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One Piece Scaling, Some Upgrades and Some Downgrades as I see it.
- Thread starter KinkiestSins
- Start date
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- one piece
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If the one piece world was hypothetically larger then then sun, it would just simply be too long to develop any planetary civilization The fastest I can recall someone crossing in a small boat was Mihawk, he went from the east blue to probably back to the new world in around a few days, maybe a week or two. It is large, but not larger then the sun large.
And that is not taking into account it would be scientifically impossible but I digress.
And that is not taking into account it would be scientifically impossible but I digress.
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The size of the planet doesn't matter ATM, as you stated the results are too abnormally high so Lina,dontalk,cin dropped the subject until we get a more concrete statement or image of the one piece world.KinkiestSins said:
We should focus on the birdcage calc right now.
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Without the OP planet calc the upgrades are null and void so discussing what scales to the meteorite is pointless since its only 6-B with that calc.
Also where did they say they werent gonna use the calc?
Also where did they say they werent gonna use the calc?
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To those who are trying to downgrade the size of the OP planet, start showing proof via direct scans from the manga instead of arguing about what should have been the size of the planet etc.
Otherwise your thoughts on this subject are just conjectures, and they're worthless.
Otherwise your thoughts on this subject are just conjectures, and they're worthless.
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The birdcage calc is directly dependent on the kinetic energy of those meteors, which in turn, is directly dependent on the size of the One Piece planet. Thus, we have two choices for this scenario.
We accept the One Piece world as larger than our Sun? I thought that it was considerably larger, but that seems ridiculous. It would be completely impossible to travel from one part to another.
We have characters in One Piece who are able to throw down meteors from outer space at ridiculous speeds, and can move at Massively Hypersonic+, all they way up to lightspeed, and yet you complain about how people can't travel vast distances because it is unrealistic?
For all we know, those ships in One Piece can move at speeds much faster than what we think.
Also, if you are concerned with ridiculously inflated values because of the planet size, I made a note before that the planet's size and GBE does not, and will not matter until someone can actually destroy the entirety of the planet (or hints at doing so). No one in One Piece, as far as I know, is capable of doing this.
EDIT: We also consider calculated values to take priority over what the author's intentions are if the values directly contradict it. For example, we did this with
- Assume Earth-size for all planets, including Fairy Tail and One Piece planet sizes because a direct size for those planets have not been stated by the author.
- Use the planet size that was acquired by a calculation since the calculation was based on what was shown to us in the manga.
We accept the One Piece world as larger than our Sun? I thought that it was considerably larger, but that seems ridiculous. It would be completely impossible to travel from one part to another.
We have characters in One Piece who are able to throw down meteors from outer space at ridiculous speeds, and can move at Massively Hypersonic+, all they way up to lightspeed, and yet you complain about how people can't travel vast distances because it is unrealistic?
For all we know, those ships in One Piece can move at speeds much faster than what we think.
Also, if you are concerned with ridiculously inflated values because of the planet size, I made a note before that the planet's size and GBE does not, and will not matter until someone can actually destroy the entirety of the planet (or hints at doing so). No one in One Piece, as far as I know, is capable of doing this.
EDIT: We also consider calculated values to take priority over what the author's intentions are if the values directly contradict it. For example, we did this with
- Flash's speed being MFTL+ despite his speed being only stated to be Lightspeed.
- Elder God Demonbane being rated the way he is despite the author clearly stating otherwise.
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BANLK
but then why does he have this------------------------------------->
on his page
Gear 2nd and 3rd are considered as part of base Luffy
then its wrong and some 1 need to fix this
cause
in Attack Potency & Durability
Gear 4th luffy stronger than 3rd Gear luffy with haki
Gear 3rd luffy with haki stronger than Gear 2nd luffy with haki
Gear 2nd luffy with haki stronger than base luffy with haki
base luffy with haki stronger than base luffy without haki
but then why does he have this------------------------------------->
on his page
Gear 2nd and 3rd are considered as part of base Luffy
then its wrong and some 1 need to fix this
cause
in Attack Potency & Durability
Gear 4th luffy stronger than 3rd Gear luffy with haki
Gear 3rd luffy with haki stronger than Gear 2nd luffy with haki
Gear 2nd luffy with haki stronger than base luffy with haki
base luffy with haki stronger than base luffy without haki
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I mostly caught up on what is being said, and here's what I have to say:
1) I specifically listed the meteorites to be Environmental Destruction on Fujitora's part. He has the power to yank them down, but nothing suggests that he had the actual power to match the KE of any of those meteorites. The energy required to pull those meteorites into the atmosphere could not even compare to the Energy behind the meteorites as they fall.
2) The Meteorites scale DIRECTLY to Doflamingo's threads. It has hardly anything to do with "slicing the meteorites", but because of the fact that the bird-cage withstood the impact of those meteorites--the largest two being Country level in KE, it scales to Doflamingo's AP because, even if you want to suggest that his threads are weaker than his Bird Cage (which is extremely unrealistic due to the fact that 6-C AP suggests his threads are roughly <.01% of the durability of millions of threads he threw out with a flick of his wrist, and could remotely control while in the heat of combat) He would still scale.
3) As a result, Luffy in Gear 4th directly scales to Doflamingo's threads since he could snap several at once by flexing, and busted through some of his threads with a head-butt. He also used King Kong Gun to shatter Kumonosugaki and God Thread, which is supposed to be Doflamingo's Ace in the hole and finishing attack. You can't tell me he threw out an attack with threads <.01% of the power his Bird Cage has. That's ridiculous.
4) Base~Gear 3rd for AP is kept as "Base" on Luffy's profile due to the negligible difference in AP presented during his fight with Doflamingo. Also, Luffy's durability does not change when in Gear 2nd or even 3rd. Nothing implies as much, whereas Gear 4th explicitly shows the difference in durability with both variations as compared to Base.
5) I know the scaling is messed up, and was trying to work on fixing it while simultaneously dealing with numerous attacks from wankers and downplayers trying to tell me what's what, and other people who saw the upgrades "accepted" started flying off the handle for the first two hours, and I was trying to backtrack and adjust profiles accordingly, but when I realized it was going all wrong, I opened a thread to discuss it, but as expected, that one was de-railed immediately. Questions already answered being spammed over and over again.
1) I specifically listed the meteorites to be Environmental Destruction on Fujitora's part. He has the power to yank them down, but nothing suggests that he had the actual power to match the KE of any of those meteorites. The energy required to pull those meteorites into the atmosphere could not even compare to the Energy behind the meteorites as they fall.
2) The Meteorites scale DIRECTLY to Doflamingo's threads. It has hardly anything to do with "slicing the meteorites", but because of the fact that the bird-cage withstood the impact of those meteorites--the largest two being Country level in KE, it scales to Doflamingo's AP because, even if you want to suggest that his threads are weaker than his Bird Cage (which is extremely unrealistic due to the fact that 6-C AP suggests his threads are roughly <.01% of the durability of millions of threads he threw out with a flick of his wrist, and could remotely control while in the heat of combat) He would still scale.
3) As a result, Luffy in Gear 4th directly scales to Doflamingo's threads since he could snap several at once by flexing, and busted through some of his threads with a head-butt. He also used King Kong Gun to shatter Kumonosugaki and God Thread, which is supposed to be Doflamingo's Ace in the hole and finishing attack. You can't tell me he threw out an attack with threads <.01% of the power his Bird Cage has. That's ridiculous.
4) Base~Gear 3rd for AP is kept as "Base" on Luffy's profile due to the negligible difference in AP presented during his fight with Doflamingo. Also, Luffy's durability does not change when in Gear 2nd or even 3rd. Nothing implies as much, whereas Gear 4th explicitly shows the difference in durability with both variations as compared to Base.
5) I know the scaling is messed up, and was trying to work on fixing it while simultaneously dealing with numerous attacks from wankers and downplayers trying to tell me what's what, and other people who saw the upgrades "accepted" started flying off the handle for the first two hours, and I was trying to backtrack and adjust profiles accordingly, but when I realized it was going all wrong, I opened a thread to discuss it, but as expected, that one was de-railed immediately. Questions already answered being spammed over and over again.
- I will gladly take advise on how to scale characters accordingly, as I do believe some like Lao G and Chinjao should remain 7-A, but I am on the fence on if Zoro and Sanji should scale to 6-B due to Sanji's feats against Doflamingo and Base Luffy.
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I agree with Cin, also to the people who said to stop derailing the thread with the Whitebeard feat that was "debunked", that feat used our planet as an assumption which is no longer the case so now it needs to be redone with the calc were currently using for the OP planet.
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@Radical - to be honest, I doubt that we should do a calculation based on that feat as 1) using the entire planet will result in a massive outlier even if we use 4.0 earthquakes, and 2) If we did it based on the distance between Marineford and the island shown affected, we wouldn't know the distance at all. We'd only be able to assume, which is what the original calculation did.
Even using Meteorite Impact (only option really) using the entire planet would be insanely high.
I'd prefer playing the "waiting game" for Oda to provide more feats, and if we get anything massive, I'll happily support a revision of WB's feat using the planet size itself.
Even using Meteorite Impact (only option really) using the entire planet would be insanely high.
I'd prefer playing the "waiting game" for Oda to provide more feats, and if we get anything massive, I'll happily support a revision of WB's feat using the planet size itself.
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Ok, that seems fair.
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Okay this is going to be a doozy so here we go.
The Meteorites scale DIRECTLY to Doflamingo's threads. It has hardly anything to do with "slicing the meteorites", but because of the fact that the bird-cage withstood the impact of those meteorites--the largest two being Country level in KE, it scales to Doflamingo's AP because, even if you want to suggest that his threads are weaker than his Bird Cage (which is extremely unrealistic due to the fact that 6-C AP suggests his threads are roughly <.01% of the durability of millions of threads he threw out with a flick of his wrist, and could remotely control while in the heat of combat) He would still scale.
No that's not how it works cin, the only way for the bird cage to even scale to the meteors was if the bird cage no sold the meteor, slicing through something requires much less energy to do sosince the area is smaller and thus less force to cut. Not to mention the fact that the birdcage was so sharp it didn't even slow down the meteors but divided the KE into those 7 pieces. To give you a close IRL example of this check this video out of a [butter knife being able to cut through a bullet].
As a result, Luffy in Gear 4th directly scales to Doflamingo's threads since he could snap several at once by flexing, and busted through some of his threads with a head-butt. He also used King Kong Gun to shatter Kumonosugaki and God Thread, which is supposed to be Doflamingo's Ace in the hole and finishing attack. You can't tell me he threw out an attack with threads <.01% of the power his Bird Cage has. That's ridiculous.
First of all again, we don't know the exact durability of the bird cages thread so you can't use reasoning like that cause that's what got us into that mess in the first place. Characters can have attacks that are millions of times greater than a characters normal output, an example would Nagato with this chibaku tensei.
The Meteorites scale DIRECTLY to Doflamingo's threads. It has hardly anything to do with "slicing the meteorites", but because of the fact that the bird-cage withstood the impact of those meteorites--the largest two being Country level in KE, it scales to Doflamingo's AP because, even if you want to suggest that his threads are weaker than his Bird Cage (which is extremely unrealistic due to the fact that 6-C AP suggests his threads are roughly <.01% of the durability of millions of threads he threw out with a flick of his wrist, and could remotely control while in the heat of combat) He would still scale.
No that's not how it works cin, the only way for the bird cage to even scale to the meteors was if the bird cage no sold the meteor, slicing through something requires much less energy to do sosince the area is smaller and thus less force to cut. Not to mention the fact that the birdcage was so sharp it didn't even slow down the meteors but divided the KE into those 7 pieces. To give you a close IRL example of this check this video out of a [butter knife being able to cut through a bullet].
As a result, Luffy in Gear 4th directly scales to Doflamingo's threads since he could snap several at once by flexing, and busted through some of his threads with a head-butt. He also used King Kong Gun to shatter Kumonosugaki and God Thread, which is supposed to be Doflamingo's Ace in the hole and finishing attack. You can't tell me he threw out an attack with threads <.01% of the power his Bird Cage has. That's ridiculous.
First of all again, we don't know the exact durability of the bird cages thread so you can't use reasoning like that cause that's what got us into that mess in the first place. Characters can have attacks that are millions of times greater than a characters normal output, an example would Nagato with this chibaku tensei.
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^This. Just stop using random assumptions/headcanon and use facts..
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@Grudge - This isn't really an argument for anything, but the gap between each of the threads is roughly 10cm (should be less towards the top since they close into the center, obviously). The meteorite was shown in chunks, but given the gap between each slice, it should've been a stack of paper at that point.
Of course Slicing requires less energy than crushing, but the bird cage withstood a few meteorites of that size without being stressed or moved, let alone damaged by the impact. If the KE was carried over after passing through the cage, wouldn't there be a deep crater running into the ground, rather than the meteorite stopping in place? Meteorites falling at normal speeds would not just stop after hitting the ground like that. The meteorite KE was dropped to almost nothing at that point. Even the anime (I don't like bringing secondary canon into this) depicts the one meteorite hitting the cage and stopping before passing through and being sliced apart, suggesting the cage withstood the impact before just cutting the object to pieces.
I hope that doesn't seem very stupid for me to say, but if the meteorite was shown causing a small amount of distruction after carrying the KE it did, it must have been canceled out as soon as it hit the cage, and the cage just let it slide through and dropped it onto the ground.
Of course Slicing requires less energy than crushing, but the bird cage withstood a few meteorites of that size without being stressed or moved, let alone damaged by the impact. If the KE was carried over after passing through the cage, wouldn't there be a deep crater running into the ground, rather than the meteorite stopping in place? Meteorites falling at normal speeds would not just stop after hitting the ground like that. The meteorite KE was dropped to almost nothing at that point. Even the anime (I don't like bringing secondary canon into this) depicts the one meteorite hitting the cage and stopping before passing through and being sliced apart, suggesting the cage withstood the impact before just cutting the object to pieces.
I hope that doesn't seem very stupid for me to say, but if the meteorite was shown causing a small amount of distruction after carrying the KE it did, it must have been canceled out as soon as it hit the cage, and the cage just let it slide through and dropped it onto the ground.
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The downplay in this thread is next level unreal...
It's absurd downplay to call Issho's meteors environmental destruction. Every other meteor feat from Irene to Madara is considered attack potency.
Frankly calling anything "environmental destruction" is absurd unless it's outright stated or explicitly shown to only effect the environment like Irene's High 6-B universe-one feat.
This thread should be closed.
Lina Shields said:
Grudgeman1706 said:
The OP planet size not being accepted is flat out wrong. These upgrades were agreed upon by multiple staff members and members of the calculation team. Now one staff member and non-staff are attempting to downgrade One Piece while providing zero evidence for the downgrades.Grudgeman1706 said:
It's absurd downplay to call Issho's meteors environmental destruction. Every other meteor feat from Irene to Madara is considered attack potency.
Frankly calling anything "environmental destruction" is absurd unless it's outright stated or explicitly shown to only effect the environment like Irene's High 6-B universe-one feat.
This thread should be closed.
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@Doc - i believe they are discussing the version where we tried to base the planet by Atmosphere depth, but it was wrong, so i directly scaled Grand-line to Reverse Mountain, and got the Diameter of the planet from there.
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@DocanimeTheory, very mature of you to say something so arbitrarily pointless, criticizing me and my points isn't going to help your argument one bit. The fact you have neither addressed nor countered my arguments is just showing me and others really that you are doing nothing but merely pointless wanking and providing no help what's so ever with this thread. You should just leave this thread alone if I were you
FYI you'd best watch your tone when speaking with a staff member.
FYI you'd best watch your tone when speaking with a staff member.
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No, they are saying the OP planet should be Earth size. Now i see how LordAizenSama got confused.CinCameron20 said:
LordAizenSama said:
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Lina had to correct the record about you saying he rejected the OP planet calculation. I addressed one of your main arguments so i don't know what you're talking about.Grudgeman1706 said:
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I think that CinCameron20 seems to make sense.
However, I still think that the author simply made a mistake when he zoomed out from the lake, and that the boats of the One Piece world are not generally shown as being particularly swift to allow travelling distances anywhere near as great as the Sun.
We have to consider this as an outlier given the context of everything else that we have been shown in the series concerning travel available for regular characters.
It is one thing to consider explicit feats as greater than intended, but for the size of an comprehensively designed setting, we should preferably go with consistency and the intentions of an author, at least for scaling of diffuse and contradicted clarity such as this.
However, I still think that the author simply made a mistake when he zoomed out from the lake, and that the boats of the One Piece world are not generally shown as being particularly swift to allow travelling distances anywhere near as great as the Sun.
We have to consider this as an outlier given the context of everything else that we have been shown in the series concerning travel available for regular characters.
It is one thing to consider explicit feats as greater than intended, but for the size of an comprehensively designed setting, we should preferably go with consistency and the intentions of an author, at least for scaling of diffuse and contradicted clarity such as this.
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@Antvasima
We are no longer scaling from the zoomed out lake. Which is how i believe LordAizenSama first got confused.
It has been accepted by Lina, DontTalk, and Cin.
We are no longer scaling from the zoomed out lake. Which is how i believe LordAizenSama first got confused.
It has been accepted by Lina, DontTalk, and Cin.
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@Ant - He scaled it from using the Mariejoe side while the globe almost certainly displayed the side with Reverse Mountain due to East Blue's scale being somewhat visible on the top right side. As i response, i scaled the grand line to a map with Reverse Mountain on it, and scaled it to one of the more recent globes shown, which is where i got the ~1.8million km diameter.
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I am going to be blunt: The planet being assumed Earth Size is absolutely ridiculous considering the view of Alabasta shows a small amount of the surface area of the planet. Alabasta is larger than Australia... Alabasta is like an ant in the panel it is showed in. If we were to assume the planet to be Earth-sized, that would completely inconsistent with not only that chapter, but also everything shown from map panels or globe views, or even the East Blue map (which honestly doesn't have a scale, unfortunately.
If OP world = Earth in size, or even 10 times the size of Earth, The Grand Line wouldn't just be covering a slither of ocean, but Alabasta alone would be taking up a large portion of the landmass.
If OP world = Earth in size, or even 10 times the size of Earth, The Grand Line wouldn't just be covering a slither of ocean, but Alabasta alone would be taking up a large portion of the landmass.
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- Thread starter
- #236
@Cin Is it possible to scale the size from gravitational forces?
Most Rocky Planets have one or two moons, and generally speaking the larger a spacial object is, the more satellites/planets it has. Take Mars, which have two small moons and jupiter, which has tens of moons. We do know there it at least 5 moons from Oharan model of the planet (and considering their status as scholars, I have to assume this is indeed accurate)
That might provide a more accurate scale.
Most Rocky Planets have one or two moons, and generally speaking the larger a spacial object is, the more satellites/planets it has. Take Mars, which have two small moons and jupiter, which has tens of moons. We do know there it at least 5 moons from Oharan model of the planet (and considering their status as scholars, I have to assume this is indeed accurate)
That might provide a more accurate scale.
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@Ant - the comment of him "world busting" is hyperbolic, of course, and we don't know how far the island was that he affected with his quake powers. We can never assume it to be planetary unless we're shown someone applying a comparable feat, or see Whitebeard in his prime actually display something of the sort. That's why I'd like to wait before anyone tries to calc him "shaking the planet" when that's instant tier 5 right there, and we've only got a 6-B feat, and an Enel feat on a moon that is hardly comparable to that.
For all that we've seen, we can't even assume that WB's shockwaves went over 1,000km since we don't have a clue where the island effected is, and the only calculation done assumed that it was at the very least as far as Amazon Lily (which was also assumed using normal ship speeds and the time it took for them to get to Impel Down).
The original calculation was based off of assumptions from the start, and we would do no better without missing the mark by several tiers.
@Kinkiest - It doesn't really work that way, and due to the planet being as large as it is, it should be easier for several moons (i count 7, last time I looked) to be trapped in its gravity, even with Earth gravity.
For all that we've seen, we can't even assume that WB's shockwaves went over 1,000km since we don't have a clue where the island effected is, and the only calculation done assumed that it was at the very least as far as Amazon Lily (which was also assumed using normal ship speeds and the time it took for them to get to Impel Down).
The original calculation was based off of assumptions from the start, and we would do no better without missing the mark by several tiers.
@Kinkiest - It doesn't really work that way, and due to the planet being as large as it is, it should be easier for several moons (i count 7, last time I looked) to be trapped in its gravity, even with Earth gravity.
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@Ant - I believe that was intent on it being a desert island with a large river in the center, but given that Vivi stated it to be 50km in width for the river (this is further supported in the next pages when we see that it takes them an hour to cross from left to right), that further supports the size of Alabasta being what we've currently accepted it at. The fact that we can not see entire cities from a view immediately above the island helps support the size of the island being over 3k km by length and width.
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