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OPM AP Revision discussion Part 2

> I feel like Bang being able to oneshot a mutated Fuhrer Ugly, someone Genos could barely damage when Fuhrer Ugly was in base form, and Gums, someone Pig God couldn't damage, should put him into City Level.

The gap between Choze's feat and Low 7-B is over a 9x difference to my memory and even more if it's 7-B. Bang being that much stronger isn't supported as of now

> Choze was never given a threat level rating so we shouldnt really use it to scale via threat levels.

I've defaulted into thinking he's Demon level, but you're right with the Unknown rank. Until he gets one back scaling to the non-MA Dragons doesn't really have a basis
 
Yeah here's my old comment talking about it

The gap between that feat and Low 7-B (not even 7-B) is 9.76x. The gap between Choze's blast and baseline 7-B is a massive 61.51x. There's no reasonable scale to place anyone at 7-B or even Low 7-B from Choze.
 
Why would Gouketsu make such a big deal of Bakuzan being a Dragon yet just say "he turned out okay" for Choze if Choze was also a Dragon?
 
He didn't make a big deal about the Dragon level. He says Bazukan turned out a huge success, is dragon level, and is above S-Class. [1] He could be a good bit above your average Dragon as well.
 
He calls him a Dragon Level immediately after he says he's a huge success. He's obviously inferring that Bakuzan is a huge success because he's a Dragon. And using the fact that he's a Dragon as a further testament to his power. Whereas with Choze he makes no mention of him being a Dragon, and merely calls him "okay". Also he never says Bakuzan's above S-Class, he says he might be able to defeat a S-Class hero.
 
I keep forgetting what's backwards and what isn't in manga, especially since that one is right at the side.

Was this a wrong translation?
 
Well why are you only now suspecting that the scan you yourself were using is wrong?
 
I was just asking if my version was a wrong translation because we have different ones.
 
I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure *********** is fairly reliable. Its translations also don't (usually) differ that much from other translations I read besides semantics.
 
Anyways I'm still iffy on scaling Choze to CK, Vaccine Man, and Borls's commanders. There's just no real proper scale to put them there besides "they should be this strong". Plus disaster ratings aren't strickly about AP, but a combination of various aspects about a monster.
 
I think if it's specifically highlighted how a Dragon Level is much stronger than Choze is, then it's reasonable to say that other Dragon Levels would be above him. Especially a Dragon Level who has the exact same power as Choze like Dragon Level. At least for a "Likely ___" or "At least ___, likely higher".

Also Choze doesn't even have as good feats as Vaccine Man does. Vaccine Man's the one who has a Town level feat. Choze is pretty much featless, and a character much stronger than him has a terrible antifeat.

I don't agree with not scaling Vaccine Man above Choze when it's both pretty much established Choze isn't on Dragon Level power and Vaccine Man even has better feats technically.
 
I'm fine with a "At least Town level, likely Large Town level" rating for the non-MA Dragons. So if that's okay can the changes be applied?
 
I'll see what others think but I still believe Vaccine Man and those others should just be Town Level. I'm fine with either or though.
 
While we're waiting, are you fine with the suggested speed ratings? * = MHS+, nothing for High Hypersonic, and ^ for just superhuman
 
That seems fine to me personally. I'm going to bed now though.
 
Maybe the A-Class? A Tiger level threat reacted to him and A-Class are built around fighting them at least. But I don't see anyone else scaling. So for Stinger maybe something like "Superhuman, possibly supersonic" or something.
 
>The gap between Choze's feat and Low 7-B is over a 9x difference to my memory and even more if it's 7-B. Bang being that much stronger isn't supported as of now

It's literally shown through scaling. Dragons are above Choze, especially in durability with Fuhrer Ugly and Gums. Bang should get at least Low 7-B.

If the same tier could oneshot each other, the majority of the match ups in this wiki would be stomps.
 
> Dragons are above Choze, especially in durability with Fuhrer Ugly and Gums. Bang should get at least Low 7-B.

Why? Gums could be 3x Choze and Bang could be 3x Gums and he would still be High 7-C. I just don't see a resonable scale to place Bang at Low 7-B. Maybe Orochi/GS but not him.

> If the same tier could oneshot each other, the majority of the match ups in this wiki would be stomps.

The same tier can one shot each other. Superman can one shot a baseline 4-B character for example and Krillin one shot multiple 5-B characters despite also being 5-B. You can be 7x Choze which would be enough for a one shot and still be Large Town level.
 
Gums being only 3x Choze in durability doesn't make sense, he literally didn't get harmed by Pig God. Plus, if we use the measure of 7x from each other instead of the 3x, then Bang would be 49x Choze.
 
Without any calcs to scale to at most those that could stomp or one shot dragon lvl threats like Bang would be At least High 7-C they could get a likely higher next to it but I'm pretty sure that's all.
 
What Peter said. But I don't think Bang would get even that.

> he literally didn't get harmed by Pig God

The thing is, Pig God is scaled to Gums not the other way around. If Pig God was incapable of harming Gums then his tier should be lowered to Unknown, Low 7-C, or 7-C until he gets something
 
Also, why are we discounting Genos's city feat. This was Genos using Maximum Incineration cannon, this attack was only used only a few times in the series, House of Evolution, against Saitama, against the meteor, and against Elder Centipede. It's Genos's trump card. I think we should keep the feat and only apply it to characters affected by the said attack.
 
As discussed throughout both posts its a feat preformed in the beginning of the series that is vastly better than almost everhthing else and is never replicated again.
 
It's only used four times. It's likely to be used again in the current arc with the 10 second limit stuff. One time, we didn't see it's effect because it was covered up by dust from Saitama's attack. The other time the meteor is made up of extremely tough material. Elder Centipede is elder centipede. There haven't been inconsistencies with this attack. We should simply restrict it's use in scaling.
 
With Saitama it caused no notable or seen environmental damage and the fireball against EC was calced to be a 8-B or 8-A feat. Even if we did restrict it, there's inconsistcies and questions that form around it.
 
The maximum incineration cannon against Elder Centipede is the one used inside the monster, not the attack intercepted by the monster.
 
The smoke from Saitama's attack against Genos covers more than half of the double page spread, of course you're not going to see the damage from Genos's attack
 
Then it should've killed EC considering that's its only 7-B feat and it blasted his internal organs. We're just not using 7-B Genos without more stuff backing it. Like another 7-B feat preformed by someone who scales to him.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Then it should've killed EC considering that's its only 7-B feat and it blasted his internal organs. We're just not using 7-B Genos without more stuff backing it. Like another 7-B feat preformed by someone who scales to him.
Click to expand...
What...

Did you just imply your opinion overrules the author's? Elder Centipede tanked the attack because he can tank the attack plus regen. It's Genos's trump card, something unique to him. Characters equal to him don't need to match his best attack.
 
> Did you just imply your opinion overrules the author's

No? EC was damaged by weaker stuff, so 7-B doesn't make a lot of sense. And like mentioned in botb threads, the 7-B feat is just an outlier. Especially since his 7-B feat didn't even have a long charge time, it was all of one page.
 
See my problem with choze being used to scsle without a threat level just doesnt seem right, Murata stated in stream a while back that Suiryu was equal to human garou, who was considered a dragon level threat by this community. I personally dont being a healthy suiryu was too far off from Monster baguzan tbh.
 
> Murata stated in stream a while back that Suiryu was equal to human garou,

I've seen this statement before, but the only source I found was a unverified Reddit comment that was outside of a stream thread. Do you have a source for the statement?
 
Qawsedf234 said:
> Did you just imply your opinion overrules the author's

No? EC was damaged by weaker stuff, so 7-B doesn't make a lot of sense. And like mentioned in botb threads, the 7-B feat is just an outlier. Especially since his 7-B feat didn't even have a long charge time, it was all of one page.
Click to expand...
Charge up time > no charge up time. This a panel showing him charging up. Elder Centipede also wasn't damaged by weaker stuff, I don't know where you got that from.

The Garou and Suiryu quote was never verified, so it shouldn't be taken. Garou is Dragon post Elder Centipede, so even if human Garou is equal to Suiryu, Suiryu would be equal to a demon.
 
There are fake translators on Murata's chat, so I don't trust the word of anyone except, sysr23, hdx514, and Lee, for stream translations.
 
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