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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

Kachon123 said:
I honestly don't care about their individual placing. I just put Doji and Kin'emon as the strongest while Kiku as the weakest. The rest doesn't matter to me.
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Kin'emon is not the strongest, Denjiro and Kawamatsu annihilate him. And Kiku beats Raizo any day, probably comparable to Kin'emon too.
 
SlendVeny said:
Kin'emon is not the strongest, Denjiro and Kawamatsu annihilate him. And Kiku beats Raizo any day, probably comparable to Kin'emon too.
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Notice how they're not on the list. I could not find them. You're just nitpicking for no reason. It's especially weird why you're doing this when I LITERALLY said that I didn't think much about the last four tiers. You're making issues where there shouldn't be any since those are the the problems that you're pointing out.
 
Kachon123 said:
Notice how they're not on the list. I could not find them. You're just nitpicking for no reason. It's especially weird why you're doing this when I LITERALLY said that I didn't think much about the last four tiers. You're making issues where there shouldn't be any since those are the the problems that you're pointing out.
Click to expand...
I'm not making issues, I just genuinely want to hear your thoughts, since I find you pretty reasonable most of the time, and I found some of the placements a bit odd. If those ones are just quick placements you didn't really put much thought into, fair enough.
 
Kachon123 said:
Slend. Robin has far far far higher LS than any of the scabbards by far.

Their durability doesn't matter when Robin is literally snapping them from their joint locks. It's a form of durability bypassing and it's why people far weaker can beat far stronger than themselves by using submission holds.
Click to expand...
LS is an interesting point, especially considering her performance against Big Mom. Rare that we see people respect any stats other than AP, Dura, and Speed. I somewhat agree, and if you were including Hax and skill/technique, like Robin's ability to just kinda kill people instantly if she wants, that makes sense. Honestly, I would've brought up Fishman Karate if I were you, you would've got me with that.
 
Hmmm... I was looking at that cover for the One Piece Second Strongest Crewmates thing, and I realized something. Rayleigh is in his Old appearance. I know that's more iconic, but he was never Old Rayleigh when he was a Roger Pirate. I believe it meant strongest living/current crewmates, which explains why Marco is on there and not Kozuki Oden, even though Oden was a former Commander. Basically, it's the strongest people that never died or ditched them, and who have already shown up. That's why King was up there and not Yamato, who had technically been a Beast Pirate. However... I am not entirely against upscaling King from Yamato.
 
Speaking of Yamato, I personally think one of the reasons Yamato could never join is that it messes up the Monster Trio balance. As much as I'd like to see Luffy with two Odens, it just makes it weird when there's another Sanji/Zoro level fighter who's also another Luffy.
 
SlendVeny said:
Speaking of Yamato, I personally think one of the reasons Yamato could never join is that it messes up the Monster Trio balance. As much as I'd like to see Luffy with two Odens, it just makes it weird when there's another Sanji/Zoro level fighter who's also another Luffy.
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then sanji would be 5th in the crew... It wouldn't make sense and be harder to make connections compared to him being the 4th
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
then sanji would be 5th in the crew... It wouldn't make sense and be harder to make connections compared to him being the 4th
Click to expand...
This is delusion.

Yamato at her strongest is like as strong as Base Luffy w/o Hao at the very most.

Sanji was matching what Snakeman Luffy could do in terms of AP. At this point, Sanji and Zoro being > Yamato is such a lukewarm take.
 
Kachon123 said:
This is delusion.

Yamato at her strongest is like as strong as Base Luffy w/o Hao at the very most.

Sanji was matching what Snakeman Luffy could do in terms of AP. At this point, Sanji and Zoro being > Yamato is such a lukewarm take.
Click to expand...
bro did not disagree with sanji being the 4th in the crew 😅

Even kachon knows jinbe > sanji in strength!!! 🔥
 
Kachon123 said:
This is bait 😭 😭
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fishing-monkey.gif

And I'm also gonna cook with it!! 🔥
 
Kachon123 said:
This is delusion.

Yamato at her strongest is like as strong as Base Luffy w/o Hao at the very most.

Sanji was matching what Snakeman Luffy could do in terms of AP. At this point, Sanji and Zoro being > Yamato is such a lukewarm take.
Click to expand...
Personally, I think Yamato is probably Snakeman level.
 
Kachon123 said:
Screen_Shot_2024-02-06_at_6.27.10_PM.png


I have too much time on hand right now so I'll go ahead and give my reason for each rating...

Rocks: God tier of the verse. Lead a crew of monsters and is implied to be at least on Roger's level
Roger: Wealth, Fame, Power. He's a beast.
Whitebeard: World's Strongest Man and the man closest the the One Piece. Insanely strong. Clashed with Roger several times, although it's pretty clear that he's inferior due to his scars.
Mihawk: WSS tax. Has a Black Blade and 2 arms. Shanks does not have a Black Blade and has 1 arm. Mihawk should be at least this strong.
Dragon: Monkey D. tax. Vibe scaling I guess. Imo he should be at least relative to Prime Garp due to newer generations tending to be stronger than the last. He needs to be this strong to pose a threat to the World Government in the endgame if he participates physically.
Shanks: I don't need to explain why he's a God Tier. Made admirals twerk in fear from miles away.
Prime Garp: The true Hakiman. No special magic sword, no cyborgifications. Just hands and Haki. Clashed with a bunch of God Tiers on several occasions. Hero of the Marines.
Sakazuki: He's him. As Fleet Admiral, he needs to be strong enough to counteract all of the wild shit happening in the New World currently otherwise the story and narrative portrayal of the Navy would hold no weight. "The Navy Reign Supreme"

Blackbeard: Two of the strongest fruits. Can negate any devil fruit and has the strongest paramecia. Capable of mid diffing Law with offscreen Haki. Need to see more from him, but I have no doubts that he's this high, especially when he has Kuzan as a crewmate.
Luffy: The King.
Kaidou: Insane showings on Onigashima but is a bit on fraud watch due to being warded away by Shanks. His presence was able to ward off Admirals however, so he's not completely creditless.
Kuzan: Has physicals on par with Prime Garp and Haki on the level of Old Garp. On top of all this, he was able to nearly stalemate Sakazuki and has a really good devil fruit.
Big Mom: She's coming back in Elbaf don't worry.
Shiki: Stated to stand on the same level as legends like Whitebeard and Roger, but I just don't feel comfortable putting him in the God Tier category just yet.
Prime Sengoku: Roger said to bring him or Garp if the wanted a chance at beating him, so he should be at least this level. As fleet admiral, he should be at least on the level of Pre-Timeskip Admirals.
Prime Rayleigh: Implied to be a Haki God on the level of Shanks by Oda. Roger's second strongest man. Stated that he could probably beat Blackbeard.
Kizaru: Made Lucci believe that the Straw Hats had no chance at beating him despite getting twoshotted by Gear 5 Luffy moments earlier. Defeated Gear 4 Snakeman Luffy and could briefly clash with Gear 5 Luffy. Could take a couple attacks from Gear 5 Luffy and just keeps getting up. We'll probably see more from him now that him and Luffy may have a full-scale fight.
Old Whitebeard (NOT SICK): Far superior to anyone in his crew and could clash with Shanks' Advanced Haō. Old age is a b*tch though.
Gaban: As one of Roger's top 2 men I don't think it makes sense for him to be below the likes of any of Shanks or Luffy's top commanders. In the anime he stalemated Oden.

Aramaki: Hurts to put him this high, but as an Admiral he should be at least as strong as other folks in the Navy such as Current Garp and Sengoku... willing to change his rating.
Issho: Casually dealt with an enraged Sabo despite holding back and left with 0 injury or exhaustion while Sabo was bruised and tired. As an Admiral he should be at least as strong as other folks in the Navy such as Current Garp and Sengoku... willing to change his rating.
Current Garp: He's really ******* strong. Handled pretty much the entirety of Hachinosu and the majority of Blackbeard's commanders by himself.
Benn Beckman: Databookman has no feats, but as the strongest commander of Shanks, he should be around the level of the lower Admirals.
Zoro: Took out King. Scarred Kaidou before even having Advanced Haō. Scared a S-Hawk despite only using 2 swords and seemingly defeated him with relative ease. Currently dealing with Lucci. Superior AP than Oden. He's him.
Oden: Scarred Kaidou and traumatized him. His existence warded the Navy from entering Wano in fear of other strong Samurai like him. Travelled with both Roger and Whitebeard and was one of the strongest fighters on their ships.
Sanji: Really damn fast and really damn durable. Has good hax with regen, flight, and heat. Scared S-Shark with his sheer durability and seemingly injured him with a single kick. Defeated S-Shark with no injuries and was called "very strong" by Bonney simply based on his showings against him, implying that he dominated the fight. Deflected a strike from Saturn. Deflected a laser from Kizaru. Defeated Queen.
Law: Most broken devil fruit and also good Haki. Could fight Blackbeard and bring him to a mid diff fight despite having a garbage crew and being jumped. Put in the work against Big Mom.
Bullet: He was called equal to Prime Rayleigh but ehhhhhhhhh I don't buy it. This is good enough for him.
Boa Hancock: The strongest woman. 2 billion bounty. Solo'd Blackbeard's crew, seemingly warded off 2 Seraphim, defeated Koby's entire fleet, has all 3 types of Haki and they're likely all advanced. Not willing to change this rating. We need to start respecting Hancock.
Lucky Roux: Shanks' number 2 commander. He's kind of on fraud watch due to Shanks telling him to be careful of Kidd, but only time will tell how strong he is. I think this is good enough for him right now.

Crocodile: Cross Guild tax. Mihawk seems to dislike people who are weak and cocky. Crocodile is very cocky, but Mihawk has no issues with him, so it looks like he respects Crocodile's strength. He'll see how strong he's become soon.
Old Rayleigh: He's really impressive. Could briefly clash with a casual Kizaru and scared Blackbeard with a mix of his Haki and reputation, although he admitted that defeating him is out of the question. Old age hits like a truck though. His stamina is buns.
Sabo: As the number 2 of the Revolution Army, he should be really strong and probably on the level of Prime Kuma. Willing to change his rating though.
Brogy: Elbaf is soon. Him and Dorry are getting hyped up to be really strong. Alongside Dorry, he was seemingly trusted by Shanks to get the crew out of Egghead and bring them safely to Elbaf, so for right now he should be here.
Lucci: Could fight momentarily with Gear 5 Luffy I guess. Can fight with Enma Unleashed Zoro.
Current Sengoku: Just comparing an attack from Old Garp against Kuzan and an attack from Sengoku to Blackbeard, I struggle to put him as close to him as he was in his prime, but he should still be pretty strong.
King: Read Wano

Queen: Read Wano
Kidd: He's not as bad as people say, but comparing his own attacks against Big Mom to water drops on a stone isn't doing him any service here. He has really good endurance though.
Yamato: Strong but overated as hell. Could barely fight against a Kaidou that wasn't going all out, but could still take attacks and match the speed of his Thunder Bauga. Advanced Conqueror's tax.
Marco: Could fight King for a bit. Could harm Queen a bit. Stated that they both were difficult to handle, which makes it hard for me to put him solidly above either of them. "Give me freedom, give me fire, give me characters to stall or I retire"
Ace: I really wish I could put him higher since he has really good feats but he's getting stopped by Oda stating Marco to be the strongest Whitebeard Commander.
Vista: Mihawk's worst nightmare

Ivankov: As one of the pillars of the Revolutionary Army, I doubt he's FAR below the likes of Kuma and Sabo, but because of the lack of feats, he goes here.
Seraphim: Replaced the Warlords. They have King's DNA.
Jozu: He's strong, but even getting a free off-guard Haki-coated attack to Kuzan's face, he couldn't do more then bust his lip.
Shiryu: Could harm Old Garp I guess, but he's a small-time Impel down thug, so idk what to make of him yet.
Weevil: Stated to have physical strength on the level of Whitebeard, but he got taken out by Aramaki with relative ease, so idk. He should probably be relative to a severely weakened Base King and Base Queen.
Sentomaru: Could react to some of Kizaru's attacks and block a hit from a Kizaru who didn't yet resolve his will to put him down, and could recover from an attack from the same version of Kizaru. Was unable to deal real damage to a more serious Kizaru however and got oneshotted instantly. Implied to be inferior to the Seraphim. Was pretty much oneshot by Lucci.
Don't care enough to explain everyone else
Click to expand...
I have never seen X Drake so disrespected.
 
Kachon123 said:
Screen_Shot_2024-02-06_at_6.27.10_PM.png


I have too much time on hand right now so I'll go ahead and give my reason for each rating...

Rocks: God tier of the verse. Lead a crew of monsters and is implied to be at least on Roger's level
Roger: Wealth, Fame, Power. He's a beast.
Whitebeard: World's Strongest Man and the man closest the the One Piece. Insanely strong. Clashed with Roger several times, although it's pretty clear that he's inferior due to his scars.
Mihawk: WSS tax. Has a Black Blade and 2 arms. Shanks does not have a Black Blade and has 1 arm. Mihawk should be at least this strong.
Dragon: Monkey D. tax. Vibe scaling I guess. Imo he should be at least relative to Prime Garp due to newer generations tending to be stronger than the last. He needs to be this strong to pose a threat to the World Government in the endgame if he participates physically.
Shanks: I don't need to explain why he's a God Tier. Made admirals twerk in fear from miles away.
Prime Garp: The true Hakiman. No special magic sword, no cyborgifications. Just hands and Haki. Clashed with a bunch of God Tiers on several occasions. Hero of the Marines.
Sakazuki: He's him. As Fleet Admiral, he needs to be strong enough to counteract all of the wild shit happening in the New World currently otherwise the story and narrative portrayal of the Navy would hold no weight. "The Navy Reign Supreme"

Blackbeard: Two of the strongest fruits. Can negate any devil fruit and has the strongest paramecia. Capable of mid diffing Law with offscreen Haki. Need to see more from him, but I have no doubts that he's this high, especially when he has Kuzan as a crewmate.
Luffy: The King.
Kaidou: Insane showings on Onigashima but is a bit on fraud watch due to being warded away by Shanks. His presence was able to ward off Admirals however, so he's not completely creditless.
Kuzan: Has physicals on par with Prime Garp and Haki on the level of Old Garp. On top of all this, he was able to nearly stalemate Sakazuki and has a really good devil fruit.
Big Mom: She's coming back in Elbaf don't worry.
Shiki: Stated to stand on the same level as legends like Whitebeard and Roger, but I just don't feel comfortable putting him in the God Tier category just yet.
Prime Sengoku: Roger said to bring him or Garp if the wanted a chance at beating him, so he should be at least this level. As fleet admiral, he should be at least on the level of Pre-Timeskip Admirals.
Prime Rayleigh: Implied to be a Haki God on the level of Shanks by Oda. Roger's second strongest man. Stated that he could probably beat Blackbeard.
Kizaru: Made Lucci believe that the Straw Hats had no chance at beating him despite getting twoshotted by Gear 5 Luffy moments earlier. Defeated Gear 4 Snakeman Luffy and could briefly clash with Gear 5 Luffy. Could take a couple attacks from Gear 5 Luffy and just keeps getting up. We'll probably see more from him now that him and Luffy may have a full-scale fight.
Old Whitebeard (NOT SICK): Far superior to anyone in his crew and could clash with Shanks' Advanced Haō. Old age is a b*tch though.
Gaban: As one of Roger's top 2 men I don't think it makes sense for him to be below the likes of any of Shanks or Luffy's top commanders. In the anime he stalemated Oden.

Aramaki: Hurts to put him this high, but as an Admiral he should be at least as strong as other folks in the Navy such as Current Garp and Sengoku... willing to change his rating.
Issho: Casually dealt with an enraged Sabo despite holding back and left with 0 injury or exhaustion while Sabo was bruised and tired. As an Admiral he should be at least as strong as other folks in the Navy such as Current Garp and Sengoku... willing to change his rating.
Current Garp: He's really ******* strong. Handled pretty much the entirety of Hachinosu and the majority of Blackbeard's commanders by himself.
Benn Beckman: Databookman has no feats, but as the strongest commander of Shanks, he should be around the level of the lower Admirals.
Zoro: Took out King. Scarred Kaidou before even having Advanced Haō. Scared a S-Hawk despite only using 2 swords and seemingly defeated him with relative ease. Currently dealing with Lucci. Superior AP than Oden. He's him.
Oden: Scarred Kaidou and traumatized him. His existence warded the Navy from entering Wano in fear of other strong Samurai like him. Travelled with both Roger and Whitebeard and was one of the strongest fighters on their ships.
Sanji: Really damn fast and really damn durable. Has good hax with regen, flight, and heat. Scared S-Shark with his sheer durability and seemingly injured him with a single kick. Defeated S-Shark with no injuries and was called "very strong" by Bonney simply based on his showings against him, implying that he dominated the fight. Deflected a strike from Saturn. Deflected a laser from Kizaru. Defeated Queen.
Law: Most broken devil fruit and also good Haki. Could fight Blackbeard and bring him to a mid diff fight despite having a garbage crew and being jumped. Put in the work against Big Mom.
Bullet: He was called equal to Prime Rayleigh but ehhhhhhhhh I don't buy it. This is good enough for him.
Boa Hancock: The strongest woman. 2 billion bounty. Solo'd Blackbeard's crew, seemingly warded off 2 Seraphim, defeated Koby's entire fleet, has all 3 types of Haki and they're likely all advanced. Not willing to change this rating. We need to start respecting Hancock.
Lucky Roux: Shanks' number 2 commander. He's kind of on fraud watch due to Shanks telling him to be careful of Kidd, but only time will tell how strong he is. I think this is good enough for him right now.

Crocodile: Cross Guild tax. Mihawk seems to dislike people who are weak and cocky. Crocodile is very cocky, but Mihawk has no issues with him, so it looks like he respects Crocodile's strength. He'll see how strong he's become soon.
Old Rayleigh: He's really impressive. Could briefly clash with a casual Kizaru and scared Blackbeard with a mix of his Haki and reputation, although he admitted that defeating him is out of the question. Old age hits like a truck though. His stamina is buns.
Sabo: As the number 2 of the Revolution Army, he should be really strong and probably on the level of Prime Kuma. Willing to change his rating though.
Brogy: Elbaf is soon. Him and Dorry are getting hyped up to be really strong. Alongside Dorry, he was seemingly trusted by Shanks to get the crew out of Egghead and bring them safely to Elbaf, so for right now he should be here.
Lucci: Could fight momentarily with Gear 5 Luffy I guess. Can fight with Enma Unleashed Zoro.
Current Sengoku: Just comparing an attack from Old Garp against Kuzan and an attack from Sengoku to Blackbeard, I struggle to put him as close to him as he was in his prime, but he should still be pretty strong.
King: Read Wano

Queen: Read Wano
Kidd: He's not as bad as people say, but comparing his own attacks against Big Mom to water drops on a stone isn't doing him any service here. He has really good endurance though.
Yamato: Strong but overated as hell. Could barely fight against a Kaidou that wasn't going all out, but could still take attacks and match the speed of his Thunder Bauga. Advanced Conqueror's tax.
Marco: Could fight King for a bit. Could harm Queen a bit. Stated that they both were difficult to handle, which makes it hard for me to put him solidly above either of them. "Give me freedom, give me fire, give me characters to stall or I retire"
Ace: I really wish I could put him higher since he has really good feats but he's getting stopped by Oda stating Marco to be the strongest Whitebeard Commander.
Vista: Mihawk's worst nightmare

Ivankov: As one of the pillars of the Revolutionary Army, I doubt he's FAR below the likes of Kuma and Sabo, but because of the lack of feats, he goes here.
Seraphim: Replaced the Warlords. They have King's DNA.
Jozu: He's strong, but even getting a free off-guard Haki-coated attack to Kuzan's face, he couldn't do more then bust his lip.
Shiryu: Could harm Old Garp I guess, but he's a small-time Impel down thug, so idk what to make of him yet.
Weevil: Stated to have physical strength on the level of Whitebeard, but he got taken out by Aramaki with relative ease, so idk. He should probably be relative to a severely weakened Base King and Base Queen.
Sentomaru: Could react to some of Kizaru's attacks and block a hit from a Kizaru who didn't yet resolve his will to put him down, and could recover from an attack from the same version of Kizaru. Was unable to deal real damage to a more serious Kizaru however and got oneshotted instantly. Implied to be inferior to the Seraphim. Was pretty much oneshot by Lucci.
Don't care enough to explain everyone else
Click to expand...
I know you would expect my first and most prominent issue with this to be Sanji's placement, but even though his placement is blatantly wrong, I can't take my eyes off Lucci being above Sengoku, King and Yamato, Kaidou below Luffy and Blackbeard, Big Mom below Kuzan and BB, etc.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
I know you would expect my first and most prominent issue with this to be Sanji's placement, but even though his placement is blatantly wrong, I can't take my eyes off Lucci being above Sengoku, King and Yamato, Kaidou below Luffy and Blackbeard, Big Mom below Kuzan and BB, etc.
Click to expand...
You don't get it, Sanji is where he's meant to be, everyone else is in the wrong spot.
 
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