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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

Mr.Cinos15 said:
Like you would think that Haki would make Ace's flames black, but it just makes them stronger iirc.
Click to expand...
8574a4569dd0064dfac0019845125ac6.png
 
SlendVeny said:
Because Seastone drains Stamina off DF users, and he'd been there chained up in Impel Down's 6th level after he'd fought a guy who had just revealed his Offscreen Haki and new DF ability, abilities Ace wasn't sure about. Notice the bruises and scrapes on his body, indicating he had taken damage beforehand.
Click to expand...
I don't agree about seastone, law stated that this is how he was able to conserve his strength.

103-1.png
 
Mndks said:
I don't agree about seastone, law stated that this is how he was able to conserve his strength.

103-1.png
Click to expand...
law's devil fruit takes a toll on his stamina, so it could just mean he loses greater stamina using his devil fruit than having sea stone cuffs but he conserved his strength because of luffy doing everything for him, not because he had sea stone cuffs on
0758-004.png
0758-005.png
 
Last edited:
The_man_with_the_Midas_touch said:
Do ya'll think Kizaru woulda done better or worse than Kuzan if he were to fight Garp?
Click to expand...
Worse, because Shiryu and the boiz wouldn't help him, and there wouldn't be as much of an emotional moment between them, so they'd both go all out. That aside, let's look at the advantages and disadvantages of each:

AP: Pretty even. Kizaru uses less Buso, but he has acceleration to help him. However, Aokiji can amp his AP with ice in some ways.
Speed: Kizzy is faster and more mobile with his powers.
Dura: Even, but Kuzan uses more Buso.
LS: Even, but Kuzan could hypothetically lift more by creating ice structures to help him.
Stamina: Probably Kuzan, who has better feats.
Skill: Even, but Kuzan has better hand-to-hand
Kenbun: Even
Buso: Even, but Kuzan uses it more
Range: Kuzan has a longer range, but Borse has a better effective range against a mobile foe that's jumping around all the time.
Hax/Techniques:
-Kizaru has heat duraneg, which could burn holes through Sickbeard. He can create a sword, allowing him to outclass a fist-fighter via melee range. His "clones" are a tactic that helps overwhelm an opponent briefly. He has Danmaku that's hard to dodge. He can enhance the force of a kick through acceleration, and also by creating an explosion when he hits. He can also move very easily in his Logia Form.
-Aokiji typically freezes or brawls with people. His Logia Form is not very mobile. However, he has Ice Saber, which is similar to Kizaru's lightsaber. He also can create structures out of ice to slow or trap people, and can make other weapons to impale people. However, he also has a move called Ice Glove, where he coats his hand in ice.

All things considered, I think Kizaru has better odds. Kuzan kind of got BFR'd instantly because he just stood there until Garp was done monologuing. Then he kind of was just trying to get out of the hole as Garp kinda wiped the crew. And then he just stood there while Garp was talking, so Shiryu tried to kill Koby, and stabbed Garp with... a Black Blade? A Buso-infused blade? Idk, small time Impel Down thug. Kuzan finally intervened, and immediately did the same thing as Garp, two Buso punches, but Kuzan was smart enough to coat his hand in ice, making them even. When Kuzan walked back over, Garp immediately blitzed him, presumably with Soru, knocked him over with one hit, then started rushing through the buildings just like Kizaru did in Sabaody, but more violently, and then took out Pizzaro in one hit. Then all the Blackbeard Pirates on the island are shown standing around him, he's stabbed through the chest, and he's still laughing as he freezes. I genuinely don't think Kizaru is going to just stand around and let him sweep through the group, and I doubt he would be as easily kept down by distance. Plus, I don't think Garp is getting away from him very easily, plus the mobility and duraneg works better against him.


I also think Aokiji would have done better against Luffy. They both would have lost anyway though.
 
In 1088, Blackbeard goes "Ay, Koby, big man, I didn't see you there. Are you down for a scrap? I'd be really happy to fight you, my guy!" or something. Some real shit had to have happened for him to expect an actual fight.
 
SlendVeny said:
Worse, because Shiryu and the boiz wouldn't help him, and there wouldn't be as much of an emotional moment between them, so they'd both go all out. That aside, let's look at the advantages and disadvantages of each:

AP: Pretty even. Kizaru uses less Buso, but he has acceleration to help him. However, Aokiji can amp his AP with ice in some ways.
Speed: Kizzy is faster and more mobile with his powers.
Dura: Even, but Kuzan uses more Buso.
LS: Even, but Kuzan could hypothetically lift more by creating ice structures to help him.
Stamina: Probably Kuzan, who has better feats.
Skill: Even, but Kuzan has better hand-to-hand
Kenbun: Even
Buso: Even, but Kuzan uses it more
Range: Kuzan has a longer range, but Borse has a better effective range against a mobile foe that's jumping around all the time.
Hax/Techniques:
-Kizaru has heat duraneg, which could burn holes through Sickbeard. He can create a sword, allowing him to outclass a fist-fighter via melee range. His "clones" are a tactic that helps overwhelm an opponent briefly. He has Danmaku that's hard to dodge. He can enhance the force of a kick through acceleration, and also by creating an explosion when he hits. He can also move very easily in his Logia Form.
-Aokiji typically freezes or brawls with people. His Logia Form is not very mobile. However, he has Ice Saber, which is similar to Kizaru's lightsaber. He also can create structures out of ice to slow or trap people, and can make other weapons to impale people. However, he also has a move called Ice Glove, where he coats his hand in ice.

All things considered, I think Kizaru has better odds. Kuzan kind of got BFR'd instantly because he just stood there until Garp was done monologuing. Then he kind of was just trying to get out of the hole as Garp kinda wiped the crew. And then he just stood there while Garp was talking, so Shiryu tried to kill Koby, and stabbed Garp with... a Black Blade? A Buso-infused blade? Idk, small time Impel Down thug. Kuzan finally intervened, and immediately did the same thing as Garp, two Buso punches, but Kuzan was smart enough to coat his hand in ice, making them even. When Kuzan walked back over, Garp immediately blitzed him, presumably with Soru, knocked him over with one hit, then started rushing through the buildings just like Kizaru did in Sabaody, but more violently, and then took out Pizzaro in one hit. Then all the Blackbeard Pirates on the island are shown standing around him, he's stabbed through the chest, and he's still laughing as he freezes. I genuinely don't think Kizaru is going to just stand around and let him sweep through the group, and I doubt he would be as easily kept down by distance. Plus, I don't think Garp is getting away from him very easily, plus the mobility and duraneg works better against him.


I also think Aokiji would have done better against Luffy. They both would have lost anyway though.
Click to expand...
I hope I never write such a long message. I'm lazy
 
SlendVeny said:
Worse, because Shiryu and the boiz wouldn't help him, and there wouldn't be as much of an emotional moment between them, so they'd both go all out. That aside, let's look at the advantages and disadvantages of each:

AP: Pretty even. Kizaru uses less Buso, but he has acceleration to help him. However, Aokiji can amp his AP with ice in some ways.
Speed: Kizzy is faster and more mobile with his powers.
Dura: Even, but Kuzan uses more Buso.
LS: Even, but Kuzan could hypothetically lift more by creating ice structures to help him.
Stamina: Probably Kuzan, who has better feats.
Skill: Even, but Kuzan has better hand-to-hand
Kenbun: Even
Buso: Even, but Kuzan uses it more
Range: Kuzan has a longer range, but Borse has a better effective range against a mobile foe that's jumping around all the time.
Hax/Techniques:
-Kizaru has heat duraneg, which could burn holes through Sickbeard. He can create a sword, allowing him to outclass a fist-fighter via melee range. His "clones" are a tactic that helps overwhelm an opponent briefly. He has Danmaku that's hard to dodge. He can enhance the force of a kick through acceleration, and also by creating an explosion when he hits. He can also move very easily in his Logia Form.
-Aokiji typically freezes or brawls with people. His Logia Form is not very mobile. However, he has Ice Saber, which is similar to Kizaru's lightsaber. He also can create structures out of ice to slow or trap people, and can make other weapons to impale people. However, he also has a move called Ice Glove, where he coats his hand in ice.

All things considered, I think Kizaru has better odds. Kuzan kind of got BFR'd instantly because he just stood there until Garp was done monologuing. Then he kind of was just trying to get out of the hole as Garp kinda wiped the crew. And then he just stood there while Garp was talking, so Shiryu tried to kill Koby, and stabbed Garp with... a Black Blade? A Buso-infused blade? Idk, small time Impel Down thug. Kuzan finally intervened, and immediately did the same thing as Garp, two Buso punches, but Kuzan was smart enough to coat his hand in ice, making them even. When Kuzan walked back over, Garp immediately blitzed him, presumably with Soru, knocked him over with one hit, then started rushing through the buildings just like Kizaru did in Sabaody, but more violently, and then took out Pizzaro in one hit. Then all the Blackbeard Pirates on the island are shown standing around him, he's stabbed through the chest, and he's still laughing as he freezes. I genuinely don't think Kizaru is going to just stand around and let him sweep through the group, and I doubt he would be as easily kept down by distance. Plus, I don't think Garp is getting away from him very easily, plus the mobility and duraneg works better against him.


I also think Aokiji would have done better against Luffy. They both would have lost anyway though.
Click to expand...
Didn’t garp basically blitz aokiji with soru…? And then garp has insane adv con haki + arm haki

I see him easily doing the same thing gear 5 did with white star gun.
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
garp was able to blitz aokiji at times
Click to expand...
Idk why that's relevant is the thing. Kizaru is very explicitly faster than Kuzan via guidebook statements.

MonkeyOfLife said:
It’s not like gear 5 seemingly was able to
Click to expand...
And Kizaru was able to react to most of Gear Fifth's attacks during their initial fight, IIRC. Only getting caught off guard by Star-Gun. They're relative to each other in speed (outside of acceleration).
 
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