One Piece Scaling, Some Upgrades and Some Downgrades as I see it.

[KinkiestSins]

I am making this post for Funsies and I know this is probably been beaten to death and I see a lot of posts on this on this wiki.

I just wanted to write this post and get my opinion on there.

Lets keep this simple, One Piece power scaling is horrendous at the moment, mostly due to the new upgrades.

A LOT of small country busters for no reason other then, hey they are weaker then luffy, lets put them in the next tier under!

I like to credit a lot of this to Oda being the type of author to surprise us with new things and he doesn't account for many things such as scaling (love him to death, but he does make these one off moments that look cool, but make it hard to scale the series especially recently imo)

I am sure some people will agree with my above statements or just straight up disagree and that is totally fine. That is discussion.

But here is how I scale one piece.

Doflamingo got 6-B because of this calc right here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:CinCameron20/Massive_Fujitora_Meteorites

His threads was able to cut a super big meteor, awesome af. I am fine with this. The problem is scaling this with most other characters.

There is a lot of small country busters right now in one piece. I am not sure why, but it seems like to me because it was just best to put them in tier below.

So with that in mind, lets start with the 'Solid 6-Bs'

Luffy easily scales off Doflamingo, he was able to defeat him as well as Law. All Yonko and Admirals scale off him. Since the Yonko and Admirals are stronger, we can say that they are at least 6-B

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6lnwLDNQJs


Watch this video at 2:05, it shows that Sengoku stated himself if any prisoner in level 6 would be a threat to a country's people. This seems consistent with this feat since Doflamingo was going to be taken to impel down and country seems to be a convenient word with our current scaling with one piece.

http://*********.com/Manga/One-Piece/One-Piece---581?id=320005#16


Manga panel as well


The Three Commanders and Vergo however throw a wrench in the mix.

Before, they were all in the 7-A range, mountain level. Now, they are all small country.

I think the tier was fine before.

The gap between Doflamingo and the other commanders was pretty big. Sanji almost got killed by Doflamingo and would have died if Law didn't intervene.

Two, Vergo and Smoker were able to trade blows with eachother, but Smoker also later got one shotted by Doflamingo for the most part. (at least to our knowledge, since Doflamingo doesn't have a scratch on him and Smoker is all bloodied up, we can assume that this match was fairly one sided.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqRz9wUbhrc


I am too lazy to find the manga chapter for the fight, but here is the manga chapter for getting 'one shotted'

http://*********.com/Manga/One-Piece/One-Piece---698?id=320295#9


Three, Law oneshotted Trebol pretty easily, but lost to Doflamingo twice. We can probably assume at this point that most of the commanders are far weaker then Doflamingo is.

I think the Likely 7-A for the commanders is fine. This scales off of Zoro and Sanji. Before he was likely 7-A because Zoro hasn't used Asura yet at least to my knowledge, someone can correct me on this.

So Three Commanders, Vergo, Zoro and Sanji are 7-A, I think personally this is a solid 7-A reasoning, but I am fine with the status of them before which was Likely 7-A

Franky got City Level because he was able to compete against Baby 5, Buffalo and Senor Pink. He is still this on the vs wiki and I think that is fine. Scaling this off to Robin and Brook as well for one assumption.

If Zoro, Sanji and Luffy are the monster trio and Nami, Chopper and Ussop are the weakling trio, the above three scale off eachother most likely.

Also, if we accept this. It is fairly consistent. Robin was able to stop Cavendish/Hakuba, who one shotted Delinger. We didn't see brook fight this arc for long, but he did defeat Jola in one hit and Franky beat Senor Pink, so the all were comparable to the Commanders in strength.

Yonko and 3 Admirals: At Least Country Level, likely Higher (They are all superior to Doflamingo)

Doflamingo, Luffy and Law: Country Level

Cracker, Smoothie and Katakuri (Might as well bring him up here): Country Level, He did keep up with Gear Fourth Luffy, I think all major commanders in the yonko will probably scale to Likely Country Level as well.

Marco: At Least Country Level (He was stated to be able to possibly stop blackbeard and tbh, he didn't 'lose' to kizaru. He got caught off guard and was put sea prism handcuffs on by a vice admiral. He kicked Kizaru back and stopped Akainu for a brief period of time. Not sure if this is anime exclusive, but he also kicked back Aokiji so I think the evidence for him being at least country level is pretty high.

Jozu: Likely Country Level (He was defeated by Aokiji and stopped by Doflamingo, but I think this still merits a likely country level since he was competitive against Aokiji for a brief period of time.)

Vista: Vista is interesting. He should be Likely Country Level since he fought against Mihawk who was a rival to shanks. I honestly however can't just say "hey lets say he is solidly countrybuster." Mostly because rank wise, he is the fifth division commander and is 'lower' then ace.

Someone told me that the ranks in Whitebeards crew were more just a position then Marco is one, Ace is two, Jozu is three etc. I think Likely Country Level fits as well. But if you don't agree with this reasoning, then he is probably either just a country buster or not one.

Jack: Likely Country Level, despite being one shotted by Zushina, still probably in this tier. (Really Oda?)

Level 6 Prisoners: Possibly Country Level, Likely Country Level if they fought anyone above for a brief period of time. This scales to Ace, Jinbei and Crocodile.

Sabo is interesting, but I think he should be upgraded to at least country level, He did fight against base Fujitora and he is second in command compared to Dragon.

With that reasoning

Dragon: Is there such a thing as Likely at Least Country Level? Sabo is about as strong as Fujitora so we can assume the same for dragon. If not, then Likely Country Level will do fine

Zoro, Sanji, 3 Commanders for Doflamingo: Mountain Level, same as before. I think the gap between the five and Doflamingo is too great for anything in tier 6 as a whole.

Robin, Franky, Brook and the other 9 commanders: Likely City Level, only because Franky is and I am not sure why he is scaled this way. But outlining the reasons above, I think this makes sense.

You are probably thinking

"Damn, that is a lot of country busters."

Yeah, scaling is a bitch.

And if you don't agree with any of this circular reasoning, then we have one easy solution.

Only scale 6-B Doflamingo with birdcage/awakening and luffy and we can change everyone back to their old versions.

Or we can just say 'lol one piece has a lot of country busters'

The only reason why I made this post is to validate some rankings I agree with and to make changes to ones that might just be wanks.


This is also my first big post, so please be gentle. I am more interested in the discussion then my line of reasoning.

Because is everyone really okay with this many small country busters?

Edit: I am going to be after this, wake up to see this post shattered to hell/debunked or approved, I don't care. I had a long night with some homework.

Also not going to do any speed revisions, I think most are fine as is.

 

[Franciscuu]

i wanted to do the same discussion but now you did it and I agree its dumb that someone like apoo or kidd are 6b or low 6b it makes no sense at all.

 

[Bepo4151]

This seems fine but im not sure about Zoro and Sanji. Zoro fought Fujitora and Sanji was doinng well against Doffy until he got cought in Parasito.

 

[Utenok123]

country levels for everyone fodder like Killer Kapone etc. Need fix.

Sanji Zoro - dont now.

 

[-BANLK-]

Also didn't Chinjao split an ice Continent?

 

[RoyGundam]

This seems fine. I also had issues with Zoro and Sanji getting country level out of nowhere.

BTW Jack wasn't actually KOed by Zuneisha. Rather, his ships were destroyed, leaving him unable to move at the bottom of the ocean. So that is consistent with an island level (?) Zuneisha

 

[Franciscuu]

Also didn't Chinjao split an ice Continent?

in this wiki it was stated that this was a hyperbolic statement like with the statement that whitebeard could destroy the one piece world

 

[RoyGundam]

Whitebeard destroying the One Piece world would be a 5-A feat at least and possibly a 4-C feat considering the size of their world, so that is clearly still hyperbole, but, now that we have a bunch of Country busters, maybe Whitebeard's continental calc could be used ??

 

[Blanked]

Continental calc was debunked so it can't be used...

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I will notify LordAizenSama and Cin to this thread.

 

[RoyGundam]

Continental Calc was not "debunked". It was counted as an outlier because no one else was nearly close enough to that level in One Piece.

But now we have Country level and higher folks

 

[Blanked]

Continental Calc was not "debunked". It was counted as an outlier because no one else was nearly close enough to that level in One Piece.

But now we have Country level and higher folks

Nope Gwynbleiddd calculated it and it was accepted as large island you can ask Lord Aizen about it.

I think the problem was in the fact his earthquakes are different.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I have sent a message to Aizen and Cin.

 

[RoyGundam]

@William Calcing the "Earthquake" as an actual earthquake would have given Continental stats to Whitebeard (which makes sense considering WB's DF ability) but since it made no sense considering everyone else was Island level at best (at the time) the Large Island calc - which was based on something else was used

 

[RoyGundam]

Here is the calc, and if you scroll down, the second comment itself shows that it could be a Continent level feat but it was discarded because of what @Ant said

 

[-BANLK-]

Well Devil fruits are similar to their elements most of the time.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am willing to reevaluate Whitebeard, now that there is a much higher feat available.

 

[Frozone54666]

Zoro and sanji aren't that far in strength to luffy, especially Zoro, luffy wouldn't be able to beat Zoro without his gear 4 so Zoro shouldn't be that far behind

 

[KinkiestSins]

To keep it simple and not dance around the issue. In hindsight, Zoro and Sanji might be 'upgraged' in the new post For those two only, I think at least Mountain Level, likely higher is where I place them at. I did ask Cin where he might place lesser gears and I think that is probably where sanji and zoro would have their upper limit For constency sake. Also, i want to state all super novas imo should probably be best left at Unknown. The only reason is we know little about most post timeskip. The only exception is Law obviously and maybe Capone after this arc. I think that is fair for the most part.

 

[CinCameron20]

Okay, the problem with the scaling is that, since Chinjao--as an example--could put up a fight against Luffy, I believed that he would fall under Low 6-B or even higher considering that this wiki clealy shows that something like a 6-C vs 6-B wouldn't even be a fight.

However, since Chinjao was practically wrecked by Luffy, we can place him as a lower tier. I do NOT want to rely on his "Island level calc" since it is full of assumptions (The Ice continent being comparable to Alabasta when we can not suggest that).

That's why I made the other thread, because I was uncertain what we should do with lower tier characters, since 7-B ~ 6-B is pretty VAST.

Considering Vergo was kicking Law's butt and harming him with punches and kicks, it made sense to scale at least him to something close to his tier, but given that it was mainly PIS, and that he was simply crushing Law's heart in his hand for the majority of the damage and to weaken him, I can see the argument of the high executives NOT scaling, and as a result, Zoro and Sanji would not scale either.

It just seems strange for Zoro and Sanji to be Tier 7, but I guess we don't really have anything to help that.

So would it look something like this:

Top: At least 6-B

High: 6-B

Upper-mid: Likely 7-A, potentially higher (Zoro's feat without Asura being 80+MT, and that it is strange for him and Sanji to be <<<<<<<< Base Luffy)

Mid: 7-B

does this work with everyone?

 

[Antvasima]

Sanji severely damaged base Luffy, so we can scale from that at least.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Ant - We talked about it already, and it may have been plot-induced since Luffy was sitting there taking the beating. LAS seemed to agree that it was due to plot, especially since Luffy was just fine after ... drinking milk (he regenerated his tooth in a gag scene with Brook).

Unless everyone else agrees that Sanji and Zoro should be tier 6 by some regard (Zoro DID defeat Pica with ease... he only struggled due to his lack of directional sense, and that Pica kept hiding inside of the stone. Pica also landed a punch on Zoro with his stone golem, but it didn't even hurt him.)

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I personally doubt that they are more than one tier below Luffy, but I am not well-versed in the exact scaling mechanics in this case.

 

[CinCameron20]

Personally, I think that to make it easier (and that a bunch of mid tiers don't scale to Tier 6), we should only scale characters to others if they actually can consistently hurt a character of a specific tier. Examples of both cases:

No scaling:

Chinjao vs Luffy --> Chinjao never really did anything to Luffy, and he was practically one-shot once Luffy actually started taking the fight seriously. Chinjao would drop down to Tier 7-A for being capable of beating Executives of the Donqui Pirates, and scaling to Pica, since he and Elizabello broke Pica's arm when he was trying to attack them.

Sanji vs Doflamingo --> While Sanji was complimented for his strength, others suggest that it is inconsistent since Doflamingo called Luffy's attacks weak, and Sanji was being manhandled by Doflamingo, and was never shown actually doing anything to cause Doflamingo strain. He was about to be one-shot with no resistance once Doflamingo gave him his undivided attention.

Scaling:

Luffy (in Base) vs Doflamingo --> Luffy tanked hits from Doflamingo, and was capable of actually doing some damage to him with punches and kicks. Red Hawk is the best example, though Doflamingo was caught off guard. It wouldn't make sense for a High 7-A character to be running around tanking hits from a tier 6-B character who was intent on killing him, even if the fight was one-sided.

Perhaps Sanji from Wholecake would scale closer to Luffy than in Dressrosa, but I do find that scene to be PIS, especially with Luffy taking the beating.

 

[Frozone54666]

Sanji is definitely stronger then base luffy so it doesn't contradict anything, it makes sense that sanji was able to knock luffy out, luffy isn't that far ahead of sanji and Zoro

 

[CinCameron20]

@Frozone - Luffy stood there and let Sanji wail on him.

 

[Frozone54666]

So if a 6-b character stands still and doesn't defend himself then a 7-a character can knock him unconscious with like 4 hits?

 

[CinCameron20]

@Frozone - considering how Luffy was perfectly fine after a bottle of milk in a gag scene, and that Luffy was not even using haki to cushion Sanji's kicks, and that heat from Sanji's Diable Jambe ignores durability to an extent, of course he'd knock him out... but yes, 7-A~6-B is a massive gap and is inexcusable, so I guess Sanji and Zoro might as well stay where they are right now for consistency.

Downgrades for Chinjao and Lao G seem very necessary, though...

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

We also have to consider the "Just because it make sense doesn't mean it is correct." Just because it would make sense to has Zoro and Sanjo be 7-A. We also got to factor in other things. Based on what you've said it seems that Luffy let Sanji hurt him. Something that is possible for any character to do once they let their guard down. I could simply be PIS. Plus we have fiction where characters who it would make sense to scale to another are not scaled to one another. Heck we have characters like Bayonetta who hurt a 3-A character and is only 5-A. Kakashi aided in the fight with Kaguya but is only High 6-C. See what I mean?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Of course I'm just reading through the context given here.

 

[Frozone54666]

It's not even about making sense, we know for a "fact" that sanji and Zoro are stronger then base luffy so at a minimum they should have the same rating as base luffy, luffy with gear 3 could only break picas head whereas zoro who wasn't even going all out cut picas entire body, luffy in gear 2 barely hurt that fish swordsman guy whereas Zoro with his regular attacks beat the same fishman guy except he was 100x stronger then when luffy punched him because he ate steroids that made him stronger,and each steroid doubles your strength and he ate like 50+, this without a doubt proves that Zoro > gear 2 luffy and thus Zoro > base luffy

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Except Luffy has always been High 7-A here while Zoro was around 7-B to 7-A...

 

[Joseph619]

There's no way Base Luffy > Zoro. Zoro one shotted Pica with far less effort than Luffy and hasn't even gone full power yet unlike Luffy who has exhausted himself multiple times.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

But of course I may be wrong. I kinda agree with the OP and Cin's first suggestion because going from 7-A to suddenly Low 6-B seems off. And just like a HUGE buff all of a sudden.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

There's no way Base Luffy > Zoro. Zoro one shotted Pica with far less effort than Luffy and hasn't even gone full power yet unlike Luffy who has exhausted himself multiple times.

I'm going by what the files were like before this whole upgrade shtick happened.

 

[Frozone54666]

That's wrong then, Zoro should have been high 7-a

 

[Joseph619]

There's no way Base Luffy > Zoro. Zoro one shotted Pica with far less effort than Luffy and hasn't even gone full power yet unlike Luffy who has exhausted himself multiple times.

I'm going by what the files were like before this whole upgrade shtick happened.

The files are not useful here at all, we have to read the story to get the context behind scaling. Base Luffy has never, ever been shown much stronger than Zoro or Sanji, especially Zoro even in Dressrosa Arc. If Base Luffy gets 6-B Zoro gets that too by default. Or whatever rating base Luffy gets, Zoro scales automatically. Base Luffy being much stronger than Zoro is absolute nonsense. Sanji put up better fight against Doflamingo than Base Luffy, so same goes for Sanji as well

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Based on the events both the OP and Cin described. Neither Sanji or Zoro did much to Doflamingo unlike Luffy.

"While Sanji was complimented for his strength, others suggest that it is inconsistent since Doflamingo called Luffy's attacks weak, and Sanji was being manhandled by Doflamingo, and was never shown actually doing anything to cause Doflamingo strain. He was about to be one-shot with no resistance once Doflamingo gave him his undivided attention."

"Luffy tanked hits from Doflamingo, and was capable of actually doing some damage to him with punches and kicks. Red Hawk is the best example, though Doflamingo was caught off guard. It wouldn't make sense for a High 7-A character to be running around tanking hits from a tier 6-B character who was intent on killing him, even if the fight was one-sided."

 

[Joseph619]

Luffy never tried hitting Doflamingo in base, he needed immense help from Law to even challenge Doflamingo in Gear 4. Doflamingo was severely weakened because of his fight with Law who had hit him with lethal injection shots. Base Luffy is in no way superior to Zoro or Sanji, otherwise Luffy would've obliterated Pica.

You have to read the manga to know context of story. Luffy being stronger than Zoro in base is absolute nonsense, it would be same as Krillin being stronger than Frieza. We're talking about base here, not the gears. Also, Gear 4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> base Luffy

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I am simply going by what Cin said. Especially since he was the one behind the OP upgrades in the first place. And honestly I find this scaling very suspect.