One Piece: Enies Lobby Multiplier Additions

[Damage3245]

2. You guys are abusing it. Not every attack that incorporates more than 1 limb is a "combined attack". Tekkai Kenpo's 10 finger shit is not a 4x multiplier because it uses all his limbs. He doesn't use them to attack, he uses 3 of them to move.

I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen someone try a 10x multiplier because the attack incorporates ten fingers.

 

[KingTempest]

I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen someone try a 10x multiplier because the attack incorporates ten fingers.

Don't give ideas

Shigan in definition is using the strength in your entire body focused into a fist.

So even the multiplier for Shigan is flawed

 

[Eminiteable]

1. Make sure base Kaku with his swords is inferior to base Lucci. And before I hear "Base Lucci uses 2 handed attacks too" no the hell he doesn't, except with like 1 special Rankakyu move

Santoryu Zoro is equal to Luffy, who is 108.57 Megatons.
This isn't something that you guys can "well Lucci scales above the value" because he scales to this via doriki.

Which one is it then because Kaku scales to Santoryu Zoro.

 

[KingTempest]

Which one is it then because Kaku scales to Santoryu Zoro.

Zoro at his max (not Asura) is equal to Luffy, because it says he's equal when the need arises/
So with that being said, make sure Kaku's lower than Lucci nd Luffy, and throw Zoro there too

 

[Eminiteable]

Zoro at his max (not Asura) is equal to Luffy, because it says he's equal when the need arises/
So with that being said, make sure Kaku's lower than Lucci nd Luffy, and throw Zoro there too

If you don't include Asura then the statement is proven untrue, Luffy would blatantly be stronger than him and their strength wouldn't be equal as Luffy's Bazooka, Gear 2nd & Gear 3rd all out scale him at their strongest.

The proposed scaling does make Kaku lower than Lucci.

 

[KingTempest]

If you don't include Asura then you're the statement is proven untrue, Luffy would blatantly be stronger than him and their strength wouldn't be equal as Luffy's Bazooka, Gear 2nd & Gear 3rd all out scale him at their strongest.

This statement can apply for Water 7 then, scaling Luffy above him then.

The proposed scaling does make Kaku lower than Lucci.

Base Kaku's Nitoryu scales above Lucci's base, while Lucci is quite frankly superior to Kaku w/out any DF ability, so it doesn't make Kaku lower

 

[Eminiteable]

This statement can apply for Water 7 then, scaling Luffy above him then.

Based on what? The databook that the statement comes from covers everything to the end of enies lobby.

Base Kaku's Nitoryu scales above Lucci's base

Yeah, because he's using two hands which inevitably makes him stronger than Lucci using one as the strength difference between them based on Doriki is less than 2 times.

while Lucci is quite frankly superior to Kaku w/out any DF ability, so it doesn't make Kaku lower

Based on what?

 

[KingTempest]

Time to tackle the entire CRT

Base Lucci's Rokushiki matched Luffy's bazooka and would scale to double the value of his base form at 217.14 Megatons

Via the last CRT and how this statement directly applies to Luffy's technique, this works

Kaku can use Yontoryu which incorporates both arms strength and thus is double a regular shoulder tap, Yontoryu Kaku would scale to 119.42 megatons

Nitoryu, not Yontoryu

Santoryu Zoro matched him thus he scales to the same value as Yontoryu Kaku (119.42 megatons)

Kaku's base Rokushiki matched Nitoryu Zoro, which is 2/3rd of Santoryu thus scaling Rokushiki Kaku to 79.61 megatons

You fail to understand

Kaku's Yontoryu and Kaku's Rokushiki are one in the same, because Kaku's Yontoryu incorporates his Rankakyus.

Hybrid Kaku matched Nitoryu Zoro and thus scales to that value (79.61 megatons)

Hybrid Kaku's Rokushiki matched Santoryu Zoro and thus scales to that value (119.42 megatons)

Hybrid Kaku's Rankyaku Rodan is using both limbs and thus scales two times above his Hybrid Rokushiki value, making him scale to 238.84 megatons. Zoro's Goken matched this attack and thus scales there as well.

This is fine.

Hybrid Kaku's Nitoryu (Note that here he only used the swords to attack and didn't use his legs) was shown comparable to Santoryu Zoro and thus scales to him (119.42 megatons)

Hybrid Kaku's Yontoryu (Here he states that this is a four sword assault unlike before) incorporates his full power Yontoryu by attacking with his swords and legs in unison and completely overpowers Base Zoro, due to the double limbs he would scale double to his Hybrid Nitoryu value 238.84 megatons

This is wrong

This is not a combined attack. This is limbs being used back and forth, but not once does he attack with more than 1 limb at the same time.

Hybrid Jabra often uses two limbs to attack when using Rokushiki, so attacks such as Jusshigan and Okami Hajiki would scale to 118.34 megatons.

Shigan, no. Shigan uses the strength of the body in 1 finger. All this is doing is spreading the strength out but raising the lethality with more fingers.

Hybrid Jabra's Gekko Jusshigan uses the power all limbs, so Gekko Jusshigan would scale to 236.68 megatons.

No. Half of those were used for the propulsion, not for actually attacking.

Base Sanji was able to take Okami Hajiki with minimal damage, so Sanji scales to 118.34 megatons

Didn't half of a Jusshigan hurt him to a noticeable extent? And a single punch hurt him too

Hybrid Jabra using Tekkai could tank 2 consecutive hits from Base Sanji, so his Tekkai would scale to 355.02 megatons

Using 2 attacks back to back ≠ using a combined attack with 2 limbs

 

[Eminiteable]

Nitoryu, not Yontoryu

You fail to understand. Kaku's Yontoryu and Kaku's Rokushiki are one in the same, because Kaku's Yontoryu incorporates his Rankakyus.

This is wrong. This is not a combined attack. This is limbs being used back and forth, but not once does he attack with more than 1 limb at the same time.

Fair enough

I see what you mean but Kaku using the two swords matched Santoryu Zoro while his Rokushiki matched a Nitoryu attack. Unlike Zoro he doesn't attack with all four of his weapons in unison like you mentioned below so they would be separate.

I agree.

 

[KingTempest]

Based on what? The databook that the statement comes from covers everything to the end of enies lobby.

And the fact that damn near everything contradicts it means that the only times that they're implied to actually be comparable (prior to enies lobby)

Yeah, because he's using two hands which inevitably makes him stronger than Lucci using one as the strength difference between them based on Doriki is less than 2 times.

Then with this being said I have an issue with how we hold this multiplier when it comes to swordsmen, as these are dudes who use the strength of more than 1 body part in single limbs. Swordsmanship isn't like punching where you use 1 limb and that's it, it incorporates swinging which uses your whole body and more than just an arm.

Based on what?

The fact that everyone thought that Lucci was the strongest member while his Zoan form was classified info. People didn't even know he had a Zoan form, but they knew of his capabilities as the strongest member.

 

[Eminiteable]

Swordsmanship isn't like punching where you use 1 limb and that's it, it incorporates swinging which uses your whole body and more than just an arm.

Do you not understand how punching works? Both using a sword and punching both require the use of your entire body to an extent.

The fact that everyone thought that Lucci was the strongest member while his Zoan form was classified info. People didn't even know he had a Zoan form, but they knew of his capabilities as the strongest member.

Your classified info link is wrong, He's stated for as the strongest in history but that statement isn't based on what random goons think who didn't even know he had a Zoan otherwise the statement would hold no merit, the statement is based either on WOG or those fully knowledgeable on Lucci who are aware he can use a zoan form and Rokushiki who both scale well above Kaku's swordsmanship.

 

[KingTempest]

Do you not understand how punching works? Both using a sword and punching both require the use of your entire body to an extent.

Apparently in OP it doesn't since the gomu users (Luffy and Oars) don't even move their bodies and they just move their limbs which brings the multiplier, whereas these dudes are lunging and doing everything they're capable of doing w/ 2 hands with 1, like Zoro blocking a 2 hand Kaku strike with one hand.

Your classified info link is wrong,

https://cdn.****************.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_348_18.jpg

He's stated for as the strongest in history but that statement isn't based on what random goons think who didn't even know he had a Zoan otherwise the statement would hold no merit, the statement is based either on WOG or those fully knowledgeable on Lucci who are aware he can use a zoan form and Rokushiki who both scale well above Kaku's swordsmanship.

The MF who said he's the strongest in CP9's history is a vice admiral who works with him, and he didn't even know it was Lucci until he saw his base.
Kuma's a Shichibukai, someone who has no reason on earth to know the higher capabilities of Lucci, and even he said "Nobody thought Lucci could lose".

 

[Kachon123]

Didn't half of a Jusshigan hurt him to a noticeable extent?

Sanji the entire firght was wary of attacks with piecing damage. It's a weakness of his as shown in the scan you sent when he said "Uwah!! A slashing attack!?"

And a single punch hurt him too

He was off guard as he didn't even know Jabra was there.

 

[KingTempest]

He was off guard as he didn't even know Jabra was there.

He flat out announced his presence there and Sanji noticed him far before he was even in punching range

 

[Eminiteable]

Apparently in OP it doesn't since the gomu users (Luffy and Oars) don't even move their bodies and they just move their limbs which brings the multiplier, whereas these dudes are lunging and doing everything they're capable of doing w/ 2 hands with 1, like Zoro blocking a 2 hand Kaku strike with one hand.

I agree that in OP they don't fully function like in reality, however that applies to swordsmanship the same as it does punches, the example of Kaku isn't accurate as while Zoro did block the attack that has nothing to do with combined attacks; Zoro combining the strength of all three "limbs" produces 3 times the force as shown with his Pound Phoenix. Here Zoro stabbed the ground for stability to tank the attack, this isn't an antifeat for swords effecting multiplier values.

The MF who said he's the strongest in CP9's history is a vice admiral who works with him, and he didn't even know it was Lucci until he saw his base.
Kuma's a Shichibukai, someone who has no reason on earth to know the higher capabilities of Lucci, and even he said "Nobody thought Lucci could lose".

So here's the thing, if we're basing the statement purely on what vice-admirals think then they'd have no knowledge on current Lucci's strength or those that operated in the Water 7 mission as they all grew stronger than before so the statement isn't even valid. I can't say for certain though but there's nothing suggesting they don't know about Lucci being a rokushiki master (that seems to be common knowledge for CP9 but I could be wrong) and Lucci with Rokushiki is massively stronger than Kaku making the statement still valid.

 

[KingTempest]

I agree that in OP they don't fully function like in reality, however that applies to swordsmanship the same as it does punches, the example of Kaku isn't accurate as while Zoro did block the attack that has nothing to do with combined attacks; Zoro combining the strength of all three "limbs" produces 3 times the force as shown with his Pound Phoenix.

Ok. Where is that ever shown to produce 3 times the force, when he can use pound phoenix with 3 limbs and it's significantly stronger.

Here Zoro stabbed the ground for stability to tank the attack, this isn't an antifeat for swords effecting multiplier values.

So here's the thing, if we're basing the statement purely on what vice-admirals think then they'd have no knowledge on current Lucci's strength or those that operated in the Water 7 mission as they all grew stronger than before so the statement isn't even valid. I can't say for certain though but there's nothing suggesting they don't know about Lucci being a rokushiki master (that seems to be common knowledge for CP9 but I could be wrong) and Lucci with Rokushiki is massively stronger than Kaku making the statement still valid.

hmph. fine.

 

[Eminiteable]

Ok. Where is that ever shown to produce 3 times the force, when he can use pound phoenix with 3 limbs and it's significantly stronger.

Besides the fact that the pound pheonix number naming scheme directly relates to how much strength is being used (Whether swords are used or the amount of people), the best example was early on in the series against Buchi & Sham; Zoro with one sword was struggling with both of them and comments that if he had even just one more sword that wouldn't be the case, they comment that having more swords wouldn't change his level he states otherwise and proceeds to prove it by one-shotting both of them. Against Ohm; his two sword style hawk wave failed against Ohm's iron cloud sword as did his 36 pound phoenix, his 108 pound phoenix destroyed his cloud sword.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

This combined attack multiplier really is getting abused and giving us a headache, huh?... Flipping hell...

 

[Damage3245]

This combined attack multiplier really is getting abused and giving us a headache, huh?... Flipping hell...

Who could have seen this coming?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Who could have seen this coming?

I wrote about 4 different replies to this "I told you so" attitude.

Some agree with you
Some disagree.

But ultimately, I just don't have the energy...

 

[Eseseso]

This combined attack multiplier really is getting abused and giving us a headache, huh?... Flipping hell...

Yeah.

Even as someone who loves this kinda crap, I feel like this is going out of control.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Yeah.

Even as someone who loves this kinda crap, I feel like this is going out of control.

Honestly sick of it, will be dropping a thread later today about it.

I'm sure Damage is going to love it.

 

[Damage3245]

Well, I'll reserve judgement till I see the contents.

 

[Eseseso]

Honestly sick of it, will be dropping a thread later today about it.

Needs to be done.

 

[Jibz]

Why dont we x Zoro’s one sword style feats by 3 because he’d usually be doing a combined attack with 3 blades most of the time so he’d have two extra swords which would all do the same ap damage in a 1 sword calc.

 

[Eseseso]

If this CRT is ever resumed, Jet Gatling should scale to Hybrid Lucci's Tekkai for breaking through it.