One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[MonkeyOfLife]

Holy... Humans are the real problem not the scaling

I mean... The problem is everything before the scaling is done

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Holy... Humans are the real problem not the scaling

I mean... The problem is everything before the scaling is done

Not right now Monkey, you can babble about random stuff later bro

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

literally that moment at Marineford where Kizaru got held at gunpoint by Benn Beckman.

There are statements saying benn > if I remember correctly...

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Not right now Monkey, you can babble about random stuff later bro

Ok... Go have fun debating

 

[DaMonkeMan]

There are statements saying benn > if I remember correctly...

I haven't seen those, mainly because extreme Admiral wankers are more common for some reason.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I haven't seen those, mainly because extreme Admiral wankers are more common for some reason.

TRUE!!!! HOLY SHIT!!! I need to find them to explain to them why being like that is bad

 

[DaMonkeMan]

well since you're here do you wanna tell me if you think marco can beat sanji or vice versa?

 

[Kachon123]

His fights with the Admirals

That isn't a skill feat mate. A skill feat is being able to change the entire bone structure of someone's face with only kicks, or surpassing a master of Okama Kenpo.

All these pictures you're giving me are ones of him still being injured badly by these attacks

And getting right back up. That's what endurance is- being able to fight and move around through damage.

If the attack is strong enough he's likely to still die, that's what it seems like right now.

What does strength have to do with anything??? They're dura neg shockwaves that both destroy the insides.

A human could be hit with a 8-B dura neg attack to the head and a 5-B dura neg attack to the head. The outcome is the same. Sanji was able to endure the pain of having dura neg applied directly to his brain, meaning that wether the dura neg attack in question is 1 trillion tons or 100 tons, he'd be able to endure it.

you can't counter DF effects if your level of Haki is the same as your opponents, it has to be higher than their's.

Based on? Doffy, who has relative haki to Law, could negate Amputate (Law's df ability).

Sanji's durability is countered by Marco's durability neg, simple.

Which is countered by Sanji's regen

Endurance and regen won't matter if Marco keeps hitting him hard in specific spots,

Yes it would. The whole point of regen is that it heals from attacks.

he'd still get knocked out/killed eventually

Which won't happen due to Sanji's speed.

The speed difference isn't huge

It literally is. Queen was able to see Marco. Queen was not able to see Raid Diable Jambe Sanji (pre exo). Base Post Exo Sanji >> Diable Pre Exo, who was already FTE to Queen who could see Marco. Diable >> Base Speed. Ifrit >> Diable Speed.

Sanji is like 2 FTE levels above Marco's speed when he's going all out.

Marco can clash with Admirals

Okay?

if Sanji disappears Marco uses his observation to spot and tag him.

Something Doffy, Page 1, Queen, and King can't do. Okay.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

well since you're here do you wanna tell me if you think marco can beat sanji or vice versa?

Hmmmm.... This a hard one but... If they are the same currently and sanji doesn't get any stronger I would probably say Marco wins insanely hard diff

 

[WrongIdea21]

 

[DaMonkeMan]

That isn't a skill feat mate. A skill feat is being able to change the entire bone structure of someone's face with only kicks, or surpassing a master of Okama Kenpo.

And getting right back up. That's what endurance is- being able to fight and move around through damage.



Based on? Doffy, who has relative haki to Law, could negate Amputate (Law's df ability).

Which is countered by Sanji's regen

Yes it would. The whole point of regen is that it heals from attacks.

Which won't happen due to Sanji's speed.

It literally is. Queen was able to see Marco. Queen was not able to see Raid Diable Jambe Sanji (pre exo). Base Post Exo Sanji >> Diable Pre Exo, who was already FTE to Queen who could see Marco. Diable >> Base Speed. Ifrit >> Diable Speed.

Sanji is like 2 FTE levels above Marco's speed when he's going all out.

Okay?

Something Doffy, Page 1, Queen, and King can't do. Okay.

Yeah yeah, but can he get past Marco's defenses? That's the most important part. Marco can block magma punches from Akainu, a Bolo Breath from Kaidou, giant lasers from Kizaru, etc. I don't see how Sanji could bypass that. Oh and BTW Doflamingo was using strings in that counter attack, not just Haki, lol.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

And getting right back up. That's what endurance is- being able to fight and move around through damage.
Which is countered by Sanji's regen
Yes it would. The whole point of regen is that it heals from attacks.

I'm saying if Marco keeps hitting him and doesn't let him get up ( like he did against King ). Similar to Sanji hitting Queen with a barrage of attacks before he could react.

 

[Kachon123]

Oh and BTW Doflamingo was using strings in that counter attack, not just Haki, lol

Amputate would've cut the strings if he did not use haki.

but can he get past Marco's defenses

By blitzing him, yes.

 

[Kachon123]

I'm saying if Marco keeps hitting him and doesn't let him get up

The difference is that Sanji is vastly superior to Marco in speed so that is not happening. I'm not even sure if you're overhyping Marco's speed, downplaying Sanji's, or both.

Sanji is FASTER THAN MARCO CAN SEE. In no universe can Marco barrage Sanji to the point of him not being able to get up without Sanji being able to dodge, counter, or attack before Marco's attack comes out.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Sanji just needs better haki and just 1 more little power up and I can see him winning

 

[Kachon123]

Sanji just needs better haki

He has enough haki to negate Marco's regeneration and enough of the other stats to outbox Marco.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Sanji just needs better haki and just 1 more little power up and I can see him winning

If he used something other than fire he'd have a better chance
This was a bad match up because Sanji only has a slight advantage in speed and in durability but at the cost of his flames being negged by Marco's flames, his regen being countered by Marco spamming dura neg attacks on him in quick succession, etc.

 

[Kachon123]

only has a slight advantage in speed

??

 

[DaMonkeMan]

The difference is that Sanji is vastly superior to Marco in speed so that is not happening. I'm not even sure if you're overhyping Marco's speed, downplaying Sanji's, or both.

Sanji is FASTER THAN MARCO CAN SEE. In no universe can Marco barrage Sanji to the point of him not being able to get up without Sanji being able to dodge, counter, or attack before Marco's attack comes out.

I've already addressed the speed problem and why it's not as big a problem as you're making it out to be.
Also wtf do you mean " Sanji is faster than Marco can see "? Just because Queen can't see Sanji moving doesn't mean Marco can't. Again, he literally came out of no where and flew up to Kizaru's huge laser ball and countered it in like 2 seconds. Marco is goated.

 

[Kachon123]

Marco spamming dura neg attacks on him in quick succession,

Last time someone spammed dura neg attacks in quick succession to Sanji:

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Last time someone spammed dura neg attacks in quick succession to Sanji:

Marco doesn't have huge flashes of light coming out of his body when he does his attacks though, so there isn't much of a visual cue he'll do it.

 

[Kachon123]

I've already addressed the speed problem and why it's not as big a problem as you're making it out to be.

Quote it because I do not remember you ever bringing it up.

Just because Queen can't see Sanji moving doesn't mean Marco can't

Queen reactions are as fast as Marco's speed.

Sanji prior to his upgrade was already faster than Queen's reactions via Diable Jambe.

Sanji is currently 4 scaling slots above that. Yes, Sanji's top speed is several blitzes above Marco's.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Quote it because I do not remember you ever bringing it up.

Queen reactions are as fast as Marco's speed.

Sanji prior to his upgrade was already faster than Queen's reactions via Diable Jambe.

Sanji is currently 4 scaling slots above that. Yes, Sanji's top speed is several blitzes above Marco's.

Marco was fast enough to intercept beams from Kizaru in a short amount of time, and Kizaru's attack was nearly at it's destination too.

Doesn't have higher skill, that's just headcanon.
Better usage of Kenbun is valid.
Higher durability, valid.
regen, valid
endurance... sure?
but some of these don't matter because against Marco has dura neg attacks plus he can just pick apart Sanji and spam shockwaves on his weak spots ( I said this before, he can just spam them on his head ).

There isn't much Sanji can do though. He's a close range fighter, he's gonna have to get in close to land hits, but that's dangerous since Marco can counter his flames and strike back. Marco also has the advantage of being far more mobile in air.

It's pretty obvious Akainu's magma is hotter than his fire. Akainu can vaporize metal with his ambient heat and easily put holes in people who can withstand Ace's flames and still move after. For example, Jinbe fought Ace for 5 days, but he couldn't stay conscious for much longer after Akainu punched a hole in him. Akainu always melts people who get touched by his magma, but Sanji couldn't do that to Queen.

 

[ByAsura]

You telling me that this man planning on grooming an 8 year old and watching her body develop to manipulate her in his own twisted ways is relatively tame to the actions of other pirates?

Considering that half the pirates in the series are r*pists or murderers (even both), yes.

Again, that's not to downplay Sanji's plans, but if Whitebeard is portrayed as one of the more moral pirates, that should say a lot about how amoral most pirates are.

Yeeeaaahh, there's no way to put a positive spin on what Sanji said.

It's basically the same as Mineta from MHA saying to Eri, a 6-year old, "I can't wait to see what you look like in 10 years".

Literally no difference.

My guy, nobody did that. I was even the one who brought up the conversation about Sanji being a monster.

The discussion wasn't about how bad Sanji was, it was about how most pirates are even worse than that.

 

[Kachon123]

@TheMonkeMan Why do you bring up Kizaru? Sanji is much faster than him as of right now as well. That is not a feat that supports your argument at all.

Give me a scaling chain and why Marco is similar in speed and how because of that chain you made, Marco would not get blitzed.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

@TheMonkeMan Why do you bring up Kizaru? Sanji is much faster than him as of right now as well.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Considering that half the pirates in the series are r*pists or murderers (even both), yes.

Again, that's not to downplay Sanji's plans, but if Whitebeard is portrayed as one of the more moral pirates, that should say a lot about how degenerate most pirates are.

Well, Whitebeard is kind of neutral. He doesn't seem to actually do any heinous stuff but he'll still kill other pirates and take treasure and what not. Same for Roger.

Give me a scaling chain and why Marco is similar in speed and how because of that chain you made, Marco would not get blitzed.

He matched 1 Homie Big Mom who's more powerful than the ordinary Big Mom that trashed Queen and completely disregarded his reactions, meanwhile Sanji had to catch Queen off guard a lot and rely on the fact that despite his intelligence, Queen is a bumbling fool with the attention span of a fly with ADHD.

 

[Eseseso]

Again, that's not to downplay Sanji's plans, but if Whitebeard is portrayed as one of the more moral pirates, that should say a lot about how degenerate most pirates are.

What bad things did Whitebeard do?

 

[ByAsura]

Let's see here; murder (potentially mass-murder), plundering and kidnapping. Basically, what pirates usually do.

That is unless I'm confusing his crimes for someone else's.

 

[Kachon123]

He matched 1 Homie Big Mom who's more powerful than the ordinary Big Mom that trashed Queen and completely disregarded his reactions, meanwhile Sanji had to catch Queen off guard a lot and rely on the fact that despite his intelligence, Queen is a bumbling fool with the attention span of a fly with ADHD.

I'm asking for speed, not AP. AP has nothing to do with being blitzed. If you can't answer properly, I'll consider that a concession to your argument that Sanji can't easily outspeed and blitz Marco once he uses his top speed.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I'm asking for speed, not AP. AP has nothing to do with being blitzed. If you can't answer properly, I'll consider that a concession to your argument that Sanji can't easily outspeed and blitz Marco once he uses his top speed.

I'm saying Big Mom blitzed and clapped Queen while Marco was still able to react to her and counter her.

 

[Eseseso]

Let's see here; murder (potentially mass-murder), plundering and kidnapping. Basically, what pirates usually do.

That is unless I'm confusing his crimes for someone else's.

proof?

 

[ByAsura]

My guy, have you read One Piece, like Whitebeard kidnapping Ace for instance?

 

[KingTempest]

Kid crucified a bunch of people pre timeskip because they talked shit to him

He's not wrong

 

[KingTempest]

like Whitebeard kidnapping Ace for instance?

...nah this is different, read the novel

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Didn't Big Mom threaten to behead Zeff and put him in a chest as a "surprise" for Sanji if he turned her down?

 

[ByAsura]

I did read the novel and the manga of that Ace story. I don't remember anything about it being that different, but I'll go through it again.

 

[Kachon123]

I'm saying Big Mom blitzed and clapped Queen while Marco was still able to react to her and counter her.

Big Mom never blitzed Queen. He was able tor react to her the same way he did to Marco. It's consistent scaling.

 

[KingTempest]

I did read the novel and the manga. I don't remember anything about it being that different, but I'll go through it again.

Ace didn't get kidnapped, his crew conceded and Wb took them in

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Big Mom never blitzed Queen. He was able tor react to her the same way he did to Marco. It's consistent scaling.

No he wasn't. He didn't do anything in that panel. He was helpless.