garou constantly gains more and more power every time he fights I wouldn't know how you'd place them. Plus neither could defeat a single tiger level threat despite working together, so them harming Garou was either due to sharp weapons or him just being weaker at the time.

 

[GyroNutz]

Oh yeah Kombu was a tiger