• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Okay..first of all..I have a basic question...why cant massless energy actually interact with the ground causing earthquake? When maseless energy like photons can vibrate?
The argument isn't that massless energy can't interact with the ground. The fact is that Thermal energy can't via heat transfer. It would take a way longer time for any noticeable damage to occur. It is not thermal energy.
Orochi himself says he is digging up energy from the Earth in order to beat Saitama,not mass
I know that, but it definitely isn't thermal energy. We also see that the thing that Orochi pulled up caused displacement in the mantle and outer core, as well as the core itself. That means that something physical has had to been there to move it. It is not Orochi's tail because we see that the displacement is in the form of what Orochi dragged up.
so its behaving like how energy used for powers in other series works like
We aren't arguing about the Gaia Cannon itself, we are talking about the pull. As I've stated what Orochi pulled caused the earthquake that exploded. That is something thermal energy can't do in that timeframe.
its reach to say that he sucked 2 quintillion tons of mass, when there is 0 evidence for that.
How is there 0 evidence when it's literally in the manga. We see that in that the core is visibly changed after Orochi extracted it, meaning that something physical was moved. here.
 
Okay..first of all..I have a basic question...why cant massless energy actually interact with the ground causing earthquake? When maseless energy like photons can vibrate?

I am also seeing the comments of "energy is maseless!" and thats not entirely true. Not all energy lacks mass. Some form of energy lack mass like light energy while other form of energy does have mass however for example electrical energy which does have mass ie mass of electron but its very low.

So for the record, I agree with the CRT and I was waiting for someone to do that, the fact that calculation assumed Orochi pulled 2 quintillions of tons is something I dont understand why they did that..like Orochi himself says he is digging up energy from the Earth in order to beat Saitama,not mass, Orochi has no use for the mass.
Not all energy is massless but the energy that is being used here (In the new calc) is thermal energy, which is massless.

If what Orochi pulled was purely thermal energy, I have to ask does the thermal energy movement Orochi caused moves/transfer realistically? I'm not the brightest when it comes to science shit but thermal energy transfer would not behave or look like what was shown in the Orochi pull panels.

There could be arguments made to say that Orochi is pulling neither thermal energy nor magma but some other energy or that it's a mix of thermal energy and magma.
 
Last edited:
My bad i meant the manga chap
I read it on google drive, I will send you the link in your profile.

The argument isn't that massless energy can't interact with the ground. The fact is that Thermal energy can't via heat transfer. It would take a way longer time for any noticeable damage to occur. It is not thermal energy.
It sure did seem like that, I have seen people say here that "it doesn't have mass so how it did shake the ground and produce earthquakes like that". Alright then its not thermal energy, anyways there was no emission of energy from heated substance but rather consistent energy orb then yeah you can say its not even thermal energy.
I know that, but it definitely isn't thermal energy. We also see that the thing that Orochi pulled up caused displacement in the mantle and outer core, as well as the core itself. That means that something physical has had to been there to move it. It is not Orochi's tail because we see that the displacement is in the form of what Orochi dragged up.
I wasn't replying to anyone in particular with that. Not exactly, as I have said in the argument, energy is treated in such a way that it displaced physical matter of the core while it was pushed up, so it was either certainly treated like energy used for power in other anime causing physical disturbances or that maseless energy can indeed interact with the core, hence displacing it.
We aren't arguing about the Gaia Cannon itself, we are talking about the pull. As I've stated what Orochi pulled caused the earthquake that exploded. That is something thermal energy can't do in that timeframe.
And Gaia canon is result of that same energy orb which displaced the core and caused Earthquake on the surface absorbed by Orochi and released in the form of gaia canon, so they in fact are the same energy. Sure, you can say its not thermal energy but its still energy
How is there 0 evidence when it's literally in the manga. We see that in that the core is visibly changed after Orochi extracted it, meaning that something physical was moved. here
How is energy displacing the matter in the core structure proof that 2 quintillion tons was pulled by Orochi? Something physical being moved doesn't equate to some physical mass being pulled otherwise we would see that mass when Orochi absorbed the energy, which as you can see in the scan there is no evidence for mass of such amount being pulled.

Not all energy is massless but the energy that is being used here (In the new calc) is thermal energy, which is massless.

If what Orochi pulled was purely thermal energy, I have to ask does the thermal energy movement Orochi caused moves/transfer realistically? I'm no the brightest when it comes to science shit but thermal energy transfer would not behave or look that way.

There could be arguments made to say that Orochi is pulling neither thermal energy nor magma but some other energy.
I see, fair enough.

Nah, nothing like that since thermal energy is simply energy produced by heated objects so yeah it shouldn't result in such distortions on the surface, unless heat of such magnitude could do that.

Honestly, I dont even think its thermal energy seeing as how its being treated but it is a energy not mass being pulled for sure
 
Last edited:
And Gaia canon is result of that same energy orb which displaced the core and caused Earthquake on the surface absorbed by Orochi and released in the form of gaia canon, so they in fact are the same energy. Sure, you can say its not thermal energy but its still energy
The Gaia Cannon is not magma. It is not what Orochi pulled up. Orochi pulled up a part from the core, and compressed that and turned it into energy and shot it. That is what the Gaia Cannon is.
Something physical being moved doesn't equate to some physical mass being pulled otherwise we would see that mass when Orochi absorbed the energy, which as you can see in the scan there is no evidence for mass of such amount being pulled.
We can literally see a part of the core being pulled up. Then as a result of that, the core became deformed. People have already made this argument, so if you want to know more about it in-depth, scroll back. I'm not going to repeat what we've been saying all day.
it is a energy not mass being pulled for sure
It is part of the core.
 
Last edited:
For now, I disagree with the downgrades.

What Orochi pulled was likely not thermal energy as the panels do not illustrate the thermal energy transfer. The pull might not have been 100% magma but 100% thermal energy is far less likely than the former.

Seeing as Orochi's main gimmick is fire and there is clear physical displacement of Earth's layers. Until I hear another suggestion on what is being pulled, I personally believe that most of what he is pulling is magma/fire.
 
Last edited:
The Premise

The alternate calc in question

As pointed out a few times in other threads, Orochi likely does not actually pull actual mass from the core. He only mentions energy being pulled up and there's no indication that he swallowed 2 Quintillion tons of material or that he dragged that material at mach 3378. As such the linked calc is an alternate method of the feat. For quick access here's the ends I got
  • USK's Richter 6: 8.532038e+20 Joules or 203.92 Gigatons or High 6-C
  • USK's Richter 7: 2.22403e+22 Joules or 5.315 Teratons or Low 6-B+
  • USK's Richter 8: 6.98559e+23 Joules or 166.959 Teratons or High 6-B
  • DMUA's version: 4.45976e+24 Joules or 1.0659 Petatons or 6-A

What will happen if accepted
  • All of the Class Z ratings are removed
  • All of the Low 5-B ratings are removed
  • Orochi gets moved down to either 6-A or Low 6-B+ since those are the ends most people agree with
  • Neuron Psykos goes back to her old split striking strength and durability ratings, though they're modified to account for Orochi's higher tier
I agree
 
The Gaia Cannon is not magma. It is not what Orochi pulled up. Orochi pulled up a part from the core, and compressed that and turned it into energy and shot it. That is what the Gaia Cannon is.
Gaia canon is exactly the energy pulled up from the core, refer back to the scans. He says that he will go full power and use the energy of the Earth(energy of the core) and release it on Saitama which is what we see, gaia canon and nothing else. I didn't find any evidence that he pulled up any mass and then compress it and turned it into energy shooting gaia canon, no energy mass conversion happened. You can check the scans I listed again, nothing indicates that.
We can literally see a part of the core being pulled up. Then as a result of that, the core became deformed. People have already made this argument, so if you want to know more about it in-depth, scroll back. I'm not going to repeat what we've been saying all day.
Energy from the core(white orb) was pulled from the core and it made way to the surface which caused deformation of the core and its layer, I have seen it and there isn't any supporting scan to showcase part of the core being pulled, which my argument explictly deals with it.
It is mass.
Doesn't seem like the case

Seeing as Orochi's main gimmick is fire and there is clear physical displacement of Earth's layers. Until I hear a suggestion on what is being pulled, I personally believe that most of what he is pulling is magma/fire.
If fire is what is being pulled, it still results in different values then what the old calculation uses so the old Low 5-B calculation wouldn't work either way
 
My problem is, what energy? Like energy at least would have been drawn differently. Meanwhile it looks like the core.


Anyways here's my suggestion

Ahem

how about we get the original japanese scans and see if he actually said anything about energy? Translations get it wrong often so it might not even be energy
 
Energy from the core(white orb) was pulled from the core and it made way to the surface which caused deformation of the core and its layer, I have seen it and there isn't any supporting scan to showcase part of the core being pulled, which my argument explictly deals with it.
It looks exactly like the core of the earth. It is the same shape, drawn the same, and also it literally looks like Orochi is pulling out a part of it.
Doesn't seem like the case
It does lol. You're just refusing to accept the obvious for some unknown reason.
 
Anyways here's my suggestion

Ahem

how about we get the original japanese scans and see if he actually said anything about energy? Translations get it wrong often so it might not even be energy
We don't even need to do that. All we have to do is look at what Murata drew did, look at what bystanders said, understand that energy that comes from the core (thermal) can't cause the explosion that it did.
 
My problem is, what energy? Like energy at least would have been drawn differently. Meanwhile it looks like the core.
Its energy from the core, so it shouln't look so different, though I dont know what specific type of energy it is...
how about we get the original japanese scans and see if he actually said anything about energy? Translations get it wrong often so it might not even be energy
Sure, but the translation thread is kind of frozen so it would take too long, beside even if you leave Orochi's statement, you can still infer that its energy because of Orochi absorbing that energy and then using said energy in form of energy attack ie Gaia canon, the intent for it being energy is very clear to me, dont know why its not for other people.

It looks exactly like the core of the earth. It is the same shape, drawn the same, and also it literally looks like Orochi is pulling out a part of it.
Energy from core appears and drawn the same way like core is possible and sure it looks like he is pulling up portion of core, I admit it but its vs Orochi's statement, end result of energy being absorbed and then energy blast..the evidence is pointing towards energy rather than physical part of the core being pulled. Even if you want to ignore gaia canon, its still energy.
It does lol. You're just refusing to accept the obvious for some unknown reason.
I mean you should understand by now why I disagree with the "obvious", I have listed my reasons very clearly and not "I disagree but I will not explain why" so I am surprised how the reason is unknown but regardless..
 
I dont know what specific type of energy it is...
If you don't even know what type of energy it is, why are you arguing for it? The only energy it could possibly be is thermal energy. That would be consistent with Orochi's character since he seems to be flame based, but as we know, It is not thermal energy due to reasons that I have stated earlier. Unless you can tell me what type of energy it is, then we can't use it.
 
If you don't even know what type of energy it is, why are you arguing for it? The only energy it could possibly be is thermal energy. That would be consistent with Orochi's character since he seems to be flame based, but as we know, It is not thermal energy due to reasons that I have stated earlier. Unless you can tell me what type of energy it is, then we can't use it.
I know its a energy based on statements and how its depicated but not the type of the energy because my knowledge on energy not being too good, so I would need to research to see how it fits, the way its treated very much mirrors how energy from which any power is derived is treated in different series. Regardless of the type of energy, it is still a energy. Type comes after we figure out whether its a energy or not
 
I know its a energy based on statements and how its depicated but not the type of the energy because my knowledge on energy not being too good, so I would need to research to see how it fits, the way its treated very much mirrors how energy from which any power is derived is treated in different series. Regardless of the type of energy, it is still a energy. Type comes after we figure out whether its a energy or not
You clearly didn't hear what I said. The only type of energy it could be is thermal energy, which doesn't work. This means that Orochi can turn magma into blasts,
 
It doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to say that he can do that considering he can get energy from the core of the earth, and how he can also absorb lifeforms to become stronger as well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top