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OPM AP Revision discussion Part 2

Ok. I don't think it has, except against Carnage, and even then it was more his face.
 
Quangotjokes said:
That really only applies if you're guarding, in the opm verse that doesnt matter, Gouketsu wasnt gaurding, and tanked blows from a strong Suiryu, even in his eyes lol, Bakuzan got hurt by a weakned suiryu.

And come on now, saying he's not close to dragon level is complete speculation with nothing to support that claim.
Click to expand...
Getting hit when you're not expecting hit does a lot more damage than getting hit when you're expecting it and fighting someone. That's common sense. Gouketsu didn't get hurt because he's that damn strong. Even without being on guard Suiryu still couldn't hurt him. But Bakuzan isn't Gouketsu so that's irrelevant.

You don't need to be anywhere near as strong as someone to be able to break their pinky toe while they're off guard. Yeah Suiryu was weakened but he still did incredibly minimal damage that doesn't really indicate he's on par with Bakuzan.

No. Saying Suiryu's close to Dragon Level is complete speculation with nothing to support, since Suiryu has zero feats or statements to suggest he's close to Dragon Level. Especially when a Demon Level is pretty much on par with him. (Or even if not a Demon Level, a monster who has nothing to suggest he's a Dragon, and who is stated to be much weaker than Bakuzan.)
 
Exactly, Bakuzan needs gaurd attacks from Suiryu even while weakned, while gouketsu is so far above him he doesnt. That clealy indicates suiryu while not weakned is somewhat comparable to Bakuzan.

He still broke his toe, don't discredit it. He clealy did zero damage to Gouketszu's eye. His EYE.

Choze is unknown, but you're trying to place him somehwere when he could very well be a dragon. but it's unknown.

Gouketzu also said that he might be able to suprass an S class, he was uncertain.
 
Quangotjokes said:
Exactly, Bakuzan needs gaurd attacks from Suiryu even while weakned, while gouketsu is so far above him he doesnt. That clealy indicates suiryu while not weakned is somewhat comparable to Bakuzan.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. Gouketsu being so damn strong that even while off guard he can tank attacks from Suiryu's attacks doesn't suddenly mean the idea of being more suseptible to damage when you're off guard no longer exists.

Quangotjokes said:
He still broke his toe, don't discredit it. He clealy did zero damage to Gouketszu's eye. His EYE.
Click to expand...
Breaking someone's pinky toe off guard is very minimal damage that doesn't at all mean your strength is on par with them. And "oh but a completely unrelated character who's ridiculously stronger than Bakuzan took even less damage so that now makes the minimal damage Bakuzan took significant" doesn't work.

Quangotjokes said:
Choze is unknown, but you're trying to place him somehwere when he could very well be a dragon. but it's unknown.
Click to expand...
What happened to "that's speculation with nothing to support that claim." Choze has nothing at all to suggest he's a Dragon. And why would Gouketsu make such a big deal of Bakuzan being a Dragon if Choze was also one? "Oh he's a tremendous success! I bet he's a Dragon" vs just "He turned out okay".

Quangotjokes said:
You can't honestly believe that full power suiryu couldnt damage Bakuzan just because Gouketsu said he was strong?
Click to expand...
Suiryu could damage Bakuzan. Just not any significant damage and he'd get his ass whooped by him. Bakuzan is much stronger than Suiryu. Why do I say that? Cause he's much stronger than a guy pretty even with Suiryu.
 
Human Bakuzan was. Him seeing the fight was what made him realize Suiryu's way stronger and inspired him to eat the monster cells. Why?
 
Because Bazukan stated he became more powerful than Suiryu, and this confirms he's seen his full power.

Also, I'm going to reiterate what I said before, Bazukan was called the "Strongest Man in the History of Super Fight", and he took multiple Monster Cells, giving more reason for him to be stronger than Choze, as he likely has a much stronger base and amp.
 
"Gouketsu being so damn strong that even while off guard he can tank attacks from Suiryu's attacks doesn't suddenly mean the idea of being more suseptible to damage when you're off guard no longer exists."

This stuff matter within different verses, can you name another instance of this happening outside of saitama?

He broke his bone, a regular human couldnt have done that. Had Bakuzan had confirmed planet level dura, you'd be scaling him.

Gouketsu said that after Bakuzan demonstrated his strength. Choze was killed right after he demonstrated his.

"Why do I say that? Cause he's much stronger than a guy pretty even with Suiryu."

Speculation lol was it stated he was stronger? No, Gouketsu was generally impressed with suiryu's strength as well.
 
ByAsura said:
Because Bazukan stated he became more powerful than Suiryu, and this confirms he's seen his full power.
Also, I'm going to reiterate what I said before, Bazukan was called the "Strongest Man in the History of Super Fight", and he took multiple Monster Cells, giving more reason for him to be stronger than Choze, as he likely has a much stronger base and amp.
Click to expand...
I didn't really take that statement to literal, Bakuzan thought he was stronger than gouketsu as well.
 
That's true, but at that time he didn't see Gouketsu's strength due to him holding back against Suiryu (by his own admition), and Bazukan was out for the rest of the time.

Also, Bazukan is stated to be above S-Classes, not below.
 
He probably did. Fighters are like this in the series, they can scale and see powers with other opponents, that's how Bazukan's human form said Suiryu was stronger, despite it being repeatedly implied they've never fought previously.
 
Wait ryu said Gouketsu said he tur out "Okay", i just read the chapter and he said he, " Ho ho, this one turned out pretty good, i'd say" When he turned.
 
ByAsura said:
He probably did. Fighters are like this in the series, they can scale and see powers with other opponents, that's how Bazukan's human form said Suiryu was stronger, despite it being repeatedly implied they've never fought previously.
Click to expand...
That's debunked by the simple fact he still thought he was stronger than gouketsu, if he could sense his power he wouldnt have attacked.
 
Which I already debunked because he was still holding back against Suiryu by Gou's own admition. He also seemed to have become extremely over confident upon becoming a monster.
 
what does holding back gotta do withh sensing power?

Boros can sense power Carnage Kabuto can sense power

These guys havent shown to be able to do so.
 
A lot, because they're holding back strength. I don't mean the kind of Ki Sensing thing, I mean like the fighter instinct. Gouketsu shows what I mean, as he could surmise that Choze and Bazukan are impressive monsters, and the latter is above S-Classes.

I even gave an example of Bazukan doing this.
 
So that somehow contradicts every other time Gouketsu did this?

How does that prove your point? If anything, that proves what I said about him holding back.
 
My point was fighters have keen instincts that allow them to see the strengths of others. Gouketsu has done this without fighting, and so have other fighters.
 
Choze's and Bazukan's. In the latters case, he did have a slight demonstration, but nothing that'd put him above S-Classes, especially since he said Baz "looks" like he's above them, not that punching a heavily weakened Suiryu who has trouble taking down a demon level would amount to this.

He stated that Orochi is still stronger than him and anyone on the planet, despite the latter only having defeated his human form, which is apparently above Suiryu in skill though. Gou also states that Suiryu could be an executive if he had a monster cell, but that could just be lying and guess work.
 
Bakuzans attack wasnt slight, he was slight when he was torturing him. Gouketsu got a barrage while all choze did was backhand the guy behind him.
 
No, I was talking about the Three Crows as in demon level, not Choze.

The torturing came after, the first attack was appearing in front of Suiryu and slamming him into the ground once, which didn't even hurt him much, then Gou said that Baz is stronger than S-Classes.
 
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