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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

It'd be funny if Apoo challenged Kizaru again, only to lose since he has no counter for Kizaru's logia (since his Haki has only been shown being used for defense so I doubt he can apply it to his sound attacks).

Also, if Apoo, Hawkins, Killer, and Kid (w/ Awakening, let's assume) fought Shanks in an alternate universe where Apoo was genuine about an alliance, would Shanks low-diff the 4 of them? Mid-Diff?

For reference:

Apoo: Scabbard level durability AP w/o Devil Fruit, Yonko level durability w/ DF

Kid: Yonko level all-around, you guys all know how he scales.

Killer: Scabbard lvl AP, Yonko-level durability

Hawkins: His Straw Man card and Straw Man transformation are scabbard level (as the former somewhat matched Base Zoro while the latter matched Killer)
 
Eseseso said:
It'd be funny if Apoo challenged Kizaru again, only to lose since he has no counter for Kizaru's logia (since his Haki has only been shown being used for defense so I doubt he can apply it to his sound attacks).

Also, if Apoo, Hawkins, Killer, and Kid (w/ Awakening, let's assume) fought Shanks in an alternate universe where Apoo was genuine about an alliance, would Shanks low-diff the 4 of them? Mid-Diff?

For reference:

Apoo: Scabbard level durability AP w/o Devil Fruit, Yonko level durability w/ DF

Kid: Yonko level all-around, you guys all know how he scales.

Killer: Scabbard lvl AP, Yonko-level durability

Hawkins: His Straw Man card and Straw Man transformation are scabbard level (as the former somewhat matched Base Zoro while the latter matched Killer)
Click to expand...
Uh, no. LOL. It might not be too easy but he'd win. Even without his team. The whole " Haki counters DF effects " thing means Shanks' outstanding Haki can allow him to just stop 3 of them for using basically 99% of their arsenal. Then it's just randoms with Haki and Killer vs Shanks and it's obvious who wins that.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Uh, no. LOL. It might not be too easy but he'd win. Even without his team. The whole " Haki counters DF effects " thing means Shanks' outstanding Haki can allow him to just stop 3 of them for using basically 99% of their arsenal. Then it's just randoms with Haki and Killer vs Shanks and it's obvious who wins that.
Click to expand...
So what I asked was: would Shanks Low diff or mid diff?
 
Eseseso said:
Really?

Thanks for the info, I just assumed since I never saw the color version and in black-and-white the blood near his tonfa looked like a part of it.

It actually is useful, since now I can remove a lot of unneeded wording from part of Wano Zoro's AP justification

Doesn't change that Serious Buso Zoro using Shishi Sonson temporarily one-shot an on-guard Apoo when a pissed Eustass Kid's Punk Gibson didn't do that much damage at all to an off-guard Apoo with his Punk Gibson.

And this is a valid comparison:

Enraged Eustass Kid: Uses Punk Gibson while enraged against a completely off-guard Apoo. Breaks one of Apoo's glasses and makes him bleed from the mouth a bit, but other than that Apoo is completely fine, and after talking some smack to Kidd, he has no trouble using his sound attacks to unleash hell before resuming the fight with no shown weakening from Kid's attack.

Serious Buso Zoro in a Tranquil Fury: Uses a Goken attack (which is Buso Haki) on an Apoo who is very much on his guard, which not only draws a sizable amount of blood from him (in the manga, at least) but also knocks him out for a bit. Also, when Apoo gets back up, he's wheezing somewhat due to the damage Zoro inflicted.
Click to expand...
This is one of the reasons why I laugh when I see people on say Zoro isn't even in the same tier as Kid
 
RoronoaxRobin said:
This is one of the reasons why I laugh when I see people on say Zoro isn't even in the same tier as Kid
Click to expand...
unknown.png
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Didn't he clap one of the Sweet Commanders though? The only character in One Piece who's allergic to an actually fair victory is Aramaki
Click to expand...
Hey, tbf Aramaki's only appeared once, and before Yamato and Momo intervened, he was easily overpowering all of the Scabbards.


TheMonkeMan said:
Not like his Multi-Continental key matters at all, though, because he's still gonna job to most of the people in the verse besides Smoker ( who is the 1st biggest jobber, Jack is in 2nd thanks to him ).
Click to expand...
For real.

I mean, I recently made a vs thread between Jack and Drake, and while their bases are equal in basically all stats, Drake's Zoan and Hybrid forms would kind of dominate Jack's.

His AP in Zoan has multiple Scabbard level and above feats (Matched Apoo, who as mentioned matched a semi-serious Buso Zoro who was far more serious than when he deflected a Kaifu [which could cut off Kiku's arm], drew blood twice from Guernica [aka Blue Scarf] who has 2-3 feats of Yonko-level durability [and was complimented by Guernica], and injuring Apoo with his Zoan bite [albeit Apoo was injured from Zoro's Shishi Sonson]).

Jack's Zoan form got stomped by 2 Sulong Scabbards who could only do minor damage to casual Dragon Kaido and were manhandled by serious Base Kaido. Not nearly as impressive as Drake doing actually notable damage to someone with Yonko-level durability.

Meanwhile, Zoan Drake's durability is yonko-level due to him tanking Apoo's sound attacks (which are Yonko level due to doing more damage to Post-Udon Base Luffy than Big Mom did) during their offscreen fight (which is heavily supported by Drake later having wounds and bruises on his normal face that he didn't have before fighting Apoo). Sulong Inu and Neko using just a few hits left Zoan Jack near death's door.

Also, look at Jack's Zoan form and then look at Drake's. Drake's Zoan form lets him use that giant jaw of his, while his Hybrid lets him keep his Zoan strength while not being a big target and letting him use his swords so he can get the most out of his impressive power.

Jack's Full Zoan form, while scary at first, does not let him use his skills and power properly at all (since he loses the ability to use his swords in return for some useless tusks, not to mention he's always shown in the anime as being big and cumbersome while moving around in that form), and even though his Hybrid form lets him use his swords, it's also pretty cumbersome to move around and fight in. Not to mention, his Zoan and Hybrid forms are ******* huge targets. No human-sized form like Drake's Hybrid, it's either "massive mammoth" or "still massive half-mammoth". No wonder some fodder Zoan got a few good hits in on him during Roof Piece.

In short, Drake (and Apoo) would've both been way better All Stars than Jack the Joke, and Queen wasn't lying when he called him "Jack the Dragdown".

TheMonkeMan said:
unknown.png
Click to expand...
Dude couldn't even hurt Kaido at all (the closest he got was that Punk Vise that Kaido complemented).

Yet somehow matches Big Mom with 3-Homies (who's equal to Hybrid Kaido like 5 minutes later) in his base even before Awakening.
 
Eseseso said:
Hey, tbf Aramaki's only appeared once, and before Yamato and Momo intervened, he was easily overpowering all of the Scabbards.



For real.

I mean, I recently made a vs thread between Jack and Drake, and while their bases are equal in basically all stats, Drake's Zoan and Hybrid forms would kind of dominate Jack's.

His AP in Zoan has multiple Scabbard level and above feats (Matched Apoo, who as mentioned matched a semi-serious Buso Zoro who was far more serious than when he deflected a Kaifu [which could cut off Kiku's arm], drew blood twice from Guernica [aka Blue Scarf] who has 2-3 feats of Yonko-level durability [and was complimented by Guernica], and injuring Apoo with his Zoan bite [albeit Apoo was injured from Zoro's Shishi Sonson]).

Jack's Zoan form got stomped by 2 Sulong Scabbards who could only do minor damage to casual Dragon Kaido and were manhandled by serious Base Kaido. Not nearly as impressive as Drake doing actually notable damage to someone with Yonko-level durability.

Meanwhile, Zoan Drake's durability is yonko-level due to him tanking Apoo's sound attacks (which are Yonko level due to doing more damage to Post-Udon Base Luffy than Big Mom did) during their offscreen fight (which is heavily supported by Drake later having wounds and bruises on his normal face that he didn't have before fighting Apoo). Sulong Inu and Neko using just a few hits left Zoan Jack near death's door.

Also, look at Jack's Zoan form and then look at Drake's. Drake's Zoan form lets him use that giant jaw of his, while his Hybrid lets him keep his Zoan strength while not being a big target and letting him use his swords so he can get the most out of his impressive power.

Jack's Full Zoan form, while scary at first, does not let him use his skills and power properly at all (since he loses the ability to use his swords in return for some useless tusks, not to mention he's always shown in the anime as being big and cumbersome while moving around in that form), and even though his Hybrid form lets him use his swords, it's also pretty cumbersome to move around and fight in. Not to mention, his Zoan and Hybrid forms are ******* huge targets. No human-sized form like Drake's Hybrid, it's either "massive mammoth" or "still massive half-mammoth". No wonder some fodder Zoan got a few good hits in on him during Roof Piece.

In short, Drake (and Apoo) would've both been way better All Stars than Jack the Joke, and Queen wasn't lying when he called him "Jack the Dragdown".


Dude couldn't even hurt Kaido at all (the closest he got was that Punk Vise that Kaido complemented).

Yet somehow matches Big Mom with 3-Homies (who's equal to Hybrid Kaido like 5 minutes later) in his base even before Awakening.
Click to expand...
This scaling is why I dropped this dumbass verse
 
Eseseso said:
Hey, tbf Aramaki's only appeared once, and before Yamato and Momo intervened, he was easily overpowering all of the Scabbards.



For real.

I mean, I recently made a vs thread between Jack and Drake, and while their bases are equal in basically all stats, Drake's Zoan and Hybrid forms would kind of dominate Jack's.

His AP in Zoan has multiple Scabbard level and above feats (Matched Apoo, who as mentioned matched a semi-serious Buso Zoro who was far more serious than when he deflected a Kaifu [which could cut off Kiku's arm], drew blood twice from Guernica [aka Blue Scarf] who has 2-3 feats of Yonko-level durability [and was complimented by Guernica], and injuring Apoo with his Zoan bite [albeit Apoo was injured from Zoro's Shishi Sonson]).

Jack's Zoan form got stomped by 2 Sulong Scabbards who could only do minor damage to casual Dragon Kaido and were manhandled by serious Base Kaido. Not nearly as impressive as Drake doing actually notable damage to someone with Yonko-level durability.

Meanwhile, Zoan Drake's durability is yonko-level due to him tanking Apoo's sound attacks (which are Yonko level due to doing more damage to Post-Udon Base Luffy than Big Mom did) during their offscreen fight (which is heavily supported by Drake later having wounds and bruises on his normal face that he didn't have before fighting Apoo). Sulong Inu and Neko using just a few hits left Zoan Jack near death's door.

Also, look at Jack's Zoan form and then look at Drake's. Drake's Zoan form lets him use that giant jaw of his, while his Hybrid lets him keep his Zoan strength while not being a big target and letting him use his swords so he can get the most out of his impressive power.

Jack's Full Zoan form, while scary at first, does not let him use his skills and power properly at all (since he loses the ability to use his swords in return for some useless tusks, not to mention he's always shown in the anime as being big and cumbersome while moving around in that form), and even though his Hybrid form lets him use his swords, it's also pretty cumbersome to move around and fight in. Not to mention, his Zoan and Hybrid forms are ******* huge targets. No human-sized form like Drake's Hybrid, it's either "massive mammoth" or "still massive half-mammoth". No wonder some fodder Zoan got a few good hits in on him during Roof Piece.

In short, Drake (and Apoo) would've both been way better All Stars than Jack the Joke, and Queen wasn't lying when he called him "Jack the Dragdown".


Dude couldn't even hurt Kaido at all (the closest he got was that Punk Vise that Kaido complemented).

Yet somehow matches Big Mom with 3-Homies (who's equal to Hybrid Kaido like 5 minutes later) in his base even before Awakening.
Click to expand...
At this point even Franky would beat Jack. It's so sad. In fact someone made a video on it:
 
KingTempest said:
This scaling is why I dropped this dumbass verse
Click to expand...
I can't believe One Piece's power scaling is so frustrating that it broke you like that
I feel bad for you, sort of reminds me of that guy who quit a forum because ZKK never came true, except this time it's a rational reason.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
At this point even Franky would beat Jack.
Click to expand...
Lol I wish.

TheMonkeMan said:
I can't believe One Piece's power scaling is so frustrating that it broke you like that
I feel bad for you, sort of reminds me of that guy who quit a forum because ZKK never came true, except this time it's a rational reason.
Click to expand...
Still can't believe thousands of plebians thought Zoro was actually going to be the one to kill Kaido.
 
Eseseso said:
Lol I wish.
Click to expand...
His Radical Beam threatened a Lunarian kid's life to the point where Lilith started malding because of his attack. Now imagine that against Jack the Jobber.
Eseseso said:
Still can't believe thousands of plebians thought Zoro was actually going to be the one to kill Kaido.
Click to expand...

"B-but Oda's hints!! He gave him Ryuma's sword, and Ryuma is the one who slayed a dragon! He'll inherit Ryuma's will! He killed a dragon in Punk Hazard!"

also, imagine if Zoro finds a Seraph Kaidou and they fight, wonder how the ZKK bros will react
 
TheMonkeMan said:
His Radical Beam threatened a Lunarian kid's life to the point where Lilith started malding because of his attack. Now imagine that against Jack the Jobber.
Click to expand...
Lunarian kid?
TheMonkeMan said:
"B-but Oda's hints!! He gave him Ryuma's sword, and Ryuma is the one who slayed a dragon! He'll inherit Ryuma's will! He killed a dragon in Punk Hazard!"

also, imagine if Zoro finds a Seraph Kaidou and they fight, wonder how the ZKK bros will react
Click to expand...
Kaido with King's broken as **** durability?

He'd be unstoppable.
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
I personally think it's best to separate your passion for a series and your passion for discussing about said series.
Click to expand...
ngl though the most toxic or unhinged part of the One Piece community is the site Worstgen:
It's not people throwing around slurs or anything but it's still kind of toxic and honestly a bit funny though. It's just, full of people who are blatantly only invested in the series to wank certain characters for no reason. They legitimately freak out when Oda drops actual lore and important stuff instead of chapters with just fighting.
 
KingTempest said:
One Piece is one of my favorite verses on earth
And in a heartbeat I would delete it from this wiki if I could
Click to expand...
A ton of series have annoying scaling
You're removing a small portion of trash from the ocean- There will still be a lot more to take care of, and removing that little portion didn't do a lot.
Just being real with you
 
TheMonkeMan said:
ngl though the most toxic or unhinged part of the One Piece community is the site Worstgen:
It's not people throwing around slurs or anything but it's still kind of toxic and honestly a bit funny though. It's just, full of people who are blatantly only invested in the series to wank certain characters for no reason. They legitimately freak out when Oda drops actual lore and important stuff instead of chapters with just fighting.
Click to expand...
Fanverse and Reddit are pretty much the same, although admittedly the people on Fanverse can be pretty funny.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
I respectfully disagree with that one. All due respect, but perhaps we shouldn't have made most of the characters multi-continental and made them all scale to each other for minimal reasons, that kind of ****** us up a bit.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say the reasons are minimal (except for Jack, cuz **** Jack), but the issue is IMO with most of the people scaling to people who themselves downscale.

Not to mention narrative issues that Oda decided to not care about, like Apoo being well above Jack.
 
RoronoaxRobin said:
Fanverse and Reddit are pretty much the same, although admittedly the people on Fanverse can be pretty funny.
Click to expand...
Nah bro I don't think you understand how delusional these people are.. words may not describe it, so pictures might:
F00B57B8-8840-4985-84A7-22AA6B6DE81F.jpg

( A Sanji fan sent this in response to someone saying he didn't harm the Jinbe Seraph. Literally circled a minor bruise, an eye, and a bunch of fcking rocks in the air lol )
 
image.png
btw which one would y'all pick?
I'm voting Team B or D because both have ACoC users who can seemingly neg Hancock's fruit and stop her from clapping everyone else. Also King is really durable, though Marco was able to toss him around a bit, so I don't know if he'd be extremely useful here.
As for Team D, Kuma can always just pull out the pain from his allies and throw it to his enemies, which is deadly if his ally got hit by someone like Yamato or Magellan.
 
Eseseso said:
JFC I'm so damn tired of Enel wankers.
Click to expand...
Enel is the most Overrated Character in One Piece.
Alot of fans Saying that Enel is Admiral level because they think that Raigo is Island Busting. The fact that he is physically weaker than Pre Gear Luffy. The main Idea of that Enel is admiral level because his destructive Capability with Raigo better than Zeus, one of Bigmom's Strongest weapons.
RoronoaxRobin said:
I'm tired of them and Sabo wankers (even though I like Sabo)
Click to expand...
Sabo wank is not as worst as Enel wank.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Deadliest assassins? Not sure about that. They haven't even succeeded with a single assignment. Capture Nico Robin, said the Five Elders.
What did they do? Got blown up by Apoo, pushed to mid/high diff by Drake, failed to get Luffy permanently killed and had one of their agents possibly die to Kaidou ( yes he survived to take Luffy's photo but he probably died shortly after that ).
Went to Dressrosa to apprehend the Revolutionaries, and failed.
Click to expand...
They cannot due to allies plot armor from Oda
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Sabo is atleast powerful though. Also I swear he was island level before, what happened to that?
Click to expand...
While that's true, folks on Reddit really think he can beat an Admiral now because he successfully escaped the fight against Aramaki and Issho (who were holding back) at Mary Geoise with Kuma and also that he's Emperor Level because of his "Flame Emperor" epithet. They also put him ahead of Law, Kid, Zoro, and Yamato, despite all four having better feats than him while Sabo's best feat is questionably injuring a suppressed Issho. I say questionably because we don't know if he hurt Issho alone or if one of the Rev Commanders helped him.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
I respectfully disagree with that one. All due respect, but perhaps we shouldn't have made most of the characters multi-continental and made them all scale to each other for minimal reasons, that kind of ****** us up a bit.
Click to expand...
You mfs made base Zoro and base Drake near the levels of Kaidou and Big Mom from upscaling from people who backscaled from them.

"****** us up a bit" lmfao
 
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