One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[Sus]

using anime scaling
hera stopped injection shot
promethues overpowered punk gibson
napoleon overpowered law and kidd

on top of napoleon shattering the shi out of punk rotten (which is in the manga)

i kinda imagine their off screen fight being law and kidd trying their best to dodge

 

[DaMonkeMan]

That shit got retconned anyway.

Yeah I realized that after I typed it.
But if Oda still decides to make it blood even after the retcon in the non-colored one then it's not a retcon/

 

[Sus]

so what if it was blood? is marco > enma now?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Idk man..

 

[Sus]

relooking at feats i think the king queen zoro and sanji scaling chain goes like
base queen < base king ~ base sanji < zoan queen < diable jambe ~ bosu zoro ~ king with a sword
idk where to put base zoro because his feats are blocking random slashes from king

 

[Eseseso]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/wildfire-vs-demon-heir-king-vs-douglas-bullet.152020/

relooking at feats i think the king queen zoro and sanji scaling chain goes like
base queen < base king ~ base sanji < zoan queen < diable jambe

This checks out.

~ bosu zoro ~ king with a sword

Not sure this checks out.

Buso Zoro simply has much better feats in both Wano keys, since Sanji matching King with a sword is sadly anime only.

idk where to put base zoro because his feats are blocking random slashes from king

He also blocked an attack from Hybrid King that hurt Zoan Queen but got sent flying, so he's somewhere between Base Sanji and Base Queen.

 

[Sus]

Not sure this checks out.

its accepted (at least for early fight zoro

Buso Zoro simply has much better feats in both Wano keys, since Sanji matching King with a sword is sadly anime only.

sanji isnt even in the part you quoted

He also blocked an attack from Hybrid King that hurt Zoan Queen but got sent flying, so he's somewhere between Base Sanji and Base Queen.

maybe

 

[Sus]

oh you meant bosu zoro scaling to diable jambe
which do you think is stronger?
and what are the anime only feats in wano cuz i dont really watch anime

 

[Eseseso]

its accepted (at least for early fight zoro

sanji isnt even in the part you quoted

I meant this part:

diable jambe ~ bosu zoro

My apologies for not stating it properly.

I know Buso Zoro = Sword King in the early fight, but DJ Sanji doesn't have anything on that scaling level besides King and Queen being implied to be comparable.

maybe

 

[Eseseso]

oh you meant bosu zoro scaling to diable jambe
which do you think is stronger?

Buso Zoro.

Even if Zoan Queen got the god-tier scaling from stuff like cracking BM's skull, Zoro blocked a Kaifu (which scales above Zoan Kaido's physical AP) and was implied to be >= Base Kidd, Killer, Base Law, and Base Luffy's durability when he blocked the Hakai temporarily, since they all couldn't do shit about it.

Kidd, a grade-a asshole, even thanked Zoro for blocking it, implying that he couldn't have done it himself.

And this was a weaker key of Zoro, while the early King fight Buso Zoro could break King's suit that tanked a Blue Bird from Marco.

and what are the anime only feats in wano cuz i dont really watch anime

 

[Sus]

DJ Sanji doesn't have anything on that scaling level besides King and Queen being implied to be comparable.

and why is base king > zoan queen?

(which scales above Zoan Kaido's physical AP)

ehhhh

and was implied to be >= Base Kidd, Killer, Base Law, and Base Luffy's durability when he blocked the Hakai temporarily, since they all couldn't do shit about it.

they all survived hits from emperors i dont see zoro scaling above that

And this was a weaker key of Zoro, while the early King fight Buso Zoro could break King's suit that tanked a Blue Bird from Marco.

marco fought king who clashed with zoro idk if breaking a small horn enough to say zoro > marco

 

[Sus]

while id say its fine to include anime feats that dont contradict the manga, its not allowed here so meh

 

[Eseseso]

and why is base king > zoan queen?

Nothing directly saying it (and it only applies to King with a sword, without a sword you could argue Zoan Queen is better for overpowering Base Sanji), but with a Sword, King sliced Marco's wing while Queen couldn't do shit.

ehhhh

Kiku took off-screen hits from Zoan Kaido, and she scales to Kawamatsu who took a slap from Dragon Kaido with light injuries, yet one Kaifu one-shot her by instantly cutting her arm off and bisecting her blade.

Also, it's supported by the fact that Kaido used the Kaifu only after he got serious, which was after his scar was somewhat reopened by the Scabbards' Paradise Waterfall.

they all survived hits from emperors i dont see zoro scaling above that

He scales relative to the other supernovas' base durability/AP, epecially since Hakai is a uniquely powerful move since it's Kaido and BM in forms far above their base combining their AP into one focused attack.

marco fought king who clashed with zoro idk if breaking a small horn enough to say zoro > marco

Bluebird did nothing to the suit, Early Fight Buso Zoro broke it twice (and I was referring to when he "fought" Hybrid King and broke a decent chunk of the suit before King slapped his shit), and King-of-Hell Zoro easily sliced that suit into tatters.

 

[Sus]

Nothing directly saying it (and it only applies to King with a sword, without a sword you could argue Zoan Queen is better for overpowering Base Sanji), but with a Sword, King sliced Marco's wing while Queen couldn't do shit.

if zoan queen ~ base king without a sword why would king wielding a sword suddenly make him way stronger

Kiku took off-screen hits from Zoan Kaido, and she scales to Kawamatsu who took a slap from Dragon Kaido with light injuries, yet one Kaifu one-shot her by instantly cutting her arm off and bisecting her blade.

this isnt my issue, my issue is scaling characters to emperors when theyre no where near close

He scales relative to the other supernovas' base durability/AP, epecially since Hakai is a uniquely powerful move since it's Kaido and BM in forms far above their base combining their AP into one focused attack.

thats the problem zoro doesnt scale to emperors the best you could argue is post med bosu zoro ~ no homies big mom and even that makes little sense

Bluebird did nothing to the suit, Early Fight Buso Zoro broke it twice (and I was referring to when he "fought" Hybrid King and broke a decent chunk of the suit before King slapped his shit), and King-of-Hell Zoro easily sliced that suit into tatters.

id argue overtime damage but sure

 

[Kachon123]

King sliced Marco's wing

The wing made entirely of flames?

That's like scaling Crocodile to Akainu for slicing him in half during marineford.

 

[Sus]

The wing made entirely of flames?

That's like scaling Crocodile to Akainu for slicing him in half during marineford.

i always assumed zoan marco is just fire but apperantly he isnt

 

[Eseseso]

The wing made entirely of flames?

That's like scaling Crocodile to Akainu for slicing him in half during marineford.

I didn't put that in the scaling, that was there since the OG Wano revisions.

I even once said it shouldn't be used, but KT and some others said no.

 

[Sus]

while id say its fine to include anime feats that dont contradict the manga, its not allowed here so meh

what do yall think?

 

[Kachon123]

i always assumed zoan marco is just fire but apperantly he isnt

He's just regular Marco covered in flames.

 

[Kachon123]

what do yall think?

I agree. Especially if they're explicitly expanding on something that was off screened in the manga.

 

[Eseseso]

if zoan queen ~ base king without a sword why would king wielding a sword suddenly make him way stronger

Wish I knew.

But Zoro's Buso is vastly above his base, and when he with no Haki blocked King's sword attack meant for Sanji, King was only using 1 arm in the slice when he used 2 to slice Marco's wing.

And Zoro's Buso is usually a one-shot gap above his base (like against Pica and Killer)

this isnt my issue, my issue is scaling characters to emperors when theyre no where near close

thats the problem zoro doesnt scale to emperors the best you could argue is post med bosu zoro ~ no homies big mom and even that makes little sense

He doesn't scale to the Hakai, he just scales at least relative to the other 4 Supernova with his buso.

id argue overtime damage but sure

Not really.

 

[Kachon123]

King sliced Marco's wing while Queen couldn't do shit.

Also this is just wrong.

If we're using Marco's flames to scale, then Queen's getting gun blew several holes through Marco's fire.

 

[Sus]

He's just regular Marco covered in flames.

my idea of his df that he's a regular zoan but the zoan he turns to is made of fire
but again i seem to be wrong

he just scales at least relative to the other 4 Supernova with his buso.

the 4 supernova scale to emperors in durability

 

[Eseseso]

I agree. Especially if they're explicitly expanding on something that was off screened in the manga.

I mean, I think that the safest argument is this:

Sanji clearly took hits from Queen AND King off-screen.

Zoan Queen can hurt pre-exoskeleton Sanji.

DJ Pre-Exoskeleton Sanji matched and hurt Zoan Queen.

King w/ sword = Sanji's durability (pre-exoskeleton) = Zoan Queen =< DJ Sanji (Pre-exoskeleton)

Also this is just wrong.

If we're using Marco's flames to scale, then Queen's getting gun blew several holes through Marco's fire.

Scan?

And like I said, as much as I love King, I wasn't the one who put that wing-slicing stuff in the OG scaling CRT.

 

[Eseseso]

the 4 supernova scale to emperors in durability

They're comparable and scale to the same value, but they're still weaker.

 

[Sus]

i dont see any compelling arguement to say that zoan queen ~ base king when theyre comparable without weapons

 

[Sus]

They're comparable and scale to the same value, but they're still weaker.

not sure i get it, throw a scaling chain

 

[Kachon123]

Scan?

 

[Ped2018]

not sure i get it, throw a scaling chain

Everything is better with a scaling chain

 

[Eseseso]

not sure i get it, throw a scaling chain

Basically, we know that people like Kidd and Law can match and hurt the yonko with their AP.

Kidd matched BM's punk Gibson and fought her off-screen, and even hurt her badly with a Punk Clash, while Law using Takt and Injection shot did a lot of damage to Bigger Mom and Hybrid Kaido, respectively.

THAT SAID, it's made clear in story that there's no way those 2 and people on their level can fight a Yonko evenly in 1v1 and win without cheating, such as how it was obvious Law and Kidd would've lost without using BFR to remove Bigger Mom from the battlefield. They both took a fuckton of hits from her, but she was clearly stronger and tougher than them.

There's a reason Law needed Awakened dura neg just to weaken Bigger Mom (and even THAT only slowed her down for a bit).

I see.

Welp, scaling King via wing slice was never my idea, so a better form of scaling for King with his sword is this:

Marco's Bluebird couldn't break King's suit.

Early King Fight Buso Zoro broke it twice (first the horn which made King go berserk, and then during his clash with Hybrid King he broke a decent chunk which revealed King's dark skin and white hair), and him doing so was treated as an incredible rarity by King's men who said that no one has ever broken it before, implying that his suit is known for its durability. This makes sense considering how much King wants to hide his identity.

Base King with a sword matched Early King Fight Buso Zoro, who even without the above suit stuff scales to the Kaifu and downscales from the Hakai.

So his value is the same, it just really needs a different justification for Kachon's reasoning.

 

[Kachon123]

Could we scale Bridal Grabber to Early King Fight Zoro's durability?

 

[Eseseso]

i dont see any compelling arguement to say that zoan queen ~ base king when theyre comparable without weapons

Mainly portrayal.

And also the above thing about Zoan Queen hurting Sanji who took hits from Base King.

Sanji himself implied they were comparable when he says they're both too tough to handle.

Also this reddit post explains the comparable portrayal:



(The title is sarcastic)

 

[Eseseso]

Could we scale Bridal Bomber to Early King Fight Zoro's durability?

How so?

 

[Kachon123]

Implied that it'd harm Zoro

 

[Eseseso]

Implied that it'd harm Zoro

That makes sense.

I should add it to that Queen CRT.

 

[Sus]

Mainly portrayal.

And also the above thing about Zoan Queen hurting Sanji who took hits from Base King.

Sanji himself implied they were comparable when he says they're both too tough to handle.

Also this reddit post explains the comparable portrayal:



(The title is sarcastic)

oh you got me wrong i dont see a compelling arguement NOT to say z queen ~ b king

Basically, we know that people like Kidd and Law can match and hurt the yonko with their AP.

barely

Kidd matched BM's punk Gibson

?

Punk Clash, while Law using Takt and Injection shot did a lot of damage to Bigger Mom and Hybrid Kaido, respectively.

these are attacks that cant be used to block hakai

man i hate upscaling to downscaling to blah blah
direct feats>

 

[Eseseso]

Tiers - Tiers: New Low Top Tier & "YFM" Power Rankings

So the last time I did a ranking of this group, it wasn't actually that long ago... But a lot has changed since then and pretty quickly too https://www.fanverse.org/threads/updated-yc1-yfm-yvc-power-rankings.1238294/ In true sports like fashion, we're gonna be evaluating these fighters based...

www.fanverse.org

Asides from the Katakuri wank this more or less checks out.

 

[Eseseso]

?

Sorry, meant to say Kidd matched BM with his Punk Gibson

 

[DaReaperMan]

Katakuri vs Moria

Except Moria has Prior knowledge and a week of prep

 

[Eminiteable]

Katakuri vs Moria

Except Moria has Prior knowledge and a week of prep

Moria could win if he steals his shadow and gets him in sunlight I guess.

Just steal it while Katakuri is having his donut break so futur sight isn't an issue.