One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[joshpiece]

Yes calling me ******** as an argument solid choice

 

[Ebitan34]

Yes calling me ******** as an argument solid choice

When you know you have lost the argument and start distracting yourself:

 

[joshpiece]

Sure keep thinking Kat can tank hits from Big Mom I don't need you conceding to know I'm right.

 

[Ebitan34]

Sure keep thinking Kat can tank hits from Big Mom I don't need you conceding to know I'm right.

I don't have anything to say to someone who doesn't understand Logia/Paramecia intangibility and assumes that big Mom's haki-less attacks that Kidd "tanked" would even damage Kata.

 

[WrongIdea21]

I have been seen Katakuri Kicking Luffy Face Without Any Haki and Its Hurting Luffy.

I think the Reason Why Mama isn't Using Haki to Kid, because she Underestimate him.

 

[Ebitan34]

I have been seen Katakuri Kicking Luffy Face Without Any Haki and Its Hurting Luffy.

I think the Reason Why Mama isn't Using Haki to Kid, because she Underestimate him.

Can you really tell if Kata didn't use Haki from his Black boots though? Also Kata's kicks have sharp spikes iirc, and Luffy isn't resistant to piercing attacks.

We could clearly tell Big mom didn't use CoA because her pale hand had no Haki shadings when she attacked Kidd.

And yeah, I think that could be a reason. (Well nothing wrong with underestimating featless Kidd anyways, he doesn't bite)

 

[WrongIdea21]

Can you really tell if Kata didn't use Haki from his Black boots though

I dont know if this Is Using Haki Or nah

We could clearly tell Big mom didn't use CoA because her pale hand had no Haki shadings when she attacked Kidd.

Isn't Mama Still 6B Without Using Any Haki?

 

[WrongIdea21]

Btw guys, Is Chopper Scale To Queen since Chopper Punch Capable To Hurting him ?

 

[joshpiece]

Isn't Mama Still 6B Without Using Any Haki?

yes iirc

Btw guys, Is Chopper Scale To Queen since Chopper Punch Capable To Hurting him ?

we'll discuss this in the big Wano revision once the Arc/Raid is over. Although I'm hesitant to Scale him to Queen fully considering he was getting beat down by Marco shortly before that.

 

[Ebitan34]

I dont know if this Is Using Haki Or nah



Isn't Mama Still 6B Without Using Any Haki?

Oof yeah the panel isn't obvious. But difference is Kata's kick had black boots, while Big Mom's attack was with barehands, which clearly had no Haki.

How is Mama 6B without any Haki though? 6-B was scaled from WB/BB's strongest Quake feat right? I don't think Big Mom's Haki-less casual attack = to WB's strongest attack.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Oof yeah the panel isn't obvious. But difference is Kata's kick had black boots

Black boots means using Haki?

while Big Mom's attack was with barehands, which clearly had no Haki.

Luffy did Kicking Katakuri Jaw without Using Any haki and Bleeding

How is Mama 6B without any Haki though? 6-B was scaled from WB/BB's strongest Quake feat right? I don't think Big Mom's Haki-less casual attack = to WB's strongest attack.

Since that's Not Writting on her Profile, Shouldn't We make a CRT For it?

 

[WrongIdea21]

Luffy did Kicking Katakuri Jaw without Using Any haki and Bleeding

Sorry for this, I forgot he using Haki

 

[Frogthejam19]

Zoro wank is hilarious. Zoro has nothing to do against being drowned with awakened mochi. He has no speed feats suggesting that he can even tag Katakuri. And no, Zoro isn't one shotting Katakuri. Katakuri Pierced himself with Mogura and was still out speeding Luffy in his Snake Man form. The whole Roof Top Level bull shit is to wank Zoro. Roof Top Feats should be taken with a grain of salt the size of rock due to how much PIS was involved in that fight.

Katakuri HIgh Diffs Zoro until he gets 1v1 feats while not being helped or having that advantage of having 4 other people for his opponent to worry about.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Damnnnn, So All Roof top Feats Going to Be PIS?

 

[joshpiece]

Damnnnn, So All Roof top Feats Going to Be PIS?

No none of them are PIS

 

[Ebitan34]

Black boots means using Haki?

Luffy did Kicking Katakuri Jaw without Using Any haki and Bleeding

Since that's Not Writting on her Profile, Shouldn't We make a CRT For it?

It isn't clear, but Haki is black too, so it isn't illogical to think that there was Haki, but the black boot's color covered it.

Like Sanji has always been using Haki, but his Black shoes tend to hide it.

No need for CRT though since the stats on her profile represent her strongest feats. Since she is = to Whitebeard, it is natural that her strongest attack will be
6-B. We don't take characters' low End feats into account, we look at their strongest attacks. So this also means that Big Mom is 6-B at her best, meaning her strongest attacks, not her casual Haki-less attacks. If the 6-B already meant her Haki-less attacks, she would already have the key At Least 6-B without Haki, likely higher with Haki.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Imagine being so mad that Zoro finally got good feats Post-TS, with absolutely no anti-feats whatsoever under his belt, that you unironically accuse Oda of "wanking" his own characters lmao.
Bro, I'm sorry, but personal headcanon, interpretation, and opinions will NEVER, ever, take precedence over what Oda chooses to portray, provided there are no blatant contradictions.
Speaking of which, pray tell, how on earth is Zoro's first serious showing Post-TS, equipped with a new blade, new form of Haki, and using his strongest attacks/amps supposed to be PIS? Like my God, the lengths people go to in order to dismiss and discredit Zoro are ******* hilarious to me.

I think people seriously need to put their preconceived notions and biases in check, and try to look at things more objectively. Sorry if I came off as hostile or rude, that's not my intention at all, but sometimes things just get me boiling lmao.

 

[joshpiece]

It’s almost as if Zoro had 2 full years of training from a person who scales above the Yonko

yeah clear PIS Zoro only did that cus he was allowed to charge Enma

 

[Ebitan34]

Zoro is definitely an AP monster. His rooftop feats were just insane. Imo he now has the AP of an admiral, he just needs to brush up on his durability (which is by no means weak, but still not at Admiral level yet), improve his CoO, speed and master ACoC and he would easily be Admiral Tier, or maybe even Yonko Tier in the future. who knows?

In my books current Zoro has Admiral tier AP, and YC1 tier stats in everything else.

 

[WrongIdea21]

It isn't clear, but Haki is black too, so it isn't illogical to think that there was Haki, but the black boot's color covered it.

Like Sanji has always been using Haki, but his Black shoes tend to hide it.

Isn't Sanji Only Using Haki for Diable Jambe?

No need for CRT though since the stats on her profile represent her strongest feats. Since she is = to Whitebeard, it is natural that her strongest attack will be
6-B. We don't take characters' low End feats into account, we look at their strongest attacks. So this also means that Big Mom is 6-B at her best, meaning her strongest attacks, not her casual Haki-less attacks. If the 6-B already meant her Haki-less attacks, she would already have the key At Least 6-B without Haki, likely higher with Haki.

We need To fix it, like At Least 7-A, 6-B With Haki.

 

[Ebitan34]

Isn't Sanji Only Using Haki for Diable Jambe?

We need To fix it, like At Least 7-A, 6-B With Haki.

1) No idea honestly, and we can't tell I guess. Though I think he should be using Haki frequently?

2) I mean, 6-B is fine, we don't need her weaker feats imo, though there were people talking about making separate keys for Haki and Non Haki attacks, which I am not up to date with.

 

[XDragnoir]

Big Mom would 1-shot Kat. Stop making insane claims trying to wank a 7-A saying he could no sell a hit from a 6-B

I jumped most of the thread so idk if anyone said this, but Tempest did a thread to downgrade Chopper's durability and there it was agreed that BM scales to 6B with her Sword/Homies, not her bare hands, these are 7A+ for hitting Luffy earlier in Wano. It's not a 6B feat for Kid.

 

[WrongIdea21]

I mean, 6-B is fine, we don't need her weaker feats imo, though there were people talking about making separate keys for Haki and Non Haki attacks, which I am not up to date with.

So what's the Conclusion For Kid Tanking Mama Punch? Or should we Put it into Outlier Case?

 

[XDragnoir]

So what's the Conclusion For Kid Tanking Mama Punch? Or should we Put it into Outlier Case?

7A+ feat for Kid.


Damn, i will do the thread to talk about BM's tier, it has reached a really stupid point where nothing is at the tier you would expect, and her profile helps in absolutely nothing.

 

[WrongIdea21]

I jumped most of the thread so idk if anyone said this, but Tempest did a thread to downgrade Chopper's durability and there it was agreed that BM scales to 6B with her Sword/Homies, not her bare hands, these are 7A+ for hitting Luffy earlier in Wano. It's not a 6B feat for Kid.

Isn't Sanji Only Using Haki for Diable Jambe?

We need To fix it, like At Least 7-A, 6-B With Haki.

What do you think about this

 

[XDragnoir]

From the the thread it was discussed everyone agreed 6B is specifically for BM+Napo (for clashing with Kaido, who i think is 6B with everything), so idk if just adding Haki makes her that strong since i doubt Paypay would be "just" KOed if haki was that big of an Amp (technically we don't know if he is alive, but whatever).

 

[WrongIdea21]

From the the thread it was discussed everyone agreed 6B is specifically for BM+Napo (for clashing with Kaido, who i think is 6B with everything), so idk if just adding Haki makes her that strong since i doubt Paypay would be "just" KOed if haki was that big of an Amp (technically we don't know if he is alive, but whatever).

Ok then

 

[KingTempest]

I guess we should also scale the fodder that jumped WB in MF to WB then. Katakuri's 1v1 feats are still vastly superior to any of the feats of the SN not named Luffy.

He just scaled a bunch of people who hurt Kaido on their own with no dura neg and it was a plot point to hurt kaido to the goofs who fought a half dead whitebeard and needed multiple attacks to kill him

 

[KingTempest]

I'll discuss Big Mom's scaling. There's more to Ap scaling then feats.

 

[Damage3245]

There's more to Ap scaling then feats.

True, but they're just so nice to have when they're available.

 

[XDragnoir]

I'll discuss Big Mom's scaling. There's more to Ap scaling then feats.

More than feats? Do you mean statements?

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Apparently you don't need Haki to hit characters with Logia/Paramecia intangibility now..

And now apparently Big Mom's casual strikes rival that of Old WB's greatest punch..

Requoting my post because you can't read:

So far Big Mom's attacks on Kidd were NOT Haki infused, which means Katakuri would no sell them by default via intangiblity. It has nothing to do with it being 6-B or anything. Also nice strawman trying to insinuate that I am arguing for 6-B Kata when I literally didn't mention anything about it. And nice try trying to imply that ALL of big mom's attacks including her casual punches are 6-B when it took WB's most powerful attack to even reach that AP.

Which part of this do you not understand.

You realize Zoro hit Kaido who's FTL right? Katakuri is only Rel+ I hope you realize that. Regardless of what argument you bring up to wank katakuri, zoro will hit him. If he's able to hit kaido who's FASTER than FUTURE sight, he will 100% hit katakuri.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

It isn't clear, but Haki is black too, so it isn't illogical to think that there was Haki, but the black boot's color covered it.

Like Sanji has always been using Haki, but his Black shoes tend to hide it.

No need for CRT though since the stats on her profile represent her strongest feats. Since she is = to Whitebeard, it is natural that her strongest attack will be
6-B. We don't take characters' low End feats into account, we look at their strongest attacks. So this also means that Big Mom is 6-B at her best, meaning her strongest attacks, not her casual Haki-less attacks. If the 6-B already meant her Haki-less attacks, she would already have the key At Least 6-B without Haki, likely higher with Haki.

Isn't Sanji Only Using Haki for Diable Jambe?

We need To fix it, like At Least 7-A, 6-B With Haki.

I don't think you guys realize how AP feats work.... not to mention we scale them to WHITEBEARD'S quakes not to mention feats he pulled off casually were 26 teratons, the two tsunamis he casually pulled off when arriving to marineford. I don't even think their profiles are WITH HAKI. Regardless they would be "6-B, higher with Haki"

 

[WrongIdea21]

I don't even think their profiles are WITH HAKI.

Me too

 

[LordGinSama]

"With Haki" isn't a rating we've implemented.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Me too

Yeah, but that's why we can't say "7-A, 6-B with Haki" because we scale them to whitebeard's tsunamis which were
1. Casual
2. Doesn't have anything to do with haki.
The yonko would be 6-B normally regardless, and higher to an unquantifiable degree with haki.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Yeah, but that's why we can't say "7-A, 6-B with Haki" because we scale them to whitebeard's tsunamis which were
1. Casual
2. Doesn't have anything to do with haki.
The yonko would be 6-B normally regardless, and higher to an unquantifiable degree with haki.

Agree with this.

 

[Ebitan34]

You realize Zoro hit Kaido who's FTL right? Katakuri is only Rel+ I hope you realize that. Regardless of what argument you bring up to wank katakuri, zoro will hit him. If he's able to hit kaido who's FASTER than FUTURE sight, he will 100% hit katakuri.

Zoro can hit Kaido because Kaido doesn't dodge hits...he tanks them. Regardless how fast Kaido is compared to Zoro doesn't matter because it is in character for Kaido to tank every hit, with only one exception from Luffy.

I bet you that even if it is Captain Kuro trying to hit Kaido, he will hit Kaido too because Kaido doesn't dodge hits, it contradicts his entire fighting style.

From on panel feats, Kaido only uses his speed to blitz enemies, and no one on the rooftop has been able to 100% evade his attacks yet so they don't scale.
In fact, Kaido freakin speedblitzed all of them including Luffy.

Zoro doesn't scale to FTL Kaido because he never evaded Kaido's attacks, he only managed to land hits on Kaido simply due to Kaido's fighting style.

 

[Eminiteable]

can hit Kaido because Kaido doesn't dodge hits...he tanks them. Regardless how fast Kaido is compared to Zoro doesn't matter because it is in character for Kaido to tank every hit, with only one exception from Luffy.

You're forgetting Hiryu Kaen where he dodged.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Zoro can hit Kaido because Kaido doesn't dodge hits...he tanks them. Regardless how fast Kaido is compared to Zoro doesn't matter because it is in character for Kaido to tank every hit, with only one exception from Luffy.

I bet you that even if it is Captain Kuro trying to hit Kaido, he will hit Kaido too because Kaido doesn't dodge hits, it contradicts his entire fighting style.

From on panel feats, Kaido only uses his speed to blitz enemies, and no one on the rooftop has been able to 100% evade his attacks yet so they don't scale.
In fact, Kaido freakin speedblitzed all of them including Luffy.

Zoro doesn't scale to FTL Kaido because he never evaded Kaido's attacks, he only managed to land hits on Kaido simply due to Kaido's fighting style.

Okay so if you even don't consider Zoro FTL, why would still have the haki to hit him. You made the false assumption that Katakuri wouldn't even slip up once. As we spoke about above in AP, katakuri at best could be High 6-C, which is 184 GT. Zoro scales to Kaido for the reasons Emin brought above, which you haven't proved wrong. Katakuri has no ap to even touch zoro, you would have to prove Katakuri to be 6-B, in order for him to even hurt zoro.