One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[KingTempest]

Wait, we're scaling Queen to the new value?

Was it ever mentioned that King and Queen are comparable?

they're backscaling

 

[Kachon123]

There are many ways that Queen could scale to High 6-B, but I can only think of 2 of the top of my head.

First way:

Big Mom scales to the High 6-B
Killer can take Big Mom Indura attacks without major issues
Hawkins can harm Killer
Queen > Hawkins

Second way:

Kaido scales to the High 6-B
Base Luffy could take Thunder Bagua from Kaido
Gear 3 Luffy > Base Luffy
X Drake > Gear 3 Luffy
Base Queen > X Drake

As for Sanji:


Zoan Forms Queen > Base Queen
Pre Awakening Base Sanji can harm Zoan Queen
Pre Awakening DJ Sanji > Pre Awakening Base Sanji
Current Base Sanji > Pre Awakening DJ Sanji
Current DJ Sanji > Current Base Sanji
Current Ifrit Sanji > Current DJ Sanji

 

[SnookB]

If we still have the scabbards back scale from Kaido then I think Sanji and King would logically scale above them.

Let's use the current value of 62 teratons for now (until later changes)

4 scabbards Togen totsuka scales to 62Teratons. Each of the scabbards individually scales to 1/4th of the full value.
Zoro with Enma drawing Haki/Ashura Zoro also scale to 62TT (One for making BM tell Kaido to dodge and tanking a lightning blast and the other for parrying thhen scarring Hybrid Kaido permanently while he had two dozen broken bones or so according to Law)
King scales to 62TT for tanking Zoro's hits before COC Infusion
Queen likely scales to King since the crew is based off power rankings and King/Queen are portrayed as not too far apart, so he scales to the 62
Sanji post germa cells-awakening scales to 62
The rest you already know. But that's just for the King/Queen scales

 

[SnookB]

Hawkins can harm Killer

A lil' sus on that. Killer was letting Hawkins kick his ass because he didn't want to hurt his captain by fighting back.

 

[Kachon123]

A lil' sus on that. Killer was letting Hawkins kick his ass because he didn't want to hurt his captain by fighting back.

Is harming still not harming?

 

[SnookB]

Is harming still not harming?

In that context it doesn't really feel solid to use it as a justification tbh. The other scaling chains all look fine but that one stuck out to me

 

[Eseseso]

Let's use the current value of 62 teratons for now (until later changes)

4 scabbards Togen totsuka scales to 62Teratons. Each of the scabbards individually scales to 1/4th of the full value.
Zoro with Enma drawing Haki/Ashura Zoro also scale to 62TT (One for making BM tell Kaido to dodge and tanking a lightning blast and the other for parrying thhen scarring Hybrid Kaido permanently while he had two dozen broken bones or so according to Law)
King scales to 62TT for tanking Zoro's hits before COC Infusion
Queen likely scales to King since the crew is based off power rankings and King/Queen are portrayed as not too far apart, so he scales to the 62
Sanji post germa cells-awakening scales to 62
The rest you already know. But that's just for the King/Queen scales

1. I'm sorry, but why again do the 4 scabbards scale to 1/4th of the 62TT value, when IIRC that barely damaged Kaido?

2. Eh, there's kind of a big gap between King and Queen, since Base King alone is >= Hybrid Queen.

3. Does Jack also scale to the scabbards?

4. Does Perospero scale to Sulong Inurashi and Nekomamushi?

5. Wasn't it recently agreed that Zoro's sword styles multiply his power based on how many he's using? How does that affect his scaling?

 

[Eseseso]

On another subject, my college exams ARE FINALLY OVER!

SAL-*******-VATION!

 

[Kachon123]

3. Does Jack also scale to the scabbards?

Most likely.

 

[Kachon123]

In that context it doesn't really feel solid to use it as a justification tbh.

Fair enough.

Theres also some Marco scaling for Queen, but KingTempest seems really against it

 

[SnookB]

1. I'm sorry, but why again do the 4 scabbards scale to 1/4th of the 62TT value, when IIRC that barely damaged Kaido?

It took all 4 to have him damaged and bleeding a good bit similiarly to the original attack itself. The difference here according to Kaido himself is that they couldn't leave a scar.

2. Eh, there's kind of a big gap between King and Queen, since Base King alone is >= Hybrid Queen.

Likely. Again, I'm trying to justify Sanji hanging with the 6B folks with a somewhat reasonable scale/chain

3. Does Jack also scale to the scabbards?

He fought Neko and Inu for days.
He also fought Neko and Inu again (albeit off screen) after getting jjumped by the mink army. I believe Hybrid Jack held his own vs Sulong Neko and Inu alongside Perospero too, and the reason he got beat was because he (like perospero) was on his last leg and basically only initially won because of the moon getting hid. Still, not getting one shot is a feat in itself.

4. Does Perospero scale to Sulong Inurashi and Nekomamushi?

Answered above

5. Wasn't it recently agreed that Zoro's sword styles multiply his power based on how many he's using? How does that affect his scaling?

With Enma it shouldn't. Enma draws the maximum of Zoro's haki for Hiryu Kaen on Kaido. And it drew out his CoC (maybe) vs Kaido for maximum output again. Maybe Only Ashura multiplies his scale post king of hell mode.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Second way:

Kaido scales to the High 6-B
Base Luffy could take Thunder Bagua from Kaido
Gear 3 Luffy > Base Luffy
X Drake > Gear 3 Luffy
Base Queen > X Drake

I’m sure this has been talked about a lot but I don’t agree with Drake scaling above G3. Luffy also used Gear 4th to fight a bunch of fodder right before they got to Onigashima.

 

[Eseseso]

It took all 4 to have him damaged and bleeding a good bit similiarly to the original attack itself. The difference here according to Kaido himself is that they couldn't leave a scar.

If you and the other OP big wigs are certain that they did enough damage to warrant each of them being 1/4 of Kaido, then ok.

Likely. Again, I'm trying to justify Sanji hanging with the 6B folks with a somewhat reasonable scale/chain

I mean, someone on an earlier page IIRC pointed out that the same Sanji that matched Base King was the one who matched Hybrid Queen, so 6-B Sanji seems ok.

He fought Neko and Inu for days.
He also fought Neko and Inu again (albeit off screen) after getting jjumped by the mink army. I believe Hybrid Jack held his own vs Sulong Neko and Inu alongside Perospero too, and the reason he got beat was because he (like perospero) was on his last leg and basically only initially won because of the moon getting hid. Still, not getting one shot is a feat in itself.

Got it, thanks.

Answered above

So, does this affect Katakuri?

With Enma it shouldn't. Enma draws the maximum of Zoro's haki for Hiryu Kaen on Kaido. And it drew out his CoC (maybe) vs Kaido for maximum output again. Maybe Only Ashura multiplies his scale post king of hell mode.

Seems fair.

 

[SnookB]

If you and the other OP big wigs are certain that they did enough damage to warrant each of them being 1/4 of Kaido, then ok.

I always was on the camp of "they damaged him because Ryuou" but apparently a lot of others disagree. The scabbards thing isn't entirely my opinion tbh.

I mean, someone on an earlier page IIRC pointed out that the same Sanji that matched Base King was the one who matched Hybrid Queen, so 6-B Sanji seems ok.

Seems fair. I don't recall when King matched hybrid queen, but he did fight Marco just as well as Queen was using base and Zoan (and Marco also scales to god tiers) so that chain checks out

So, does this affect Katakuri?

Katakuri's been out of commission. Perospero might've got the usual "we get stronger from island to island" thing that Zoro said since he's been active for longer, technically. But maybe? If Kat reappears he'll automatically scale over Perospero for sure.

 

[Eseseso]

Katakuri's been out of commission. Perospero might've got the usual "we get stronger from island to island" thing that Zoro said since he's been active for longer, technically. But maybe? If Kat reappears he'll automatically scale over Perospero for sure.

I don't suppose there's any chance of Katakuri still scaling above Perospero?

 

[SnookB]

I don't suppose there's any chance of Katakuri still scaling above Perospero?

I mean he's got no showings yet. Kat's been MIA since the Luffy fight, so there's really no way to gauge if he's above or below the current strongest in Onigashima

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

The only form of Buso Haki that's dura neg is internal destruction (aka the as of now highest caliber of buso), the more normal ryuou is basically the OP equivalent of ki projection.

 

[Eseseso]

I mean he's got no showings yet. Kat's been MIA since the Luffy fight, so there's really no way to gauge if he's above or below the current strongest in Onigashima

Actually I was kinda hoping that Katakuri in general (like on WCI) would scale above Perospero.

I mean, it makes zero sense for Katakuri even at WCI to be so far below people like the Scabbards and Perospero.

If Perospero had gotten stronger than Katakuri, wouldn't Big Mom have made him a commander yet?

After all, Daifuku did say Katakuri was "the strongest" to Perospero, basically saying that Katakuri > Wano Perospero.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Katakuri's been out of commission. Perospero might've got the usual "we get stronger from island to island" thing that Zoro said since he's been active for longer, technically. But maybe? If Kat reappears he'll automatically scale over Perospero for sure.

For what it’s worth I’m pretty sure one of the BM pirates said that Katakuri was stronger than Perospero while they were at Wano.

Though on the other hand Pre-Udon Luffy probably has no business back-scaling to Kaido

 

[SnookB]

The only form of Buso Haki that's dura neg is internal destruction (aka the as of now highest caliber of buso), the more normal ryuou is basically the OP equivalent of ki projection.

I keep forgetting that. Oden when teaching them Togen Totsuka says "Here's the thing about Ryuou" in the short flashback. I always assumed they learned the dura neg from him (if he had it at all)
But I guess it's just really strong haki output, since Ryuou is the name for haki in wano

 

[SnookB]

I mean, it makes zero sense for Katakuri even at WCI to be so far below people like the Scabbards and Perospero.

Though on the other hand Pre-Udon Luffy probably has no business back-scaling to Kaido

^^ that.
Luffy would backscale if that's the case and for obvious reasons that isn't the case.

Think of it like this-

¨Perospero<Katakuri WCI<Perospero during the raid<Katakuri after the raid whenever he reappears.

For now saying he scales to roofpiece characters is basically (while making sense based on the ranking) just a claim without feats to show for it. Who knows though- he might actually get the tier bump just based off the fact that a weaker brother got strong between WCI and Wano to scale that high.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Having Pero scale is a bit weird but not an absolute no imo cause:

1/4 of Oden >= Ryuou/Buso projection and Buso:Koka Sulong Inuarashi >> Sulong Inuarashi = Sulong Nekomamushi > Base Nekomamushi

and

Perospero =/< Base Neko

And then Sulong Neko one shots Pero.

So if Pero does scale, he would downscale hard.

 

[Eseseso]

For what it’s worth I’m pretty sure one of the BM pirates said that Katakuri was stronger than Perospero while they were at Wano.

Yeah, Daifuku said Katakuri was the strongest, aka above Wano Perospero

Though on the other hand Pre-Udon Luffy probably has no business back-scaling to Kaido

^^ that.
Luffy would backscale if that's the case and for obvious reasons that isn't the case.

Think of it like this-

¨Perospero<Katakuri WCI<Perospero during the raid<Katakuri after the raid whenever he reappears.

For now saying he scales to roofpiece characters is basically (while making sense based on the ranking) just a claim without feats to show for it. Who knows though- he might actually get the tier bump just based off the fact that a weaker brother got strong between WCI and Wano to scale that high.

His Pre-Udon Gear 3 and 4 would just scale to Awakened Katakuri, who would scale above Base Katakuri, who'd scale above Perospero, who FRA scales to 15.5 teratons.

I mean, it's still way below 62 teratons, so Kaido would still stomp him since his base alone would be >=4x stronger than pre-Udon Gear 4.

Besides, it makes more sense for Luffy to get 4x stronger during his Udon training than for him to get tens of thousands of times stronger from average training for just a day or 2.

 

[SnookB]

And then Sulong Neko one shots Pero.

Did Pero fight sulong neko for a while, though? Before the moon disappeared then the cloud split happened?
If not then I agree that he heavily downscales for getting one shot by neko, who scales to the scabbards in that state for the togen totsuka value split.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

What's happening?

 

[SnookB]

Yeah, Daifuku said Katakuri was the strongest, aka above Wano Perospero


His Pre-Udon Gear 3 and 4 would just scale to Awakened Katakuri, who would scale above Base Katakuri, who'd scale above Perospero, who FRA scales to 15.5 teratons.

I mean, it's still way below 62 teratons, so Kaido would still stomp him since his base alone would be >=4x stronger than pre-Udon Gear 4.

Besides, it makes more sense for Luffy to get 4x stronger during his Udon training than for him to get tens of thousands of times stronger from average training for just a day or 2.

Lord- Katakuri's gonna throw one helluva' wrench in the chain when the revisions start. We'll see though

 

[SnookB]

What's happening?

Just a general descussion of if Kat should scale to wano persopero-- I think

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Did Pero fight sulong neko for a while, though? Before the moon disappeared then the cloud split happened?
If not then I agree that he heavily downscales for getting one shot by neko, who scales to the scabbards in that state for the togen totsuka value split.

Hmm gonna have to reread the fight, I think you're right.

I guess Sulong Neko must have had a spurt of energy and one shot a tired Pero.

 

[Eseseso]

Lord- Katakuri's gonna throw one helluva' wrench in the chain when the revisions start. We'll see though

It makes zero sense for ANY version of Katakuri to be 10000x weaker than people who are at best 3rd YC L.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Just a general descussion of if Kat should scale to wano persopero-- I think

Agree above him

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Did Pero fight sulong neko for a while, though? Before the moon disappeared then the cloud split happened?
If not then I agree that he heavily downscales for getting one shot by neko, who scales to the scabbards in that state for the togen totsuka value split.

Alright I reread and yeah, it seems that Pero held out against Sulong Neko, but it was of screen so we don't what happened. Maybe Neko one shot him because he was tired and surprised/off guard? We might just do what we did with Doffy and G4 where he held out against G4 Luffy, but since we didn't see what happened, we don't fully scale him to G4 Luffy.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

What's happening?

Basically just discussing some light Wano scaling that might possibly affect WCI scaling. It's tricky.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

It's tricky.

Wouldn't be for me

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

We get it you're a divine supreme monkey, you have no trouble with trivial things.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

We get it you're a divine supreme monkey, you have no trouble with trivial things.

You guys will never get it

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

You guys will never get it

We'll still try to, humans are too dumb and persistent to give up

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

We'll still try to, humans are too dumb and persistent to give up

Mmm

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Your score: 12 / 15​

You could be considered Luffy's right-hand man!​

You must have been excitedly sitting in front of the screen every time a new episode dropped. You obviously feel right at home in the vast world of One Piece and you probably know most of the characters inside and out. You're especially fond of the Straw Hat's captain — Monkey D. Luffy — and have followed his every move. It seems like you were constantly by his side and grew up to be his right hand! Amazing job!

That's bs... How am I supposed to know the name of the voice actor

whoever did the quiz is actually wrong with the hormones thing. Ivankov injected him once with healing and twice with adrenaline

So I was right?!!!! luffy got injected 3 times by ivankov

 

[WrongIdea21]

Having Pero scale is a bit weird but not an absolute no imo cause:

1/4 of Oden >= Ryuou/Buso projection and Buso:Koka Sulong Inuarashi >> Sulong Inuarashi = Sulong Nekomamushi > Base Nekomamushi

and

Perospero =/< Base Neko

And then Sulong Neko one shots Pero.

So if Pero does scale, he would downscale hard.

Where's these 1/4 scaling From?

 

[Eseseso]

I mean, we could backscale like Cino suggested and scale Wano Perospero (and thus WCI Katakuri) to Baseline 6-B (7 teratons).