One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #3

[Damage3245]

The alternative is simply scaling it to feats and characters rather than trying to use it as a multiplier for non-official numbers.

This is all that Doflamingo says . Luffy using the tensile force to raise his power several times above his limits.

That doesn't mean Gear 4 = 3 x Gear 3.

Also, disregarding the multiplier statement wouldn't change anyones ratings anyway, so I don't see what the point of arguing about it is.

 

[Lightbuster30]

He said that only his Gear 2 attacks had no weight to them.

Doffy in fact was never hit by a Gear 3 attack because he always blocked or dodged them.

Yes, he also tried blocking gear 4 and was sent across the island for it. Mind you, he felt the need to use haki and still failed.

 

[Damage3245]

Yes, he also tried blocking gear 4 and was sent across the island for it. Mind you, he felt the need to use haki and still failed.

Your point being...?

 

[Dr.Fix]

As I said. if they're other valid feats we can discuss it then. Objecting to it without offering an alternative is overkill.

 

[Damage3245]

I already stated an alternative; scaling to feats and other characters.

Luffy's strongest attacks in the Dressrosa Saga would scale to being High 7-A+. Ordinary Gear 4 attacks would be High 7-A for being the same ballpark but inferior to his strongest attacks.

Luffy's Gear 4 (Boundman and Snakeman) could be 6-C for pummelling Katakuri and sending him flying with some his strikes (including breaking through his enhanced Haki guard).

No multipliers from Gear 3 are necessary for those ratings.

 

[Dr.Fix]

The problem with that is Katakuri scales to Luffy calcs, not the other way around.

 

[Damage3245]

Katakuri scales to being superior to the other Big Mom Commanders, and being the 'most perfect specimen' of the Charlotte family.

That makes either At least High 7-A or 6-C.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Does not matter. Oven does not have a 6-C feat and Cracker has the same problem as Katakuri.

 

[Damage3245]

Cracker should be At least High 7-A really.

Also, there is no way to argue for 6-C Luffy other than by scaling him to Katakuri... Using the Gear 4 multiplier argument wouldn't make Luffy 6-C in Dressrosa.

 

[Dr.Fix]

I'm just going to quote myself since you're missing the point.

"

The problem with that is Katakuri scales to Luffy calcs, not the other way around."

 

[Ercosore]

Are you saying that without the multipliers G4 Luffy and Katakuri wouldnt be 6-C? That´s...actually a good point.

 

[Damage3245]

Are you saying that without the multipliers G4 Luffy and Katakuri wouldnt be 6-C? That´s...actually a good point.

Luffy wouldn't be 6-C in the Dressrosa Saga even with the multipliers.

 

[Ercosore]

So why are Luffy and Katakuri 6-C then?

 

[Damage3245]

So why are Luffy and Katakuri 6-C then?

If you're talking about their current profiles, it's because they haven't been updated yet.

As for their current scaling, I believe they should be either At least High 7-A or 6-C.

6-C being for Katakuri being heavily superior to Cracker, second only to Big Mom in the crew, and being likely comparable to the top commander of the Whitebeard Pirates.

But I'd be fine with Katakuri being rated At least High 7-A too.

 

[Ercosore]

Well since High 7-A its a small tier I could Katakuri being 6-C base on the current accepted feats and scalling. I think at least High 7-A Likely 6-C would be a safer option, but I am ok either way.

 

[Dr.Fix]

If Luffy is not 6-C then neither Cracker nor Katakuri have a 6-C rating. its just that simple.

Personally I think high 7-A, given its such a very small tier, and ignoring canon multipliers is absurd. If Damage had another Calc for Gear 4 I'd be willing to discuss that. Damage keeping everyone in high 7-A just because they feel like rejecting canon statements is silly IMHO.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Duffy: High 7-A, possibly 6-C with God threads

Gear 4 Luffy: 6-C

Cracker: 6-C

Big Mom: 6-C

Katakuri: 6-C

Kaido: At least 6-C

 

[Ercosore]

There is no canon multiplier tho, there is only one vague statement made by Doflamingo.

 

[Damage3245]

Dr. Fix, there is no way Kaido is currently At least 6-C. He is 6-C.

How can you say Doffy is possibly 6-C with God Threads? Based on what?

If your claim is that Luffy is 6-C based on multiplying Gear 3, then what is your value for Gear 3 in the Dressrosa Arc?

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

It's not vague, it's coming from a knowledgeable character who's directly feeling the force of the attack. Along with the fact that Gear Fourth being a 3x multiplier is legit given how strong the transformation is. It's not like it's a massive 100x multiplier so there's no issue with it. Also what do you mean there's no Canon multiplier? Excuse me but that's just dishonest. It's literally stated in the Manga, it's most certainly canon.

 

[Ercosore]

Here is what Doffy said., He said "several" which means "an amount that is not exact but is fewer than many"or "more than two and fewer than many", If that is not vague then I dont know what vague is.

 

[Damage3245]

Yes, but he's not explicitly comparing it to Gear 3.

If you want to say "he's directly feeling the force of the attack so he's knows what to compare it to", Doffy has never been hit by a Gear 3 attack so he can't be saying it's 3 times greater than Gear 3.

 

[Captain_Torch]

I agree with Damage and Ercoscore on this one

 

[Damage3245]

So, as I see it currently:

Dressrosa Luffy's Gear 4: High 7-A, higher with strongest attacks

Whole Cake Luffy's Gear 4: At least High 7-A, higher with strongest attacks

Cracker: At least High 7-A

Smoothie: At least High 7-A

Katakuri: At least High 7-A, likely higher

Anyone have issues with these ratings?

 

[Captain_Torch]

Why is Dressrosa Luffy's Gear 4 High 7-A?

 

[Damage3245]

Luffy's King Kong Gun is High 7-A+ for breaking through / overpowering Doffy's strongest attack / strings.

Luffy's ordinary Gear 4 attacks are inferior but shouldn't be too inferior. So they'd be ordinary High 7-A.

 

[Ercosore]

Makes sene to me.

 

[Captain_Torch]

I thought we decided not to scale to birdcage..?

 

[Damage3245]

I thought we decided not to scale to birdcage..?

We decided not scale Doffy's Black Knight to the Birdcage.

Luffy breaking his strings with his strongest attack should be fine for scaling purposes.

Especially since some other Yonkou Commanders are already 6-C or High 7-A.

 

[Captain_Torch]

Hmm, well, I'm still against using the birdcage for various reasons brought up before, but I don't really care at this point, so whatever, especially since the trio are High 7-A after Big Mom arc regardless.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

We accepted Birdcage scaling to Doffy and Co actually, the majority of users agreed with Cin and his points. It'd probably be better to ask him to comment here again about it. I find myself agreeing to Birdcage scaling but don't have time to argue for it. That being said High 7-A+ KKG and His strongest attack for Snake Man should be fine.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Yeah, I don't accept birdcage by itself because more threads equal more strength and birdcage is unquestionnably the most thread Duffy ever uses.

That said, there are several calcs that support a high 7-A characters including the elephant, Fugi, and Oven. Luffy's base was also supported for being at least 7-A making high 7-A within reason and he was still weaker than Duffy.

Anywho the Duffy's appraisal is about as canon a statement as you can possibly get. If it were 100 times bigger and/or we looking at a jump from 7-A to 6-C I would def not support it. Given we have Duffy going from borderline 6-C to possibly 6-C isn't much of a stretch. I prefer that scaling over putting "At least High 7-A, possibly 6-C" for so many character profiles with a substantial difference between the strongest (Post WCI Luffy/Katakuri) and weakest (Base Duffy).

Even Big Mom and Kaido would just scale to high 7-A otherwise, unless we scale from Zushi but I rem reading Damage didn't like using that because Jack was not hit with the full force. :S

 

[Damage3245]

Technically if we take the statement about Kaido being the strongest creature in the world as legit, then Kaido scales to above Zunisha.

Making him 6-C.

 

[Ercosore]

We dont even need to do that, we have Fujitora´s meteors for scaling the Yonko.

 

[Damage3245]

Fujitora's meteors are not optimal for scaling due to the lack of feats.

Speculation is good and sometimes necessary, but if we have a better alternative we should use it.

 

[Ercosore]

That is true, however I am unsure if Zushina truly is better for scalling than the meteors. In another topic, is there any calc for Luffy almost destroying Noah? I remember seeing one once, but I couldnt find it.

 

[Damage3245]

There was one, but it like Small City level at best.

I apologize for not making more updates this week but I've gone through a really rough period IRL since Tuesday. I'll try to some more done later today.

 

[Stefano4444]

That said, there are several calcs that support a high 7-A characters including the elephant, Fugi, and Oven. Luffy's base was also supported for being at least 7-A making high 7-A within reason and he was still weaker than Duffy.

7-A would be more like Dressrosa Arc Luffy (without Gear 4th) for be as strong as Dressrosa Arc Zoro, while High 7-A would be valid for Whole Cake Arc Luffy for be most likely comparable to Charlotte Oven.

And if we do indeed scale Luffy and Charlotte Oven, the Gear 4th boost would allow Luffy to jump tier to fully 6-C.

 

[Ercosore]

Only Small city level? Well that is dissapointing.

No need for apoligizes, and I wish you good luck with whatever problem you are having IRL at the moment.

 

[RexofLM]

Can we calc king kong gun and leo bazooka before we go off making changess