• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

One Piece: Sanji's Enhanced Speed

Status
Not open for further replies.
Luffy calling a laser slow and precogging it with obs haki from a far away distance isn’t exactly the same as fighting someone in close quarters. Not that I disagree with the calc, I just disagree with that moron.
 
Kachon123 said:
Let's not derail with bringing up Sabaody Luffy's feat.
Click to expand...
It ain't derailing. Its to prove Queen has LS reactions. Also didn't Ray state that good kenbu users can react to light?
Arc7Kuroi said:
Luffy calling a laser slow and precogging it with obs haki from a far away distance isn’t exactly the same as fighting someone in close quarters. Not that I disagree with the calc, I just disagree with that moron.
Click to expand...
Its been accepted before. But the validity isn't that important, it does make for good supporting evidence imo.
 
Damage3245 said:
And it does seem extremely weird for an FTL+ Sanji (who you'd expect would have reactions that fast too, right?) to be hit by a lightspeed attack that he can plainly see coming at him. Sanji can move over twelve times faster than Queen, but couldn't move a couple meters out of the way while Queen's head was travelling 6+ meters towards him?
Click to expand...
Because he’s stuck in the air… he moves slower in the air (that is even shown with Sanji and niji) Sanji can’t fly
1034-004.png
1034-005.png
 
Duedate8898 said:
I will say since I'm the one who started all of this, I figured the reason why the calc might not be useable was because we try to be strict about giving out stuff like lightspeed reactions to help keep speed from getting out of control. So we normally only award them when statements are given, and having lightspeed attack isn't enough to then assume a character has lightspeed reactions in regards to calcing. If I'm wrong on that front, apologies for starting all of this, I just thought the standards were different.
Click to expand...
So this may be a case similar to calc-stacking then?
 
Antvasima said:
So this may be a case similar to calc-stacking then?
Click to expand...
Would it really be Calc stacking though if the whole light speed stuff is accepted here? At least that's what I'm getting from this conversation, that the light speed Henry Blazer stuff or whatever was accepted.
 
Generally using superhuman reactions for calcs this way is a pretty shakey territory IMO. But on the other hand it does make sense on a logical level. I don't really know how I'd handle this, sorry.
 
I think the same as Duedate8898, if we were to assume that every character faster than Luffy has enough evidence to get SoL reactions, things will spiral out of control real quick.

Queen by himself doesn't have the statements needed for this assumptions either.
 
IMO since Queen lacks actual statements of being able to react to light (the argument is that he can react to his own lightspeed attack), I think it’s a bit shaky to assume LS reactions to upgrade Sanji in this instance
 
Kachon123 said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

One Piece: Sanji Disappears

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Not only can I not find any evidence Henry Queen is that fast on his page (or even a mention of that technique, but it might be written as Henry Blazer) but this is Hiding Calculations

To quote for full transparency:
Hiding calculations is the practice of trying to avoid calculating a feat in order to be able to use the result in another calculation. In other words it is the practice of trying to fool people into not noticing that calc stacking is being used.

This usually occurs if a feat is quantified per a rule of thumb instead of precisely calculated. A typical example would be a character dodging a bullet from a short distance being ranked as "Supersonic" and then using that ranking to calculate the speed of another character, whose speed one can compare to the former in some feat.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
That_moron said:
Didn't Ray state that good kenbun can let you react to light?
Click to expand...
It wasn't Ray, this actually comes from vivre card databook iirc. But as far as I know this mention refers to advanced users of Kenbun and Queen and Sanji do not fit on it.
 
What are the staff conclusions here so far?
 
Can somebody please explain what they agree or disagree about and their reasons for it? Thank you.
 
Even with the (not very compelling, mind you) evidence of lightspeed reactions being used that were posted after my initial thoughts it's still hiding calculations
 
Okay. Our calc group members likely know that area better than most other of our staff members, yes.
 
That's a really strange thing to say when I can look at the calc and clearly see that Queen's reactions are scaled to one of his attacks that (supposedly) goes at lightspeed, which does indeed align with the definition of hiding calculations and bloats the calc significantly past what it should be.
 
Last edited:
DMUA said:
That's a really strange thing to say when I can look at the calc and clearly see that Queen's reactions are scaled to one of his attacks that (supposedly) goes at lightspeed, which does indeed align with the definition of hiding calculations and bloats the calc significantly past what it should be.
Click to expand...
That's to be saved for a CRT. It has no bearing on the math.
Regardless we see No-Super Speed Sanji react to Henry Queen, and then Queen tags him less than 5 pages later.

 
I'm going to outline this very clearly one more time, from the Calc Stacking page
Hiding calculations is the practice of trying to avoid calculating a feat in order to be able to use the result in another calculation. In other words it is the practice of trying to fool people into not noticing that calc stacking is being used.

This usually occurs if a feat is quantified per a rule of thumb instead of precisely calculated. A typical example would be a character dodging a bullet from a short distance being ranked as "Supersonic" and then using that ranking to calculate the speed of another character, whose speed one can compare to the former in some feat.

While it is acceptable to rank a character by such a self-evident feat without a calculation, one should keep in mind that the unwritten calculation is only skipped due to being trivial, but is still the justification for the ranking. Hence calc stacking will still be an issue for such feats.
Click to expand...
As you just confirmed, this is a feat where you are scaling Queen's reactions off a rule of thumb feat, which is not allowed. If you still can't understand that, it's not my problem.
 
Not really the only evidence.
Observation users are explicitly able to react to light speed.
This sort of thing has been accepted before(i.e Fairy Tail Selene Blitz calc though I am not very familiar with that situation)
 
That_moron said:
This sort of thing has been accepted before(i.e Fairy Tail Selene Blitz calc though I am not very familiar with that situation)
Click to expand...
That which exists without my knowledge, exists without my consent

(Granted I might have evaluated years ago way before I considered this stuff with proper scrutiny but gimme a bit)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Kachon123
  • Locked
One Piece: Post-Timeskip Sanji Key Changes
Replies
28
Views
2K
Kachon123
Kachon123
Kachon123
One Piece: Sanji Ifrit Jambe Justification Fix
2 3 4
Replies
140
Views
6K
Kachon123
Kachon123
Floxy178
One Piece speed downgrade (revised)
2 3
Replies
89
Views
8K
Shadow_x007x
Shadow_x007x
  • Locked
Part 2 of the One Piece Downgrade Thread
Replies
6
Views
1K
KingTempest
KingTempest
Kachon123
One Piece: Fishman Island Saga to Early Whole Cake Island Saga Sanji Fixes
2 3 4
Replies
120
Views
4K
DaMonkeMan
DaMonkeMan
Back
Top