One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #4

[Ronnijuro]

In any case only Cracker's Armament is above Doffy's.

Mistranslation. Luffy doesn't say that Cracker's Haki is higher unless you're referring to something else?

He said something like "his armament is too hard" if I remember correctly (the good translation).

At any rate, the meaning of that and "his Haki is the hardest ever seen" (<-- the mistranslation) is the same, CoA Cracker > CoA Doflamingo.

 

[Ercosore]

Cracker was able to hurt G4 Luffy while Doffy´s attacks bounce off. Even if Luffy didnt outrigh said it I think its clear that Cracker´s armament is above Doffys.

 

[Dr.Fix]

...

...

No, the multiplier would upgrade him to 6-C.

 

[Ercosore]

So, I have been re-reading Fishmen island and I found this, honestly I compleatly forgot about that part, Luffy legit managed to hurt Jinbe a bit. Yeah it ended up with a gag, but I though I should mention it.

 

[Js250476]

@Ercosore tbh I knew about that all day and thought of bringing it up I just didn't know what the stance on it was

 

[Ercosore]

It kinda meses up our current scalling a bit, doesnt it? Honestly I am not sure wheater considering this an outlier or not.

 

[Js250476]

That was my concern as well

 

[KobsterHope07]

Could it be that Jinbe didn't use Haki and wanted to feel Luffy's attack directly. In Whole Cake Island, Luffy couldn't even dent Perospero's candy wall with G3 when not coated with Armament Haki when he could destroy his Candy Maiden with Red Hawk. Armament Haki really makes a different.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

If it's happened on several occasions can you really call them an outlier? What's this, like the fourth time Base Luffy has been shown to be this strong?

 

[Js250476]

@Kobster I mean in context Jinbe was legitimately angry with Luffy going after Hody in the way he didn't want so it's likely he was giving everything he had but I don't think we can say ether way

 

[Ercosore]

Regarding Perospero, neither Luffy or Jinbe used armament in this exchange, so if we accept this I can see the scaling being something like:

G2/G3 Luffy=Jinbei (Without armament) <Perospero<G2/G3 Luffy=Jinbe (With armament and asuming their armament is in a similar level.)

Edit:

Actually, I think we can still make the scalling work, however it would mean that neither Sanji, Zoro or Luffy have made that much progress since they entered the new world.

Imo if we accept this as legit I think the scalling should be something like:

G2/3 Luffy=Jinbe (Both without armament)<Perospero/Daifuku/Oven=<Sanji and his family<=Zoro<G2/3 Luffy(with armament)<Doflamingo<Cracker<<Katakuri<<<<<Younko.

 

[Schnee_One]

Ugarik accepted Buggy Bomb's revision. The result is High 8-C+.

Should anyone be 8B since it's that close and he's fodder?

Also, random question, does Ace get downgraded at all?

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Ace doesn't get downgraded, he might actually get an upgrade depending on what his Presence at Jaya yields.


Not really sure if they'd be 8-B via scaling above a High 8-C+ feat.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

I'm still thinking we should go for Whitebeard manipulating the tectonic plates for his Marineford, seeing that's the only way that a underwater explosion can happen. He's also been shown to manipulate them a few times like when he tilted Marineford, and I think the method Damage suggested is KE. I'm also wondering if a compromise could be made, calculating the feat with both methods and adding "At Least_" for the KE end and a "Likely_" for the Tectonic Plates end.

Also I think this is the most important topic we should discuss atm seeing as how this could possibly upgrade the verse and in return mess with the current scaling.

 

[The_Calaca]

The High 8-C+ feat is baseline + so no, at most they get an At least for the strongest characters but I wouldn't lead with that.

 

[Schnee_One]

I thought it was 13 Tons?

 

[The_Calaca]

That's 8-B but the feat is Buggy tanking the explosion and the calc lists the durability as half of it. IDK how those calcs works but going by our standards a character tanking an explosion like that scales just to half of the AP.

In any case, Buggy should have an 8-B via Buggy Bomb and High 8-C+ for himself.

 

[Aerozz]

I mean I don't know why people still ignoring the fact that luffy didn't use armament haki on pacifista and he only used observation haki to dodge the lazer from the pacifista and later one shot it with only G2 no haki.
The proof is that this is after the time skip (which the black color should be used because he used it few chapters later)

,and even zoro/sanji didn't use armament haki but they still neg/low diff the pacifista and also luffy used the armament haki (black colored) a few chapters later here is some pictures

 

[Damage3245]

Aerozz, where is your proof that Luffy did not use Armament Haki?

His arm is a blur here , making it impossible to say there is no Haki being used, and Sentomaru's comment does not specify whether he is referring to Armament or Observation Haki.

 

[Ronnijuro]

Luffy didn't use CoO, that's his normal speed/reaction, only CoA (invisible) in his arm.

 

[Aerozz]

Also I want to show that the pacifista should have lightspeed lasers because X-Drake speaks about the pacifista and said that those lasers are kizaru's laser which is proven by Oda himself(that kizaru's laser are lightspeed)

,also I really disagree with the pacifista are low 7-B because pre timeskip franky whos way weaker than the pacifista and he survived the huge explosion which should be more than 7-B ,but still used on low 7-B (its like saying that the pacifista are as strong as pretimeskip franky which dosent make any sense).

here is some picture of the island that franky was on and X drake.

 

[Ronnijuro]

Aerozz
Franky surviving that is an outlier.

And the only one with LS speed is Kizaru with his kick or with YNK.

 

[Damage3245]

That explosion was already calced to be Town level+.

Aerozz, you always come into these One Piece threads and try to derail them.

Also, please don't quote large posts, especially with images in them.

 

[Aerozz]

@Damage3245 yes because this doesn't make any sense calling this a town level explosion or your favorite word outlier its like saying this island is 1-2 km which is far from true.

 

[Ronnijuro]

@Damage3245

This is already is Town+ --> Franky general canno

How can a mountain exploding with a militar laboratory (many steel reinforcement walls) be Town+? -.-

 

[Aerozz]

Aerozz, where is your proof that Luffy did not use Armament Haki?

His arm is a blur here , making it impossible to say there is no Haki being used, and Sentomaru's comment does not specify whether he is referring to Armament or Observation Haki.

because everytime luffy use haki there is something black on his hand and where is your proof that he used CoA haki which he only used CoO.

 

[Damage3245]

because everytime luffy use haki there is something black on his hand and where is your proof that he used CoA haki which he only used CoO.

Haki is not always visible, even Post-Timeskip.

A heavy concentration of Haki turns parts of the body, or weapons, black, but we've seen people use Haki without it being black.

The only 'proof' I have is that Sentomaru stated that Luffy used Haki *after* he attacked the Pacifista, not after he dodged the laser beams. The context of that is that he used Haki to enhance his attack.

 

[Ronnijuro]

@Aerozz

There are Invisible CoA and the Visible (black) CoA.

Luffy Invisible CoA1

Luffy Invisible CoA2

Tashigi Invisible CoA

Luffy Invisible CoA3

Luffy Invisible CoA4

Doffy Invisible CoA


And like I said, Luffy didnt use CoO against the Pacifista. There is no statement and Pacifistas are randoms. That feat dodging the lasers is his normal reaction speed/speed.

 

[Aerozz]

Haki is not always visible, even Post-Timeskip.

A heavy concentration of Haki turns parts of the body, or weapons, black, but we've seen people use Haki without it being black.

The only 'proof' I have is that Sentomaru stated that Luffy used Haki *after* he attacked the Pacifista, not after he dodged the laser beams. The context of that is that he used Haki to enhance his attack.

hmmm and where is the proof of people used haki without turning black on attacking things After the time skip?

because I always see it like this that invisible haki will make you touch things aka logia , and black colored to attack things/make your hand/attacks stronger.

still luffy didn't use CoA on pacifista and only used CoO and to prove you even further (Oda Said in the Viver Card Data Book that the only people who can dodge/fight kizaru(lightspeed) are the one who can use CoO)

 

[Aerozz]

@Aerozz

There are Invisible CoA and the Visible (black) CoA.

Luffy Invisible CoA1

Luffy Invisible CoA2

Tashigi Invisible CoA

Luffy Invisible CoA3

Luffy Invisible CoA4

Doffy Invisible CoA


And like I said, Luffy didnt use CoO against the Pacifista. There is no statement and Pacifistas are randoms. That feat dodging the lasers is his normal reaction speed/speed.

first luffy didn't use haki on hody because he said that it wouldn't be enough for it ,

and second you can use haki to touch things and also attack it with your physical strength but the black colored haki make your attack stronger as Rayleigh said before

and about sanji idk whats your point but he still didn't use black colored haki.

 

[Damage3245]

This is the first example that I can think of . It is difficult to tell in many cases of course since the opponent would need to either be a logia or the use of Haki would need to be stated, but here at least a character stated that his attack had Haki in it.

 

[Aerozz]

This is the first example that I can think of . It is difficult to tell in many cases of course since the opponent would need to either be a logia or the use of Haki would need to be stated, but here at least a character stated that his attack had Haki in it.

sorry I didn't make it understandable enough (coz English is not my first language)

I always see it like this for years invisible haki is lv1 haki make your attack stronger/touch logia but lv2 haki is the black color that make your haki way stronger/touch logia than lv1/without.

so yes your right luffy did use armament haki but he used the lv1 armament haki which is the invisible one

 

[Damage3245]

Since you can't see Luffy's arm on the panel where he attacks it is impossible to say that he was using invisible or visible Armament Haki.

But that's besides the point; Luffy one-shot the Pacifista with Gear 2 and most likely Haki.

Sanji and Zoro one-shot a Haki in base.

All three of these feats are At least Small City level.

Now. The main issue is that Zoro's most impressive feat in Dressrosa was calced to be City level.

And we need to decide who should scale to it.

 

[Ronnijuro]

The scene is quite clear.

Luffy dodge lasers --> no comment from Sentomaru

Luffy oneshot Pacifista --> Sentomaru "he used Haki!" --> Implies that Haki was used in his punch.

End. You're wrong. There isn't another possible interpretation.


Lasers of Pacifista based on Kizaru's laser don't mean that Pacifista's lasers = in power and speed of Kizaru. The lasers have the same form, color and working. That's all. Luffy G2 Dressrosa Arc is sligthly below to Doflamingo in speed and Kizaru > Katakuri > Cracker > DD in speed. So obviously Pacifista doesnt have the Kizaru's laser speed in their own, that's ridiculous.

 

[Damage3245]

Let's not derail this thread with arguments about speed please.

This thread is just for AP / Durability.

 

[Aerozz]

@Damage3245 I Strongly disagree with you on zoro being a city level who cuts a huge mountain also on Pacifista's being small city level and also on the huge explotion that franky survived being a town level+

 

[Aerozz]

now I want the people here to see the feats I posted and want to know what's your opinion on these great feats that got a huge downgraded and that's all

 

[Ronnijuro]

first luffy didn't use haki on hody because he said that it wouldn't be enough for it ,

and second you can use haki to touch things and also attack it with your physical strength but the black colored haki make your attack stronger as Rayleigh said before

and about sanji idk whats your point but he still didn't use black colored haki.

No, Luffy used invisible CoA and Hody pierced it.

That's irrelevant for what are we discussing.

Not Sanji, DD Invisible CoA. Without CoA in his coat, the coat would have broken to pieces.

 

[Damage3245]

You can disagree with me but the calcs and feats are what is important.

I think a different rating for Luffy's Post-Timeskip key could:

At least Small City level in base, likely higher with Gear 2 (One-shot a Pacifista, injured a weakened Doflamingo), likely Mountain level with Gear 3 (One-shot Chinjao, Forced Doflamingo to evade his attacks), At least Large Mountain level with Gear 4 (Broke through Doflamingo's most powerful attack with his King Kong Gun. Completely overwhelmed Doflamingo during their fight)

 

[Aerozz]

I don't only disagree with you but on the people who said that those feat, franky being town lv+, Pacifista being low city lv and the other things because it doesn't make any sense and need to be calced again because this makes me think this site hates one piece and don't want to make things fair.

again hope people see the things I posted thanks.