One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[MonkeyOfLife]

 

[XDragnoir]

This is a more accurate translation

??? Even your translation still says minds, what exactly changed?

… stop

LMAO. That's all you have to say? Like, you're just gonna say the wiki page is wrong and that's it?

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Well... that's cute I guess.

Although they need to stop playing around and give us a top quality OP game

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

??? Even your translation still says minds, what exactly changed?



LMAO. That's all you have to say? Like, you're just gonna say the wiki page is wrong and that's it?

If that's how you interpret that, I'm not going to explain anymore then I already have

Read their heart/mind = know their future moves (if you know their future, you can Imagine/see it in your mind) = obs haki

Hearing/seeing people's thoughts > guessing their future move = Analytical prediction

So basically they see the future but differently and only the future of their opponent.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Kizaru can sing fr

 

[XDragnoir]

Read their heart/mind = know their future moves (if you know their future, you can Imagine/see it in your mind) = obs haki

Hearing/seeing people's thoughts > guessing their future move = Analytical prediction

What is the difference between reading minds and hearing thoughts? These two things are synonyms no matter how you look at it.

To the point Koby explicitly refers to hearing voices in his head when he awakened Kenbu, with Kaido making a pretty similar comment in Wano.

You're trying to create a difference solely based on semantics when in practice the two terms you're using are interchangeable.

And again, you're saying the damn wiki page is wrong, it explicitly says Divination has to see the future itself, knowing the next move based or reading minds doesn't fit this criteria.

So basically they see the future but differently and only the future of their opponent.

Anyway, I discussed this offsite and had other OP supporters agree Divination isn't the correct ability for Kenbu (not talking about Advanced here, obviously), so I guess I will just agree to disagree with you and add that I may create a CRT for OP and the Precog page eventually.

 

[KingTempest]

Yall gotta be the lamest mfs ever to where nobody here spoke about the literal new anime revamp that's approaching when tonight was the release night for information

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

What is the difference between reading minds and hearing thoughts? These two things are synonyms no matter how you look at it.

that’s how OBSERVATION HAKI works… not how it should work based on your headcanon, by reading their mind (not literally as it’s says by reading their will/heart and presence) they know the future moves of their opponent,,, Rayleigh literally says via Luffy being attuned to the emotions of living things, he’s able to sense the next action someone will take… nothing at all by observing one’s mind or hearing their thoughts

To the point Koby explicitly refers to hearing voices in his head when he awakened Kenbu, with Kaido making a pretty similar comment in Wano

Either enhanced senses or the same way Zoro senses ones “breath” it’s not literal… the voice here means their life or presence… every living thing emits a type of “voice” (living presence)

You're trying to create a difference solely based on semantics when in practice the two terms you're using are interchangeable.

No I’m creating the differences solely based on the difference they literally said that differentiates, Advanced with non advanced… literally read it again… they are the same abilities but advanced is the more potent/clear, enabling them to see further and more into the future

And again, you're saying the damn wiki page is wrong, it explicitly says Divination has to see the future itself, knowing the next move based or reading minds doesn't fit this criteria.

No I’m not, you’re just not understanding it… I like how your stuck in the whole reading minds part when it’s literally been stated multiple times that it’s more than that

They see/know the future by reading their “mind” that’s how haki works… advanced does the same thing

Anyway, I discussed this offsite and had other OP supporters agree Divination isn't the correct ability for Kenbu

Well I don’t know what the f type of show they’ve seen if they think that ability is anywhere near being analytical predictions

so I guess I will just agree to disagree with you and add that I may create a CRT for OP and the Precog page eventually.

Absolutely insane. Like there’s actually no way… even with all of the things I have brought up, people somehow will still question it? Like I swear some people need the creator himself to come and explain everything in a kids book

Literally the statement I got that differences between advanced forms to non advanced forms, it’s literally says common things people should know for beginners of one piece…

*THEBASICSofONEPIECE

Q1
悪魔の実を食べると人はどうなってしまうのか?

Q2
鏡も剣も効かない自然系能力者を倒す術は?

Q3
冒険者達が〝偉大なる航路〟を進むのはなぜか?

Q4
ルフィ達がめざす「ラフテル」とはどこにあるのか?

Q5
「扉絵連載」とは?本編との関係性は?

今さら聞けない『ONEPIECE』の基礎知識
『ONEPIECE』のストーリーや世界観を深く知るには欠かせない、5つの基礎をQ&A形式で伝授!『ONEPIECE』初心者は必ずチェックしておこう。

139_ONEPIECEmagazineVol.17|特集●1から追いつくONEPIECE
—————————————
THEBASICSofONEPIECE

Q1
What happens to people who eat devil's fruit?

Q2
How do you defeat a person with natural abilities for whom neither guns nor swords work?

Q3
Why do adventurers follow the "Great Passage"?

Q4
Where is the "Raftel" that Luffy and his friends are aiming for?

Q5
What is the "door picture serialization"? How does it relate to the main story?

Basic knowledge of "ONEPIECE" that you can't ask now
Five basics of "ONEPIECE" in Q&A format, which are indispensable for a deep understanding of the story and worldview of "ONEPIECE"! Be sure to check it out if you are a beginner of "ONEPIECE".

139_ONEPIECEmagazineVol.17|Feature Article●Catching up with ONEPIECE from scratch*

I think they might need something below beginner lvl cause ain’t no way…

 

[Aerozz]

@XDragnoir
So u want me to believe that luffy can read Pacifista's mind (The Kuma clones) when Luffy dodged the light speed attack? so luffy and any obs haki users can read the non living robots minds?
Coz its very obvious that luffy is predicting the future a lil bit of it.

Also luffy deflecting an axe coming toward Shirahoshi from far away (when luffy + others in the forest place under Fishman island)

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Interesting and knowledgeable video

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yall gotta be the lamest mfs ever to where nobody here spoke about the literal new anime revamp that's approaching when tonight was the release night for information

Ayy I just woke up … and now I’m kinda confused

The artstyle of the animation… is manga styled?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I like how much details and accuracy they’re bringing to the anime from the manga… creating a whole 3d map of the places with insane details is W

Hopefully it will at least be somewhat better than the original anime

 

[Aerozz]

The only thing im worried about now is the VAs like our VAs are so old like almost reaching 70s.
I know this is gonna be hard but i wish they will find young VAs for the crew i hope they at least find ones very similar to them. coz its gonna be a very long story/show where it will take years we are talking about 10+ years. The current VA will reach their 80s and their voice will lose alot of weight.
Its a very hard decision but it must be done.
I mean many people in the world can voice act Goofy , Donald duck and mickey mouse so its hopefully not that hard.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The only thing im worried about now is the VAs like our VAs are so old like almost reaching 70s.
I know this is gonna be hard but i wish they will find young VAs for the crew i hope they at least find ones very similar to them. coz its gonna be a very long story/show where it will take years we are talking about 10+ years. The current VA will reach their 80s and their voice will lose alot of weight.
Its a very hard decision but it must be done.
I mean many people in the world can voice act Goofy , Donald duck and mickey mouse so its hopefully not that hard.

Yee… finding new voices will be quite tricky I believe also… hopefully they can get that part right

I think it is confirmed that all the va will be new but not too sure

 

[Aerozz]

Yee… finding new voices will be quite tricky I believe also… hopefully they can get that part right

I think it is confirmed that all the va will be new but not too sure

They did indeed mention that.
I hope they were hinting that for the crew too. also The One piece is made for both new gen and old gen so it make sense to make slight differences for this one to have new VAs I mean lets be honest its mostly made for new gen

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Just realized that Foxy's ship is bigger than the Marine battleships... With a length of 100m

 

[KingTempest]

@XDragnoir
So u want me to believe that luffy can read Pacifista's mind (The Kuma clones) when Luffy dodged the light speed attack? so luffy and any obs haki users can read the non living robots minds?
Coz its very obvious that luffy is predicting the future a lil bit of it.

Also luffy deflecting an axe coming toward Shirahoshi from far away (when luffy + others in the forest place under Fishman island)

Pacifista aren’t just robot brains, they’re organic beings just like seraphim.

That’s called intent sensing. Sensing bad intention

 

[That_moron2]

Just realized that Foxy's ship is bigger than the Marine battleships... With a length of 100m

Where was Foxy's ship length stated?

 

[KingTempest]

Where was Foxy's ship length stated?

Luffy vs Foxy, showed a 100 m diameter ring that the ship was larger than on both sides

 

[Aerozz]

Pacifista aren’t just robot brains, they’re organic beings just like seraphim.

That’s called intent sensing. Sensing bad intention

How do u know? ur assuming tbh (on the pacificta having a mind to think of)
Also no i dont think they are like the seraphims and i dont think they have souls too and they dont think and only takes orders.
Coz in the case of seraphims lucci said or the others said that they can think with a limit but never were said to the normal pacificta they only take orders and do it just like a normal robot.

 

[KingTempest]

How do u know? ur assuming tbh (on the pacificta having a mind to think of)
Also no i dont think they are like the seraphims and i dont think they have souls too and they dont think and only takes orders.
Coz in the case of seraphims lucci said or the others said that they can think with a limit but never were said to the normal pacificta they only take orders and do it just like a normal robot.

Seraphim are literally branded with px marks. They are the same.

Not having free will when controlled doesn’t mean you don’t have your own damn mind.

It’s not an assumption it’s common sense.

 

[Aerozz]

Seraphim are literally branded with px marks. They are the same.

Not having free will when controlled doesn’t mean you don’t have your own damn mind.

It’s not an assumption it’s common sense.

No that doesnt matter at all on the px mark the seraphims are simply a better versions and they only have limited thinking.
But in the case of the normal pacfista they never think or even normally talk idk how u went to the conclusion that they can think??
we watched 100s of episodes and im pretty sure they dont have a mind on their own or a soul they are simply a robots.

 

[KingTempest]

No that doesnt matter at all on the px mark the seraphims are simply a better versions and they only have limited thinking.
But in the case of the normal pacfista they never think or even normally talk idk how u went to the conclusion that they can think??
we watched 100s of episodes and im pretty sure they dont have a mind on their own or a soul they are simply a robots.

Limited thinking means they have thoughts, which can be read.
Simple,

 

[Eminiteable]

Pacifista are literally just clones of Kuma

 

[Aerozz]

Limited thinking means they have thoughts, which can be read.
Simple,

This is applied to the seraphims and not the normal pacifista aka the kuma clones

 

[Aerozz]

Pacifista are literally just clones of Kuma

So what? that doesnt mean they will have a mind on their own and think? did we see that ? no the only thing we saw is they only take orders just like a normal robot.

 

[KingTempest]

This is applied to the seraphims and not the normal pacifista aka the kuma clones

Based on what

 

[Aerozz]

Based on what

We saw them all the time? the only thing they do is take orders and act as a robots we have never seen them think did we? answer if u can im repeating myself at this point.
The seraphims are the only pacfistas who can do a limit thinking and not the kuma clones
Other than that u can go ahead and give me facts or evidence on the kuma clones can think of their own.

 

[KingTempest]

We saw them all the time? the only thing they do is take orders and act as a robots we have never seen them think did we? answer if u can im repeating myself at this point.
The seraphims are the only pacfistas who can do a limit thinking and not the kuma clones
Other than that u can go ahead and give me facts or evidence on the kuma clones can think of their own.

I hate when people read what I say and don’t think about what I’m saying

I didn’t say they have free will. I said they have thoughs. You can be a ******* robot with thoughts. Mind controlled people have thoughts. Kuma was turned into a ******* robot and can still use Haki, spiritual energy. They can have uncontrollable and wired thoughts, but they’re still thoughts, and they can still be read.

Is that so hard to understand?

 

[Eminiteable]

So what? that doesnt mean they will have a mind on their own and think? did we see that ? no the only thing we saw is they only take orders just like a normal robot.

You're mixing up being having no mind and having no free will.

Taking orders and making actions are still thoughts and intent that can be read by observation haki.

 

[Aerozz]

I hate when people read what I say and don’t think about what I’m saying

I didn’t say they have free will. I said they have thoughs. You can be a ******* robot with thoughts. Mind controlled people have thoughts. Kuma was turned into a ******* robot and can still use Haki, spiritual energy. They can have uncontrollable and sited thoughts, but they’re still thoughts, and they can still be read.

Is that so hard to understand?

I hate when people say things on characters when they arent.
We have never saw them think did we? Kuma is a LIVING thing and not a clone How is it that hard to understand? (So going by your logic kuma's clones can use haki and can have kids etc)
Go ahead and show me an evidence that the clones of Kumas can think and show me the panels.
Its really not that hard.

 

[Aerozz]

You're mixing up being having no mind and having no free will.

Taking orders and making actions are still thoughts and intent that can be read by observation haki.

How is this different from a normal robot tho? the normal robot do the same?? they take orders and process it just like the kuma clones.

Edit: Ur like saying any haki user can read robot's mind. they know about the computer codes things and etc. wow the one piece characters are so smart didnt know that they can read computer's code and analyze it.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I hate when people read what I say and don’t think about what I’m saying

I didn’t say they have free will. I said they have thoughs. You can be a ******* robot with thoughts. Mind controlled people have thoughts. Kuma was turned into a ******* robot and can still use Haki, spiritual energy. They can have uncontrollable and wired thoughts, but they’re still thoughts, and they can still be read.

Is that so hard to understand?

You're mixing up being having no mind and having no free will.

Taking orders and making actions are still thoughts and intent that can be read by observation haki.

Too bad it's stated that the pacifista's have no thoughts so that observation haki will be ineffective on them (Me joking )

But yee, intent sensing would work... Even if it's someone else controlling/ordering something that has no mind... The intent/will of the attack still exists in the surroundings (kinda like how the emotions here are like small particles flowing out of them)

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

When there's Treasure, you know who to call (Straw Hats!)
From their ship, they can see it all (Straw Hats!)
When there's evil on the attack
You can rest knowing they got your back
Cause when the One Piece needs Pirates on patrol
Straw Hats, go!


With their Haki, they unite (Straw Hats!)
Never met a Noble that they liked (Straw hats!)
They've got the marines on the run
They never stop 'til the Quest gets done
'Cause when the world is losing all control
Straw Hats, go!
Straw Hats, go

 

[XDragnoir]

@XDragnoir
So u want me to believe that luffy can read Pacifista's mind (The Kuma clones) when Luffy dodged the light speed attack? so luffy and any obs haki users can read the non living robots minds?
Coz its very obvious that luffy is predicting the future a lil bit of it.

Also luffy deflecting an axe coming toward Shirahoshi from far away (when luffy + others in the forest place under Fishman island)

First, they're cyborgs, not robots, we have no idea how much of their brain is or isn't mechanical to my knowledge.

Second, Basic Kenbu isn't limited to reading minds, that's one of the main components but not the only one, read what I wrote instead of using strawmans.

Third, have you read One Piece? Luffy and every one in the damn verse can dodge stuff years before they unlock Kenbu, why are you assuming every dodging feat in the verse is 100% reliant on Kenbu? Go read Luffy vs Kuro or something like that, idk.

 

[XDragnoir]

Well I don’t know what the f type of show they’ve seen if they think that ability is anywhere near being analytical predictions

I really didn't plan to comment but like, can you just stop being condescending for a moment? No, a few weeks at least, although a few months would be even better.

You're not the owner of the truth about One Piece, they can disagree with whatever you say regardless of wtf it is, the fact you're jumping to conclusions here without knowing what they said or agreed with is the worst kind of attitude to have in any debate, twice as much because they in fact said it isn't analytical prediction, so you're doubly wrong.

 

[Kachon123]

 

[Aerozz]

First, they're cyborgs, not robots, we have no idea how much of their brain is or isn't mechanical to my knowledge.

Second, Basic Kenbu isn't limited to reading minds, that's one of the main components but not the only one, read what I wrote instead of using strawmans.

Third, have you read One Piece? Luffy and every one in the damn verse can dodge stuff years before they unlock Kenbu, why are you assuming every dodging feat in the verse is 100% reliant on Kenbu? Go read Luffy vs Kuro or something like that, idk.

Before i answer the 3 questions.
What i have gathered from u so far is u want us to believe that the normal obs (non advance haki) does not make u predict the future which i hardly disagree it has been implied 100s of chapters that it does make u see/read a bit or a moment of the future.

Now 1. Idk if its been confirmed that they are cyborgs or not but if it does that does not mean they have non robotic mind/computer, so they still have robotic things. you say "their brain is or isn't mechanical to my knowledge" .its funny on what u said coz all we saw from them is only getting a command and acts 100% robots and i believe its stated that they cannot think of their own i mean duh we do see that too unless u want to prove me wrong and give me a statement that they can think normally or limited thinking u can go ahead and show me.

2. Well Kenbu has prediction and its one of the main components other than the other things and yes i meant the basic kenbu. in case of the kuma clones the most logical thing is luffy did predict bit of the future to dodge the laser beam. its confirmed many times that kenbu can let u predict the future before the advanced one.

3. Have i read one piece? trust me i know way more than u do in one piece. I know people dodge laser beam without haki duh and i know luffy was near light speed pre timeskip. why am i assuming it was haki? coz Sentomaru said luffy was using HAKI unless u want me to believe that luffy was FTL+ (like 3+ times faster) the moment we hit the timeskip calling laser beams slow?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I really didn't plan to comment but like, can you just stop being condescending for a moment? No, a few weeks at least, although a few months would be even better.

You're not the owner of the truth about One Piece, they can disagree with whatever you say regardless of wtf it is, the fact you're jumping to conclusions here without knowing what they said or agreed with is the worst kind of attitude to have in any debate, twice as much because they in fact said it isn't analytical prediction, so you're doubly wrong.

Nothing I said was condescending, that was my expression of annoyedness of having to wake up to in my view to full on bs (as you even did literally lie, saying the heard their thoughts with the sensing voice thing). From my point of view you’ve been ignoring 95% of everything and focusing on the 5% to say that’s it’s analytical predictions

they can disagree with whatever you say regardless of wtf it is

ok and? Did I say they can’t?

the fact you're jumping to conclusions here without knowing what they said or agreed with is the worst kind of attitude to have in any debate

I don’t do debates. And I’m not talking about them who you talked to specifically, I’m talking about in general the mindset you would have to come to the conclusion that it is analytical predictions with the amount of information and evidence that’s it isn’t (As in it doesn't matter who agrees with you, the evidence that it's not analytical is still there)

You viewing it as a “debate” is the problem, I’m just explaining how it isn’t any where near analytical predictions with the information we have and wouldn’t understand how people would view it as such

I was kinda lowkey agreesive tho in my earlier post but ayy I can’t really control that, as it would kinda change what I’m trying to say

 

[XDragnoir]

Before i answer the 3 questions.
What i have gathered from u so far is u want us to believe that the normal obs (non advance haki) does not make u predict the future

Which means you really didn't read what I wrote even I single time, the discussion wasn't about predicting the future, it was about literally seeing it as Divination requires.

Now 1. Idk if its been confirmed that they are cyborgs or not but if it does that does not mean they have non robotic mind/computer, so they still have robotic things. you say "their brain is or isn't mechanical to my knowledge" .its funny on what u said coz all we saw from them is only getting a command and acts 100% robots and i believe its stated that they cannot think of their own i mean duh we do see that too unless u want to prove me wrong and give me a statement that they can think normally or limited thinking u can go ahead and show me.

Given you will claim you know more than me about OP slightly after this, how are you not aware that they're cyborgs? Did you jump Sabaody and not read Egghead? They being clones that went through cyborgnization (just like the Original Kuma) has been known by months now even ignoring Sabaody.

But this doesn't matter, they don't need to read minds to dodge stuff, drop this strawman.

Also, burden is on you to prove that their brain is fully mechanical, not on me.

2. Well Kenbu has prediction and its one of the main components other than the other things and yes i meant the basic kenbu. in case of the kuma clones the most logical thing is luffy did predict bit of the future to dodge the laser beam. its confirmed many times that kenbu can let u predict the future before the advanced one.

As I said above, you clearly didn't understand the discussion as it wasn't about predicting the future, but outright being able to see it, which only Advanced does.

Like, predicting ≠ seeing, this shouldn't be hard to get.

3. Have i read one piece? trust me i know way more than u do in one piece. I know people dodge laser beam without haki duh and i know luffy was near light speed pre timeskip. why am i assuming it was haki? coz Sentomaru said luffy was using HAKI unless u want me to believe that luffy was FTL+ (like 3+ times faster) the moment we hit the timeskip calling laser beams slow?

I don't think that feat was calculated at FTL+? Not sure really, but anyway, what's the point here? This added absolutely nothing to what I wrote on the 3rd point and like, Luffy dodged a beam from a Pacifista in the pre-timeskip while closer than this post-TS feat.

But let me say this again, and I will try to be as clear as possible:

Basic Kenbu can't see the future but it can do more than mind reading, so dodging attacks from actual robots (which the Pacifista aren't) is still possible through the use of Kenbu and would still be possible regardless because they have done similar feats even earlier, as I said above.

The conclusion as I said before, is that the two categories for Precognition aren't enough to describe what Kenbu and similar abilities can do (in OP itself the Breath falls under the same problem), so I definitely plan to try a revision for the ability in the future.