One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[Eseseso]

@Eseseso Can you give a summary to the current scaling of OP in Wano? That would be helpful

Uhhhhh, all of Wano scaling or just Tobiroppo scaling?

I don't mind doing the former, it'll just take a while to list it (though scaling lists/chains are a specialty of mine).

Also a link to Tempest sandbox too

KingTempest16/Final Sandbox One Piece AP (Wano)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ignore the Drake part and the AP ratings, they're both outdated.

Base Tobiroppo scale to 4.3 gigatons via scaling above Base Hawkins who matched Dressrosa Law's AP.

Zoan Tobiroppo > Gear 3 Post Udon > Post-Katakuri G3 = Awakened Kata = Pre-Kata G4 = 30.295 gigatons

Doesn't seem like it hurt him as much as the Punk Gibson, however.

It was a focused piercing attack, not a smashing attack like Punk Gibson, so it didn't hit his whole body like the Punk Gibson did.

It still drew just as much blood and knocked Apoo out (which Gibson didn't seem to do), even though Apoo was more on-guard and used Buso Haki to defend himself.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Uhhhhh, all of Wano scaling or just Tobiroppo scaling?

I don't mind doing the former, it'll just take a while to list it (though scaling lists/chains are a specialty of mine).

Yeah, the former is fine as well

KingTempest16/Final Sandbox One Piece AP (Wano)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ignore the Drake part and the AP ratings, they're both outdated.

Base Tobiroppo scale to 4.3 gigatons via scaling above Base Hawkins who matched Dressrosa Law's AP.

Zoan Tobiroppo > Gear 3 Post Udon > Post-Katakuri G3 = Awakened Kata = Pre-Kata G4 = 30.295 gigatons

@KobsterHope07 How's that?

 

[Fireld]

It's not easy to find a MU lel
And beside, you want me to pit Six and Drake against a freaking Kamen Riders?

So you've ideas for specific members of the Flying 6, not all of them
Not really. I ain't interested in that verse.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So you've ideas for specific members of the Flying 6, not all of them

Yes, that's what i mean
I'm waiting for Ulti and Black Maria profiles, but it will be better if all of the Tobiroppo gang get their profiles instead two like Ulti/Black Maria

Not really. I ain't interested in that verse.

Good, because that verse is bs as heck

 

[DaMonkeMan]

It was a focused piercing attack, not a smashing attack like Punk Gibson, so it didn't hit his whole body like the Punk Gibson did.

It still drew just as much blood and knocked Apoo out (which Gibson didn't seem to do), even though Apoo was more on-guard and used Buso Haki to defend himself.

It didn't knock him out, he got up like 10 seconds after.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I mean... They are all in sandboxes, just not published

 

[Eseseso]

It didn't knock him out, he got up like 10 seconds after.

And before he used the Boom and got up, he was out like a light (as shown by his white eyes).

And he was panting as it got up and complaining about how much it hurt even with Buso Haki, and the only other time he was panting from taking damage was after Zoro's Shishi Sonson.

When Kidd hit him, he just talked smack before hitting Kidd with a Sound Attack.

 

[KobsterHope07]

@KobsterHope07 How's that?

Ehhhhhhh.. Here's BM for now. Someone can check if it was done right

 

[DaMonkeMan]

And before he used the Boom and got up, he was out like a light (as shown by his white eyes).

And he was panting as it got up and complaining about how much it hurt even with Buso Haki, and the only other time he was panting from taking damage was after Zoro's Shishi Sonson.

When Kidd hit him, he just talked smack before hitting Kidd with a Sound Attack.

Didn't Kaidou have white eyes from some attacks and still be conscious? White eyes isn't always a indicator of someone being knocked out.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Ehhhhhhh.. Here's BM for now. Someone can check if it was done right

So far, so good
Only thing that can be polished for now is the image for Base and Zoan Form BM, need a better images than the current ones

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah, the former is fine as well

Cracks knuckles


Here we go (and this is only for characters who were in Wano, not every single character):


Yonko level people (as in, those who scale to the same value of AP/dura as the Yonko tiers and don't downscale):

• Kaido in all forms
• Big Mom in all forms
• Luffy:
  • Post-Udon: His durability scales in all forms, and his G4 AP scales via damaging Kaido with both normal attacks and Kong Gatling
  • Post-Hao Awakening: All forms
• Zoro:
  • Pre-Mink Medicine: His AP is this level with everything except no-Haki base, and his durability is on this level.
  • Post-Mink Medicine: Same as Pre-Mink
• Marco
• King in all forms
  • IMO his no-sword AP does scale to this level as well, and while Sanji did block a kick, King was not aiming for Sanji and wasn't expecting him to block the kick. Sanji could possibly downscale, but they were not really equal, especially since right after this Base King throttled Sanji with one arm.
• Yamato in all keys
• Izou (probably)
  • Izou should scale to the other WB commanders like Ace, not the Scabbards
• Post-Exoskeleton Sanji's Ifrit Jambe and Post-Exoskeleton Buso Haki durability (which scales to Ifrit Jambe)
  • IIRC this is the only thing Sanji has on this level (which I think Kingtempest said in his Wano AP thread), which makes sense since it is what took down Queen, and seemed to do more than either Big Mom's enraged hits (which Queen recovered from rather quickly), or Marco's attacks (which even base Queen took with just an ugly headache and some other wounds while still being conscious)
  • His Onigashima Raid's Raid Suit is this durable as well via being unharmed by Zoan King's attack
• Apoo's DF
• Zoan X Drake's durability only, via taking hits from Apoo's DF off-screen
  • His AP doesn't scale to this level
• Hyogoro's durability for the same reason as Zoan X Drake
• Greenbull
• Guernica
• Kazenbo
• Kid
• Law
• Killer's durability only
• Momonosuke's Dragon Form

Scabbard level+ (As in, downscaling from Yonko tiers but being clearly above normal Scabbards):

• Queen in all forms
  • No, Zoan/Hybrid Jack isn't on this level, as it is heavily implied that Base Queen scales above even Zoan/Hybrid Jack based on portrayal, not to mention that while Zoan Jack is above a Base Scabbard, Base Scabbards like Neko and Inu still held their own against him, and the 2 Sulongs (who base Kaido casually overpowered) wrecked Jack's shit and nearly killed him
• Zoan X Drake's AP
  • Downscales from Guernica's durability and AP via fighting him offscreen and putting up a good fight (as stated by Guernica himself, who was bleeding a bit from his mask), although Guernica was still clearly much stronger, hence the downscaling.
• Base Pre-Mink Medicine and Base Post-Mink Medicine Zoro
• Apoo's normal AP outside of his DF, as well as his durability
• Maha
• Hyogoro (who fought Apoo off-screen and make Zoan X-Drake wary of his power)
• Everything of Onigashima Raid Sanji, as well as everything of Post-Exoskeleton Sanji besides his Ifrit Jambe and Buso durability (FRA)
• Sulong Neko and Sulong Inu
• Killer's AP
• Base X Drake (maybe, since he did fight Apoo in his base off-screen)
• Hawkin's Devil Fruit
• Kin'emon, Sulong Inu, Denjiro, and Ashura each using Paradise Waterfall (the attack that opened Kaido's scar).

Scabbard level:

• All 9 Scabbards
• Kanjuro's normal AP
• Base and Zoan/Hybrid Jack
• Base X Drake (maybe)
• MP Chopper
  • Yes, he made Zoan Queen bleed, wrestled with him, and took some hits, but Queen had a clear advantage and was messing around with him

Zoan Tobiroppo level (Scale above 30.295 gigatons):

• Zoan Tobiroppo
• Giganto Fleur and Demonio Fleur Robin
• General Franky
• G3 Luffy Post-Udon
• Jinbe with Buso or when angry
• Early Wano Sanji

Perospero level (7.57 gigatons via scaling to Oven who hurt base Katakuri):

• Perospero
• Sulong Wanda
• Sulong Carrot

Base Tobiroppo level (4.3 gigatons):

• Base Tobiroppo
• Base Post-Udon Luffy
• Base Hawkins
• Base Chopper
• Base Robin
• Nami
• Usopp
• Base Franky

Base Carrot level (1.89 gigatons):

• Base Carrot
• Base Wanda

 

[Eseseso]

Didn't Kaidou have white eyes from some attacks and still be conscious? White eyes isn't always a indicator of someone being knocked out.

True, but it still shows immense pain, and the difference is that Kaidou wasn't out like a light on the floor for a few seconds, long enough for Drake and Guernica to have a short dialogue

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Cracks knuckles


Here we go (and this is only for characters who were in Wano, not every single character):


Yonko level people (as in, those who scale to the same value of AP/dura as the Yonko tiers and don't downscale):

• Kaido in all forms
• Big Mom in all forms
• Luffy:
  • Post-Udon: His durability scales in all forms, and his G4 AP scales via damaging Kaido with both normal attacks and Kong Gatling
  • Post-Hao Awakening: All forms
• Zoro:
  • Pre-Mink Medicine: His AP is this level with everything except no-Haki base, and his durability is on this level.
  • Post-Mink Medicine: Same as Pre-Mink
• Marco
• King in all forms
  • IMO his no-sword AP does scale to this level as well, and while Sanji did block a kick, King was not aiming for Sanji and wasn't expecting him to block the kick. Sanji could possibly downscale, but they were not really equal, especially since right after this Base King throttled Sanji with one arm.
• Yamato in all keys
• Izou (probably)
  • Izou should scale to the other WB commanders like Ace, not the Scabbards
• Post-Exoskeleton Sanji's Ifrit Jambe and Post-Exoskeleton Buso Haki durability (which scales to Ifrit Jambe)
  • IIRC this is the only thing Sanji has on this level (which I think Kingtempest said in his Wano AP thread), which makes sense since it is what took down Queen, and seemed to do more than either Big Mom's enraged hits (which Queen recovered from rather quickly), or Marco's attacks (which even base Queen took with just an ugly headache and some other wounds while still being conscious)
  • His Onigashima Raid's Raid Suit is this durable as well via being unharmed by Zoan King's attack
• Apoo's DF
• Zoan X Drake's durability only, via taking hits from Apoo's DF off-screen
  • His AP doesn't scale to this level
• Hyogoro's durability for the same reason as Zoan X Drake
• Greenbull
• Guernica
• Kazenbo
• Kid
• Law
• Killer's durability only
• Momonosuke's Dragon Form

Scabbard level+ (As in, downscaling from Yonko tiers but being clearly above normal Scabbards):

• Queen in all forms
  • No, Zoan/Hybrid Jack isn't on this level, as it is heavily implied that Base Queen scales above even Zoan/Hybrid Jack based on portrayal, not to mention that while Zoan Jack is above a Base Scabbard, Base Scabbards like Neko and Inu still held their own against him, and the 2 Sulongs (who base Kaido casually overpowered) wrecked Jack's shit and nearly killed him
• Zoan X Drake's AP
  • Downscales from Guernica's durability and AP via fighting him offscreen and putting up a good fight (as stated by Guernica himself, who was bleeding a bit from his mask), although Guernica was still clearly much stronger, hence the downscaling.
• Base Pre-Mink Medicine and Base Post-Mink Medicine Zoro
• Apoo's normal AP outside of his DF, as well as his durability
• Maha
• Hyogoro (who fought Apoo off-screen and make Zoan X-Drake wary of his power)
• Everything of Onigashima Raid Sanji, as well as everything of Post-Exoskeleton Sanji besides his Ifrit Jambe and Buso durability (FRA)
• Sulong Neko and Sulong Inu
• Killer's AP
• Base X Drake (maybe, since he did fight Apoo in his base off-screen)
• Hawkin's Devil Fruit

Scabbard level:

• All 9 Scabbards
• Kanjuro's normal AP
• Base and Zoan/Hybrid Jack
• Base X Drake (maybe)
• MP Chopper
  • Yes, he made Zoan Queen bleed, wrestled with him, and took some hits, but Queen had a clear advantage and was messing around with him

Zoan Tobiroppo level (Scale above 30.295 gigatons):

• Zoan Tobiroppo
• Giganto Fleur and Demonio Fleur Robin
• General Franky
• G3 Luffy Post-Udon
• Jinbe with Buso or when angry
• Early Wano Sanji

Perospero level (7.57 gigatons via scaling to Oven who hurt base Katakuri):

• Perospero
• Sulong Wanda
• Sulong Carrot

Base Tobiroppo level (4.3 gigatons):

• Base Tobiroppo
• Base Post-Udon Luffy
• Base Hawkins
• Base Chopper
• Base Robin
• Nami
• Usopp
• Base Franky

Base Carrot level (1.89 gigatons):

• Base Carrot
• Base Wanda

@KobsterHope07 At least with this, you can catch up with the OP lel

 

[XDragnoir]

I'm referencing the Oden feat though.... Oden's the one who cut that guy clean in half correct?

Yeah but his feat isn't biological manipulation at all.

Literally stated to be nothing more than a clean cut.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yeah but his feat isn't biological manipulation at all.

Literally stated to be nothing more than a clean cut.

....

 

[Eseseso]

It could do with some references

Just added them!

 

[Fireld]

Scabbard level+ (As in, downscaling from Yonko tiers but being clearly above normal Scabbards):

• Killer's AP

Scabbard level:

• All 9 Scabbards

Sure Killer deflected Kaifus that chopped Kiku's blade & arm, but didn't Kinemon, Inu & Kawamatsu draw blood from Dragon Kaido individually while Killer couldn't even pierce those damn scales in the slightest without his phasing trick. At bare minimun, I would rate those 3 higher than you currently do.

Edit: Nevermind Inu my bad, you already scale Sulongs higher

 

[Eseseso]

Sure Killer deflected Kaifus that chopped Kiku's blade & arm, but didn't Kinemon, Inu & Kawamatsu draw blood from Dragon Kaido individually while Killer couldn't even pierce those damn scales in the slightest without his phasing trick. At bare minimun, I would rate those 3 higher than you currently do.

1. Killer blatantly has a feat putting him well above a base Scabbard, especially since all the Scabbards decided to dodge all the Kaifu (though tbf, so did Law and G4 Post-Udon Luffy).

2. Kaido wasn't serious against the Scabbards like he was against Killer and Zoro, and Killer didn't say he couldn't pierce the scales, just that they were really hard to damage. Sulong Neko and Inu, who stomped a Scabbard level Jack, were easily overpowered by Base Kaido.

3. He dented Base Kaido's neck without dura neg, and Kaido complemented his attack (and it made his body throb in pain).

 

[Eminiteable]

Sure Killer deflected Kaifus that chopped Kiku's blade & arm, but didn't Kinemon, Inu & Kawamatsu draw blood from Dragon Kaido individually while Killer couldn't even pierce those damn scales in the slightest without his phasing trick. At bare minimun, I would rate those 3 higher than you currently do.

Kawa & Kin cut inside his mouth which is shown to be easier to draw blood from in OP (Luffy vs Doffy or Kat being examples).

Better example would probably be Sulong Inu, Denjiro, the fat pink one and Kin'emon cutting open the scar.

 

[Eseseso]

Kawa & Kin cut inside his mouth which is shown to be easier to draw blood from in OP (Luffy vs Doffy or Kat being examples).

True.

Better example would probably be Sulong Inu, Denjiro, Ashura Doji, and Kin'emon cutting open the scar.

This, but they both used 2 swords (which is above their base, as they usually only use one sword), used Buso Haki, and attacked together in a combined attack at Kaido's weak spot (his scar).

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I wonder if people will fall for this

 

[XDragnoir]

and Killer didn't say he couldn't pierce the scales, just that they were really hard to damage

Doesn't matter? We see him being unable to cut them and resorting to internal attacks the moment after.

 

[Eseseso]

On another note, if 1072 spoilers don't come out soon, I'm going to lose my mind.

There's like 3 different people on Worstgen each giving different spoilers from the chapter.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I wonder if people will fall for this

Until they actually give the source.... Its fake af

Some said from a weekly Shonen jump... I checked.... Nothing there

 

[DaMonkeMan]

On another note, if 1072 spoilers don't come out soon, I'm going to lose my mind.

There's like 3 different people on Worstgen each giving different spoilers from the chapter.

Right now the Worstgen users are just trolling.
Some of them are also arguing on this thread about the Top 5 Strongest Characters right now.
Basically a poll that started as the Top 50 and is now the Top 5 with Akainu, Blackbeard, Dragon, Shanks and Mihawk in it. Mihawk is in 1st place, logically.

 

[Eminiteable]

This, but they both used 2 swords (which is above their base, as they usually only use one sword), used Buso Haki, and attacked together in a combined attack at Kaido's weak spot (his scar).

They're still above Killer. Their combo attack was them each individually targeting a part of the scar, not really a combination of their strength to allow them to cut Kaidou in general.

 

[Eseseso]

They're still above Killer. Their combo attack was them each individually targeting a part of the scar, not really a combination of their strength to allow them to cut Kaidou in general.

Kaido was unimpressed by the Scabbards, yet complemented Killer.

Killer also pushed back Napoleon.

And the scar was still a weak spot.

And maybe a 2-sword + Buso Scabbard is on Killer's level, but not a normal scabbard.

But I'll add the 4 Scabbards who did Togen Totska to the Scabbard+ level list.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

But I'll add the 4 Scabbards who did Togen Totska to the Scabbard+ level list.

Which of them did that

 

[Eseseso]

Which of them did that

Sulong Inu, Ashura Doji, Kin'emon, and Denjiro

 

[Fireld]

Kawa & Kin cut inside his mouth which is shown to be easier to draw blood from in OP (Luffy vs Doffy or Kat being examples).

Better example would probably be Sulong Inu, Denjiro, the fat pink one and Kin'emon cutting open the scar.

Noted

2. Kaido wasn't serious against the Scabbards like he was against Killer and Zoro, and Killer didn't say he couldn't pierce the scales, just that they were really hard to damage. Sulong Neko and Inu, who stomped a Scabbard level Jack, were easily overpowered by Base Kaido.

Kaido not being serious or whatever doesn't just suddenly drop his durability. Also what @XDragnoir said: Killer on-panel attemp failed while Inu succeeded.
You checked my edit on the previous message?

3. He dented Base Kaido's neck without dura neg, and Kaido complemented his attack (and it made his body throb in pain).

I get why the Kaifu is more impressive, but how is this better than Scabbards? Their blades went deeper on base Kaido than Killer's did in this instance & he was shocked they could pierce/hurt him.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Kawa & Kin cut inside his mouth which is shown to be easier to draw blood from in OP (Luffy vs Doffy or Kat being examples).

Better example would probably be Sulong Inu, Denjiro, the fat pink one and Kin'emon cutting open the scar.

"The Fat Pink One" has to be the best nickname for a One Piece character I've heard in a while.
Reminds me of this Spongebob clip

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The fat pink one is the samurai who fought jack right? Until kaido dragon arrived for the first time? Or?

 

[Eseseso]

The fat pink one is the samurai who fought jack right? Until kaido dragon arrived for the first time? Or?

Am I the only one here who remembers that his name is Ashura Doji?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Am I the only one here who remembers that his name is Ashura Doji?

... I knew it was something similar to doji... Donjiro but it's been a year + more since I watched one piece so... Yee that's also why

But which fat pink one? The non human one?

 

[Deceived3596]

Yeah but his feat isn't biological manipulation at all.

Literally stated to be nothing more than a clean cut.

 

[SnookB]

Yeah but his feat isn't biological manipulation at all.

Literally stated to be nothing more than a clean cut.

.... the cut is so clean it allows a biological organism to perform a feat it shouldn't be physically capable of
That's a form of hax, not just a "clean cut". Shit like that involves cells reconnecting like they were never severed and whatnot, so it's biological manipulation via clean slices.
There's a clean cut
then there's a clean cut that literally changes how your body functions

 

[XDragnoir]

Shit like that involves cells reconnecting like they were never severed and whatnot, so it's biological manipulation via clean slices.

Wtf? Oda never said anything about the cells not being damaged, literally 0 statements saying "his cells weren't severed".

 

[SnookB]

Wtf? Oda never said anything about the cells not being damaged, literally 0 statements saying "his cells weren't severed".

I might be wrong, but for something (especially LIVING) to be put back together and actually stick after being sliced, you need to cut it on an atomic level. (or something around that)

That entire feat isn't attributed to the boar's regeneration, it's Oden's cut being so clean that the boar's body didn't know it was sliced.


It's either that or Oden's slashes have healing properties lmao

 

[XDragnoir]

No, it's called Oda making shit on the spot...

Also, can you give me the source for that atomic level cut you just said? Cause you literally went from cell cut to atomic cut just completely out of nowhere.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Sad human