One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #3

[Aerozz]

this is a prove why he is almost five times blueno power, as you know fukurou has 800 power level and franky bearly beat fukurou ,and franky used one of his strongest attacks and didn't do any damage to lucci in his base form, also lucci used finger pistol which is one of his weakest attacks.

 

[Damage3245]

Well, I think we discussed last time that the estimate for Lucci's rating is:

AP: At least Town level+ in base, Large Town level with Zoan forms

Durability: At least Town level+, Large Town level with Tekkai

I'll do a quick reread of the other CP9 members feats to see where they stack up.

 

[Aerozz]

this doesn't make any sense lucci should be way higher than large town level as you saw these proves that luffy base form is at least 5 times stronger than himself in skypeia which I believe you put luffy as town level(at skypeia) . you shouldn't ignore these feats/facts.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not ignoring them, I'm just trying to make sure we're not overlooking anything.

Luffy, when going all out in the Skypiea Saga, is somewhere around Town level and Town level+, sure.

Does that mean that a fairly basic kick from Luffy against Blueno is Town level+? Not necessarily. Especially when we also take into account that Blueno just dodged every other attack from Luffy, and that even Lucci decided to use Tekkai to defend himself from Luffy's Gum-Gum Gatling before Luffy increased in power.

It's possible Luffy wasn't operating at peak power when he first faced Blueno, it's been a while since I read the arc so I'm not sure if Luffy was tired or injury in any way.

But a 5 times power increase out of nowhere sounds odd if it happened for no reason.

 

[Aerozz]

tbh every feat/facts you see in one piece you say its outlier which is far from true as I told you luffy is town level+ at skypiea and serous luffy didn't do any damaged to blueno at water 7, and in enies lobby luffy was stronger/evenly match to blueno attacking him in base attacks and stronger attacks even with takki blueno,

also luffy got way stronger while fighting lucci in base form who is almost five times blueno's overall strength. im not the one who says luffy got 5 times blueno its the manga it self lucci says that he is five times fukurou who franky barely/hardly beat him and it didn't do any damage to base lucci what more proofs that makes you satisfied?

luffy may not have many aoe attacks but luffy has physical attacks similar to goku or some other animes.

 

[1997KD]

@Aerozz You just keep using statement over feat, and nothing to prove, and your comment are nothing more than spam, also learn outlier meaning, no one lowballing op here, instead sometimes we accidentally wank it, so unless you have some solid porve, let us complete our crt

 

[Damage3245]

I'm pretty sure that base Luffy in the Skypiea Saga should only be Town level for his AP. Higher for when he had the Golden Ball attached to him, but that's about it.

Enel only has a single calced durability feat IIRC and that was Town level.

It is possible that base Rob Lucci is Large Town level - but I don't think the Doriki measurements are supposed to be taken as an exact multiplier of AP.

An average soldier has a Doriki of 10 after all. If Blueno is just 82 times stronger than the average human, then it wouldn't make sense for him to be Town level+.

 

[Aerozz]

and who says that the soldier is an average human? they should be way stronger than normal humans as you know they do 1000 push ups/100 times running and other things and yes these are a good proves but you just don't want to accept them.

 

[Damage3245]

Aerozz, you have this remarkable talent for bogging down discussion whenever you show up to rant about 'outliers' and say that we're just downplaying.

I think we're actually on good track to sorting out the ratings for the series. Thanks for your comments.

 

[Aerozz]

no your not in good track because apparently your ignoring facts and when I say true facts your saying im spamming or saying this is not true because you just don't want it that's all im saying hope someone here see whats my points and look at them seriously because Damage don't want to take these serous.

 

[The_Calaca]

@Aerozz

Let me see. What you're saying is that Luffy got 5 times stronger between arcs, right? We have no direct confirmation that those power levels are linear. That's why I asked about Viz translation before, because I was wondering about it.

And yes, Luffy used both regular and named attacks against Blueno. The one when he crashed his head against a wall was a normal attack. But Blueno didn't used Tekkai on that instance while every time Luffy names the attack Blueno uses Tekkai to block or less the damage.

Most of the fight happened between 384 and 388. I'm currently thinking that the main problem Luffy had during the battle wasn't power but speed. He can keep up with Blueno's speed at Base but the former is still faster and has better mobility with Geppou so Luffy activated G2 in order to eliminate that speed difference. Because we've seen that Luffy can harm Blueno even if he uses Tekkai. So Luffy is stronger by far than Blueno but we have no clear comparisons. In the mansion Blueno blocked a casual kick with Tekkai but in Enies Lobby he matched Base Luffy with Tekkai and still got damaged by him.

So going by this we can't say if he got 5 stronger between W7 and EL. In any case he grew stronger but I doubt is at that level. I don't remember that Lucci tanked a named attack without Tekkai so it supports my point.

Also he matched Base Lucci but did nothing against him. At most he's comparable which is consistent with being far stronger than Blueno to the point he can break the Tekkai.

 

[Damage3245]

I think we have similar interpretations on this Calaca, thanks for typing that out.

 

[The_Calaca]

Hey, we have to agree sometimes

 

[Captain_Torch]

I agree with Calaca on this one

 

[Aerozz]

well luffy was serous when he kicked blueno, and franky used an attack that destroyed fukurou's (800) tekkai which is 5 times weaker than base lucci(4000)and franky didn't do any damage to him, Also base lucci almost one shots franky with finger pistol/s which is one of his weakest attacks.


unlike luffy who got even stronger while fighting lucci and hurts him in base form and DF Form,

and yes even using tekkaki luffy still hurts him unless your saying that blueno is the same level as lucci which is wrong.

 

[The_Calaca]

Let me word it again.

During W7:

Luffy unnamed attack <<< Blueno's Tekkai.

Luffy named attack ? Blueno (he dodged him).

During EL:

Luffy unnamed attack > Blueno w/o Tekkai.

Luffy named attack > Blueno with Tekkai.

Those four instances had different conditions so we can't grant an upgrade even if Luffy was serious. The bigger jump was on speed because Luffy started getting blitzed to being comparable to Blueno and later, Lucci.

 

[Damage3245]

I wish someone had put together a full album of the entire fight so it'd be easier to read than just looking up the chapters.

To put it this way; Blueno was able to take about 4 or 5 Gear 2 attacks IIRC before he passed out.

Base Lucci got knocked on his ass (and spit up some blood?) from a single Gear 2 attack that took him by surprise.

I don't remember the exact details, but if Lucci was really 5 times more durable, would he have been hit so heavily by a Gear 2 attack?

 

[Aerozz]

yes they were that strong compare to luffy and others and even blueno commented on why luffy got way stronger than he was in water 7.

luffy even attacked blueno with no name attack while blueno using tekkai and it was evenly matched/little stronger than him.

my guy I'm really tired writing my statements you can go up and see the pictures/words I said.

 

[The_Calaca]

Blueno was heavy breathing after some attacks. I think standing against G2 is more his own stamina's feat rather than an inconsistency when you look at Lucci.

@Aerozz

Like I said, Blueno wasn't using Tekkai when Luffy crashed his head on the wall.

 

[Aerozz]

@Damge3245 lucci wasn't using tekkai when luffy jet pistol him.

btw gear second is at least 3 times his base form if not higher.

 

[Aerozz]

@Calaca VS

Luffy got even stronger(As strong as base lucci which is 5 times blueno) while fighting lucci and that's why he defeated him.

luffy gets stronger while fighting an enemies,

this is similar to the katakuri vs luffy fight

 

[1997KD]

This is thread is just becoming mess again. There is lot of work to do

@aerozz make a differenth thread for your opinion

 

[The_Calaca]

>G2 is at least 3x Base

It would help a lot if you stop making those claims with no supporting evidence or arguments.

Actually I'd argue that's even bigger because G2 matched Zoan Lucci but we don't know for sure Doriki are linear. And Luffy obtained the PowerUp before fighting Lucci not during the battle. That's why he wasn't outclassing him and was pretty even with him.

 

[Aerozz]

this is one of proofs that when lucci use DF zoan he will be stronger than base form

btw Calaca VS I said 3x times because if I said higher someone will cry ,and I agree it should be higher maybe 5x+

 

[Damage3245]

Aerozz, please stop.

We know that Lucci is stronger when he uses his Zoan forms... that's already on his profile.

 

[1997KD]

Btw did we finish high tier character (akinu,wb etc)scaling or we need to wait?

 

[The_Calaca]

We're waiting. We almost finished Skypiea and Enies Lobby. And with that comes Thriller Bark. After that we can restart the discusion about Post-TS.

BTW are we going to split the Monster Trio's profile into Pre and Post TS?

 

[Damage3245]

Luffy's definitely needs splitting.

I'd argue that Zoro's definitely needs splitting too considering he's been in the series as long as Luffy has and has had great jumps in power too.

I'm not sure about Sanji's yet but there's a strong likelihood of it.

 

[The_Calaca]

Luffy would have 7 keys (EBS, AA, SA, ELA, TBtoPW, Pre-Kata and Post-Kata) before the split while both Zoro and Sanji would have 6 (EBS, AA, SA, ELA, TB and Post TS) unless there is other key that would need to be splitted. Sanji would have the 7th key for Whole Cake.

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

@Damage Will you be doing the ratings for the Long Long Island Arc?

 

[Damage3245]

No, that arc is so small and stuck between Skypiea and Water 7. There's no point to it IMO.

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

Ok, I thought that might be the reason why it hasn't been brought up.

 

[Damage3245]

I think dividing the characters up by arc isn't the best way to do it. We should dividing them up by Saga like the East Blue Saga.

In this case, the Long Long Island Arc is a part of the Water 7 Saga.

 

[The_Calaca]

East Blue Saga | Arabasta Saga (starting at Whiskey Peak) | Skypiea to Water Seven Saga (starting at Jaya and finishing) | Enies Lobby | Thriller Bark | Paramount War Saga (everything between first landing in Amazon Lily to the post-war) | Post Timeskip.

In Luffy and Sanji's cases they'd have the Post TS splitted in two. Pre Katakuri's fight and Post Katakuri's fight for Luffy and Fishman Island to Dressrosa Saga and Whole Cake Arc for Sanji.

Thoughts?

 

[Damage3245]

Sure, but you can simplify it a bit by putting it as:

Skypiea Saga | Water 7 Saga | Thriller Bark Saga

Water 7 Saga covers them up to the end of the Enies Lobby Arc / Post-Enies Lobby Arc.

 

[The_Calaca]

True.

 

[Stefano4444]

If we're really going to make Luffy, Zoro and Sanji profiles for both Pre Timeskip and Post Timeskip, then we should just make a key for each saga in the series.

Luffy Pre Timeskip (which can be apply with Zoro and Sanji):

East Blue Saga | Arabasta Saga | Sky Island Saga (from Java to everything else before Enies Lobby) | Water 7 Saga (during the battle of Enies Lobby) | Thriller Bark Saga | Summit War Saga

Luffy Post Timeskip (which could be more or less apply with Zoro and Sanji):

Fish-Man Island Saga | Dressrosa Saga (from Punk Hazard to everything else before Katakuri's fight) | Yonko Saga (after Katakuri's fight)

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think there are noticable improvements from Fish-Man Island to Dressrosa, so I think we could have Post-Timeskip just be:

Dressrosa Saga | Yonko Saga

If you think we should include it though, that's fine too.

 

[Captain_Torch]

Base Luffy went from being hurt by Hody while using Haki in fishman island, to tanking Doflamingo's attacks with his haki in Dressrosa. Pretty sure there was growth between the arcs.

 

[Damage3245]

Alright, yeah. Fishman Island Saga can be its own key.