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One Piece - Post TS Luffy Upgrade

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CinCameron20

CinCameron20

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To keep it simple, the matter was discussed in this thread.

There will be a tl;dr section at the end, lol.

Basically, it was agreed upon that a difference in power between G2/3 Luffy being around 1000x when we agreed to use a statement from Doflamingo, directly stating the difference in power between Luffy's previous "limit" to Gear 4th as being "several times beyond its limit".

  • Note: The High 7-A+ value on Luffy's profile comes from the lowest end Gear 4th scales from--being above 3x the AP of Gear 2nd, which currently scales >>838MT (>>2.514GT High 7-A) up to 6-C values when taking that same scaling to apply to Gear 3rd (Which currently scales from fighting Fujitora, who is 1.9GT). So somewhere between that line of High 7-A and 6-C.
As such, if we use the statement like we currently do to instead back-scale Gear 4th Luffy to his Gear 3rd, we would use what is generally the low-end for scaling using the "several" statement. "Several" implies a number between 3 and 9 under normal circumstances, and while we used 3x as the low-end, that was for when we up-scaled. As such, we have no reason to use the 3x multiplier for back-scaling, as that would be a high-end value that's unsupported. We would instead used a 9x multiplier, the lowest end that can be argued. As such, Gear 3rd Luffy would scale to High 6-C, or around 500 Gigatons of Tnt.

This affects all characters who scale to Gear 3rd Luffy, and this is the chain that follows: Issho (Admiral Fujitora) (for fighting him on roughly even grounds), Gear 2nd Luffy (as Luffy used this mode during his fight with Fujitora and pressured him), Sabo (for fighting Fujitora), Jesus Burgess (for fighting and hurting Sabo), and anyone else who scales from "High 7-A".

The only change in the scaling chain is that instead of Gear 3rd Luffy scaling from Fujitora, the reverse is applied. Everything else is unaffected outside of changing stats.

tl;dr: We are scaling Gear 2 and 3 Luffy to 1/9 of Gear 4th (Low 6-B) to give us a High 6-C key.

All Likely/Possibly High 7-A characters -> "Likely High 6-C"

  • Examples: Sabo, Jesus Burgess
All High 7-A characters -> "At least High 6-C"

  • Examples: Doflamingo's Black Knight, Gear 2nd/3rd Luffy, Fujitora
All "At least High 7-A+, Possibly Low 6-B" characters -> "Possibly Low 6-B"

Thoughts? Staff input is required.
 
@Rei - Not really, as he only blocked a few attacks with his sword. He does the same to Doffy himself, but all attacks that connected with his body (excluding the time he defended w/ Haki) went straight through his body.

@Dr.Fix - If the calculation is rendered useless, then the verse will simply be downgraded.

In any case, Doflamingo and Commanders will still scale to 6-C from Gear 4th Luffy. (3x above Gear 3rd Luffy scaling from Fujitora would be 1.9GT*3 or 5.7GT)
 
^Admirals as well, though I suppose they're techincally commanders. Likely safer with 5.7 GTs.
 
If the calculation is truly deem unusable then we have the Yonkou scales to Zunesha feat due to Kaido, which is 60 Gigatons iirc.

The Admiral would be 20 GT by being 1/3 as strong as the Yonkou. The Yonkou Commanders would also be the same as well. Gear Fourth Luffy and Doflamingo would be at this level as well.

By using the 1/9 for backscaling from Gear Fourth, Gear Second and Third Luffy would be High 7-A (2.22 GT). Anybody that scales to G2 and G3 Luffy would also be High 7-A.
 
I remember Zuu being 28 gigatons. Big Mom has a 25 gigaton feat herself which is more applicable as Kaido is regarded as the strongest. That would put the Admirals around low-baseline 6-C, right where Luffy et al should be.
 
I did miss that and I have work so can't say more than that right now. I'll just point out the staff member said either 34 or 60 gigatons and thirty seems more in line with universe.
 
> 3x above Gear 3rd Luffy scaling from Fujitora would be 1.9GT*3 or 5.7GT

Why? He wasn't scaling like that before.

> If the calculation is truly deem unusable then we have the Yonkou scales to Zunesha feat due to Kaido, which is 60 Gigatons iirc.

This may be getting into semantics a bit, but I'm not fully convinced that the statement about "Strongest Creature" specifically means Kaido is physically stronger than any other creature on the planet.

Strongest in this context (when the narrator is talking about winning any fight 1 on 1) could just mean that Kaido could beat any creature in the world in a fight.

And fights aren't solely determined by physical strength / AP.
 
Everybody was on the 'Mihawk doesn't scale even with explicit statements of being the Strongest Swordsman' train yet wants to use 'Kaido scales to Zunesha due to being Strongest Creature' train? Come off it
 
Kaido doesn't have any confirmed hax to rely on a fight.

We also went through that discussion before. Zunesha isn't even the confirmed biggest/strongest creature in the New World. Kaido has two confirmed statements about his strength, being that he would win any 1v1 and his title as the Strongest Creature in the World, which of course, includes Zunesha.
 
Just to reiterate, if we give Kaido this scaling, then the Mihawk downgrades need reverted since it relies upon the exact. same. logic. Double standards don't sit well by me.
 
> Kaido doesn't have any confirmed hax to rely on a fight.

That doesn't really matter - flight and fire breath makes Kaido absolutely stomp Zunesha, regardless of physical strength of either combatant.
 
Fire is energy, and unless it's confirmed that Kaido would only win by targetting Zunesha's weakspot he totally scales to the elephant.

Flight is useful so Kaido doesn't fall in the ocean. His range hasn't been proven to be larger than Zunesha's trunk so the elephant might be able to fight back at a distance if Momo gives the order.
 
How exactly is Zunesha going to fight back against Kaido attacking him from behind? This is a completely hypothetical match-up of course, but if we're going to follow it logically Zunesha has no way of realistically fighting back against Kaido at all.

Even if we say Kaido is likely in the same tier as him - we have no solid basis for scaling him exactly to Zunesha's AP.
 
Don't see what good flight and fire breath will do against an elephant that size with an ocean of water to fill in its trunk. Unless Kaido has higher stats of course.
 
Reminder that regular ship cannons were significantly harming Zunesha.

If you're trying to scale Kaido's stats overall to the elephant that was getting SIGNIFICANTLY WOUNDED BY CANNON FIRE I would request some of what you're imbibing since there's blatantly no comparison between the two, and Zunesha's AP is solely a byproduct of its immense size, and in no way relatable to fighting capability, and therefore bunk
 
Dr.Fix said:
Don't see what good flight and fire breath will do against an elephant that size with an ocean of water to fill in its trunk. Unless Kaido has higher stats of course.
Click to expand...
You and Calaca are really reaching here; Zunesha has no way of fighting a flying mobile opponent like Kaido who can happily fly circles around him, roast him alive, and also kill him in exactly the same way Jack's fleet was by crippling and drowning the creature.

There needs to be more evidence than just the statement in order to prove that Kaido - in either human or dragon form - is as physically strong as Zunesha.
 
I have no connection to look at the scans, but we go by Occams Razor and at the time Kaido was revealed we didn't know anything about him to put him in a hypothetical fight.

Not to mention that Zunesha tanked his own trunk swing just fine despite his state, meaning that he can take as much as he gives.
 
Right, but Kaido doesn't need to scale to Zunesha's durability to beat him in a fight.

This would be a different scenario if we had a feat of Kaido punching Zunesha and destroying him.

As it stands none of Kaido's feats puts him anywhere close to Zunesha.
 
If Kaido doesn't scale to Zunesha's durbility he can't take him down. Even when attacking a weakspot Zunesha was able to think of fighting back and successfully doing it.

This also ignore the fact that there are creatures as large if not larger than Zunesha, like the Florian Triangle's mountains.
 
Kaido scales to hitting as hard as cannon fire, and could fly around hitting this hard, I can concede to this fact yes.

So if we want to scale ship cannon fire to Zunesha, we can try that for the entire verse, otherwise this line of argumentation ought to be dropped.
 
Xulrev is right. Are you arguing that the cannons in Jack's fleet scale to Whitebeard and Kaido? Because that's where this line of reasoning is going.
 
They're standard cannons, so every ship would scale to 6-B.

Man, these surprise upgrades are getting more absurd by the day
 
Do you wanna build a strawman?

And you Damage agreed with a strawman, because?

I'll not discuss the same shit we did months ago. If you want to suggest a downgrade, bring new evidence and not the same old debunked arguments while ignoring other pieces of evidence to pull a fallacy and make you look like you won.

All of this is irrelevant as long as the downgrade doesn't take place, and the creator of the method has to pronounce his opinion and provide an update to the method.
 
A logical continuation of what you're arguing isn't a strawman, it's a bad faith argument on your behalf, don't conflate the two

Zunesha is harmed by regular cannon fire, you'er trying to scale Kaido to Zunesha's AP by being a 'stronger creature' than Zunesha when all Kaido need do is fly and hit as hard as a cannon. Don't be so obtuse
 
Me: Kaido scales to Zunesha

You: Kaido scales to cannonballs!

Me: Don't strawman.

You: It's a logical continuation.

IMG 20191123 152403
If Zunesha is that much of a glass cannon as you suggest then please elaborate on why he didn't break apart from his own attack or from, IDK, ******* walking around which requires more energy than those explosions that ain't average cannonballs. I'm listening.

Glad to see that you have no argument for those creatures larger and therefore bulkier and stronger than Zunesha which Kaido would scale to anyway.
 
You're entirely wrong.

You're saying Kaido scales to Zunesha's AP due to being the 'Strongest Creature' and 'winning any 1v1', when Zunesha is demonstrably harmed by Cannonballs. Kaido possesses the means to beat Zunesha that are laughably superior to Cannonballs.

Therefore, we're left at an impasse, where either the Cannonballs are laughably strong, or Kaido simply beats Zunesha due to Zunesha being HILARIOUSLY ******* WEAK to any conventional attack, which does not let Kaido scale via AP.

THEN, you proceeded to try and claim Zunesha's durability directly scales to his AP, IGNORING THE CANNONBALL PROBLEM.

YOU are the one who tried to make the cannonballs scale and just dismissed the logical implications of your argument.

Try re-reading the discussion thus far and you'll understand I hope.
 
I'm really holding back my reaction memes to not turn this into a lolfest.

Care to show me where the **** did I imply 6-B Cannonballs, dude? Putting words in my mouth is one of the things I hate the most, so I kindly advice you to not do that.

Do not bring bullshit based on poorly reading comprehension. Nowhere I implied that.

Cannonballs hurt Zunesha? First and foremost, it happened on the old skin in his legs. Second, a Flame from your burner can hurt you despite being considerably bigger than a mere little flame.

You're deliberately ignoring the other creatures argument and Zunesha tanking his own AP just for the sake or your stretch.
AaOSHJi
 
Wait did you miss the part where his entire leg was missing a section due to the cannon fire?? Did you actually just misread the scans of what occurred?

If so then I apologize, you're not being disingenuous as I presumed.but check chapter 821. On mobile and its giving me fits but his leg is missing an entire section due to cannon fire.
 
Oh and there arent any creatures with quantifiable sizes or AP to scale Kaido to that are actually documented or known so they dont count obviously. And Zunesha blatantly doesn't scale how you assert due to the cannon fire.

Youre mistaken all around
 
Then why would you be making the assertion

> it was just the skin

and act as if it's correct? Especially when someone states that no, you're mistaken, and you can't support your view? Here's the page , middle panel, BLATANTLY missing a huge chunk of his leg, thus causing him to begin falling which was Jack's hope so Jack could attack the head directly and kill the elephant.

Hugely avoidable in the future. Your point is just mistaken
 
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