One Piece: Enies Lobby Multiplier Additions

[Kachon123]

Huge thanks to @Eminiteable for the Kaku and Zoro side of things and @KingTempest for helping me with a lot of the things mentioned in this thread.

Spoiler: Lucci

Base Lucci's Rokushiki matched Luffy's bazooka and would scale to double the value of his base form at 217.14 Megatons

Hybrid Lucci's with Rokushiki would scale above Hybrid Kaku's Rodan & Yontoryu via his statement of being the strongest, he also cut through the underwater tunnel which Zoro with Goken failed to do, scaling him above 238.84 MT.

Hybrid Lucci's Rokushiki is capable of using double handed attacks like Shigan Madara and Rokougan and thus with these attacks would scale double his Hybrid Rokushiki value, scaling him to 477.68 MT.

Spoiler: Zoro and Kaku

A base one-arm elbow strike scales to 59.71 Megatons

Kaku can use Yontoryu which incorporates both arms strength and thus is double a regular shoulder tap, Yontoryu Kaku would scale to 119.42 megatons

Santoryu Zoro matched him thus he scales to the same value as Yontoryu Kaku (119.42 megatons)

Kaku's base Rokushiki matched Nitoryu Zoro, which is 2/3rd of Santoryu thus scaling Rokushiki Kaku to 79.61 megatons

Hybrid Kaku matched Nitoryu Zoro and thus scales to that value (79.61 megatons)

Hybrid Kaku's Rokushiki matched Santoryu Zoro and thus scales to that value (119.42 megatons)

Hybrid Kaku's Rankyaku Rodan is using both limbs and thus scales two times above his Hybrid Rokushiki value, making him scale to 238.84 megatons. Zoro's Goken matched this attack and thus scales there as well.

Hybrid Kaku's Nitoryu (Note that here he only used the swords to attack and didn't use his legs) was shown comparable to Santoryu Zoro and thus scales to him (119.42 megatons)

Hybrid Kaku's Yontoryu (Here he states that this is a four sword assault unlike before) incorporates his full power Yontoryu by attacking with his swords and legs in unison and completely overpowers Base Zoro, due to the double limbs he would scale double to his Hybrid Nitoryu value 238.84 megatons

Hybrid Kaku's Rankyaku "Amane Dachi" is the strongest rankyaku attack making it superior to his Rodan (238.84 megatons) and Lucci's Rankyaku (217.14 Megatons). It's also a two limb rankyaku and thus regardless would scale to the same value as Rodan at least.

Zoro's Asura is 3 times more powerful than his Santoryu and thus scales to 358.26 megatons.

Asura also stopped Hybrid Yontoryu's assault (238.84 megatons), reduced Amane Dachi to mist (238.84 megatons) and one-shot Hybrid Kaku.

Overall scaling would look like this:

Kaku: 59.71 MT, 79.61 MT with Rokushiki or Hybrid , 119.42 MT with Yontoryu or Hybrid Rokushiki or Hybrid Nitoryu, 238.84 MT with Rankyaku Rodan or Hybrid Yontoryu, higher with Rankyaku Amane Dachi

Zoro: 119.42 MT, 238.84 MT with Goken, 358.26 MT with Asura

Spoiler: Sanji and Jabra

Every CP9 members hit Fukurou with a single limb, so it should be assumed to be the same with Jabra's 59.17 megatons rating.

Hybrid Jabra often uses two limbs to attack when using Rokushiki, so attacks such as Jusshigan and Okami Hajiki would scale to 118.34 megatons.

Hybrid Jabra's Gekko Jusshigan uses the power all limbs, so Gekko Jusshigan would scale to 236.68 megatons.

Base Sanji was able to take Okami Hajiki with minimal damage, so Sanji scales to 118.34 megatons

Hybrid Jabra using Tekkai could tank 2 consecutive hits from Base Sanji, so his Tekkai would scale to 355.02 megatons

Diable Jambe Sanji could break through Jabra's Tekkai, so Diable Sanji would scale above 355.02 megatons.

Overall scaling would look like this:

Jabra AP: 59.17 MT, higher with Rokushiki or Hybrid, 118.34 MT with Jusshigan or Okami Hajiki, 236.68 MT with Gekko Jusshigan
Jabra Dura: 59.17 MT, higher with Rokushiki or Hybrid, 355.02 MT with Tekkai

Sanji: 177.51 MT, 355.02 with Diable Jambe

 

[Damage3245]

Hybrid Jabra's Gekko Jusshigan uses the power all limbs, so Gekko Jusshigan would scale to 236.68 megatons.

I honestly think that this is stretching the definition of what should be permissible with the current multiplier. Kicking off the air with his legs to then strike with an attack with both arms = the attack is 4 times more powerful than him attacking with one arm? I think that's a huge reach.

 

[Eseseso]

Before I give my opinion, @Eminiteable once mentioned in another thread that, quote,

"Also I think Zoro's Goken scales to 217.14 MT due to matching Kaku's Roudan which is a double rankyaku attack."

 

[Kachon123]

I honestly think that this is stretching the definition of what should be permissible with the current multiplier. Kicking off the air with his legs to then strike with an attack with both arms = the attack is 4 times more powerful than him attacking with one arm? I think that's a huge reach.

The main point of the Gekko Jusshigan is a much more powerful version of regular Jusshigan. He literally uses the power of his legs to amp the attack further. I believe that using it is fine.

 

[Eminiteable]

Before I give my opinion, @Eminiteable once mentioned in another thread that, quote,

"Also I think Zoro's Goken scales to 217.14 MT due to matching Kaku's Roudan which is a double rankyaku attack."

It's in the op

 

[Eseseso]

I honestly think that this is stretching the definition of what should be permissible with the current multiplier. Kicking off the air with his legs to then strike with an attack with both arms = the attack is 4 times more powerful than him attacking with one arm? I think that's a huge reach.

Yeah I agree, it should only be 2x multiplier.

 

[Eseseso]

The main point of the Gekko Jusshigan is a much more powerful version of regular Jusshigan. He literally uses the power of his legs to amp the attack further. I believe that using it is fine.

Is there any proof that can back this up?

 

[Kachon123]

Is there any proof that can back this up?

The scan I sent. Jabra uses Geppo to amp the power of his attack.

 

[Damage3245]

Base Sanji was able to knock away 1/4 of Gekko Jusshigan's power, so Sanji's AP would scale to 177.51 megatons

You've got Sanji knocking away 1/4 of it, but scaling his AP to 3/4 of it.

 

[Kachon123]

Hybrid Jabra using Tekkai could tank 2 consecutive hits from Base Sanji, so his Tekkai would scale to 355.02 megatons

Also for this part, it may be a low ball.

Here is the original scan. It could very well be more than two kicks Jabra tankes.

 

[Eseseso]

The scan I sent. Jabra uses Geppo to amp the power of his attack.

Which scan?

 

[Kachon123]

Which scan?

 

[Eseseso]

Also, this would boost Usopp's durability since in one of the scans he clearly took a 2-handed Jabra hit, which in turn boosts Hody Jones.

 

[Kachon123]

You've got Sanji knocking away 1/4 of it, but scaling his AP to 3/4 of it.

Fixed, but can I have your input on this?

Also for this part, it may be a low ball.

Here is the original scan. It could very well be more than two kicks Jabra tankes.

It seems like 3 or more kicks. How many do you see?

 

[Eseseso]

But what I'm asking is whether this is proven to boost his strength.

 

[Kachon123]

Also, this would boost Usopp's durability since in one of the scans he clearly took a 2-handed Jabra hit, which in turn boosts Hody Jones.

We're removing that scaling. Usopp clearly doesn't scale.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Huge thanks to @Eminiteable for the Kaku and Zoro side of things and @KingTempest for helping me with a lot of the things mentioned in this thread.

Spoiler: Zoro and Kaku

A base one-arm elbow strike scales to 59.71 Megatons

Kaku can use Yontoryu which incorporates both arms strength and thus is double a regular shoulder tap, Yontoryu Kaku would scale to 119.42 megatons

Santoryu Zoro matched him thus he scales to the same value as Yontoryu Kaku (119.42 megatons)

Kaku's base Rokushiki matched Nitoryu Zoro, which is 2/3rd of Santoryu thus scaling Rokushiki Kaku to 79.61 megatons

Hybrid Kaku matched Nitoryu Zoro and thus scales to that value (79.61 megatons)

Hybrid Kaku's Rokushiki matched Santoryu Zoro and thus scales to that value (119.42 megatons)

Hybrid Kaku's Rankyaku Rodan is using both limbs and thus scales two times above his Hybrid Rokushiki value, making him scale to 238.84 megatons. Zoro's Goken matched this attack and thus scales there as well.

Hybrid Kaku's Nitoryu (Note that here he only used the swords to attack and didn't use his legs) was shown comparable to Santoryu Zoro and thus scales to him (119.42 megatons)

Hybrid Kaku's Yontoryu (Here he states that this is a four sword assault unlike before) incorporates his full power Yontoryu by attacking with his swords and legs in unison and completely overpowers Base Zoro, due to the double limbs he would scale double to his Hybrid Nitoryu value 238.84 megatons

Hybrid Kaku's Rankyaku "Amane Dachi" is the strongest rankyaku attack making it superior to his Rodan (238.84 megatons) and Lucci's Rankyaku (217.14 Megatons). It's also a two limb rankyaku and thus regardless would scale to the same value as Rodan at least.

Zoro's Asura is 3 times more powerful than his Santoryu and thus scales to 358.26 megatons.

Asura also stopped Hybrid Yontoryu's assault (238.84 megatons), reduced Amane Dachi to mist (238.84 megatons) and one-shot Hybrid Kaku.

Overall scaling would look like this:

Kaku: 59.71 MT, 79.61 MT with Rokushiki or Hybrid , 119.42 MT with Yontoryu or Hybrid Rokushiki or Hybrid Nitoryu, 238.84 MT with Rankyaku Rodan or Hybrid Yontoryu, higher with Rankyaku Amane Dachi

Zoro: 119.42 MT, 238.84 MT with Goken, 358.26 MT with Asura

Spoiler: Sanji and Jabra

Every CP9 members hit Fukurou with a single limb, so it should be assumed to be the same with Jabra's 59.17 megatons rating.

Hybrid Jabra often uses two limbs to attack when using Rokushiki, so
Hybrid Jabra using Tekkai could tank 2 consecutive hits from Base Sanji, so his Tekkai would scale to 355.02 megatons

Spoiler: Sanji and Jabra

That is immense bullshit. Taking two 177 MT hits in quick succession doesn't make you twice as strong as it. And our current multiplier doesn't even allow for this, gatling attacks aren't accepted as "a combination of Luffy's attacks per second"

 

[Eseseso]

We're removing that scaling. Usopp clearly doesn't scale.

Says who? Is there a thread for this?

 

[KingTempest]

Hybrid Jabra using Tekkai could tank 2 consecutive hits from Base Sanji, so his Tekkai would scale to 355.02 megatons

Diable Jambe Sanji could break through Jabra's Tekkai, so Diable Sanji would scale above 355.02 megatons.

No.
2 back to back attacks ≠ combined. They need to be at the same time for the multiplier to apply

Now for the case of the Zoro Kaku stuff, there's an issue.

Santoryu Zoro is equal to Luffy, who is 108.57 Megatons.
This isn't something that you guys can "well Lucci scales above the value" because he scales to this via doriki.

So Lucci would be forced to stay at this value.

This means that this

Hybrid Kaku's Rokushiki matched Santoryu Zoro and thus scales to that value (119.42 megatons)

Is an issue

 

[Kachon123]

But what I'm asking is whether this is proven to boost his strength.

Because he's literally adding the momentum and power provided from his legs.

 

[Damage3245]

It seems like 3 or more kicks. How many do you see?

Definitely more than two, but you can't multiply the AP of them by how many of them there are to get Jabra's durability.

 

[Eminiteable]

Now for the case of the Zoro Kaku stuff, there's an issue.

Santoryu Zoro is equal to Luffy, who is 108.57 Megatons.
This isn't something that you guys can "well Lucci scales above the value" because he scales to this via doriki.

So Lucci would be forced to stay at this value.

This means that this
Is an issue

The statement of them being equal isn't stated to be base to base.

 

[Eseseso]

No.
2 back to back attacks ≠ combined. They need to be at the same time for the multiplier to apply

Agree

Now for the case of the Zoro Kaku stuff, there's an issue.


Santoryu Zoro is equal to Luffy, who is 108.57 Megatons.
This isn't something that you guys can "well Lucci scales above the value" because he scales to this via doriki.

So Lucci would be forced to stay at this value.

This means that this

Is an issue

Well the gap between those 2 values isn't that big...

 

[Eseseso]

The statement of them being equal isn't stated to be base to base.

This.

 

[KingTempest]

The statement of them being equal isn't stated to be base to base.

This.

Which versions is it then?

Because if it counts for Bazooka being equal to Santoryu, then this scales his Nitoryu above Lucci, which scales Kaku above Lucci.

 

[Eminiteable]

Which versions is it then?

Because if it counts for Bazooka being equal to Santoryu, then this scales his Nitoryu above Lucci, which scales Kaku above Lucci.

I remember initially we had Asura & Gear 3rd as that's them at their strongest thus the statement of their strength being equal would cover them at their very strongest making no inconsistencies in statement.

 

[Kachon123]

Base Sanji was able to knock away 1/4 of Gekko Jusshigan's power, but Jabra said that Sanji would've been able to knock away the other hand if he was fast enough, so Sanji's AP would scale to half of Gekko Jusshigan (118.34 megatons)

Edited this part.

 

[Damage3245]

Base Sanji was able to knock away 1/4 of Gekko Jusshigan's power, but Jabra said that Sanji would've been able to knock away the other hand if he was fast enough, so Sanji's AP would scale to half of Gekko Jusshigan (118.34 megatons)

Jabra says "other kick", so not the same attack, meaning that you shouldn't assume base Sanji could stop both hands with the same kick.

 

[Kachon123]

Jabra says "other kick", so not the same attack, meaning that you shouldn't assume base Sanji could stop both hands with the same kick.

Base Sanji was able to take Okami Hajiki with minimal damage, so Sanji scales to 118.34 megatons

 

[Damage3245]

@Kachon123; which chapter?

 

[Kachon123]

@Kachon123; which chapter?

414 and 415.

 

[Eminiteable]

Huge thanks to @Eminiteable for the Kaku and Zoro side of things and @KingTempest for helping me with a lot of the things mentioned in this thread.

Spoiler: Zoro and Kaku

A base one-arm elbow strike scales to 59.71 Megatons

Kaku can use Yontoryu which incorporates both arms strength and thus is double a regular shoulder tap, Yontoryu Kaku would scale to 119.42 megatons

Santoryu Zoro matched him thus he scales to the same value as Yontoryu Kaku (119.42 megatons)

Kaku's base Rokushiki matched Nitoryu Zoro, which is 2/3rd of Santoryu thus scaling Rokushiki Kaku to 79.61 megatons

Hybrid Kaku matched Nitoryu Zoro and thus scales to that value (79.61 megatons)

Hybrid Kaku's Rokushiki matched Santoryu Zoro and thus scales to that value (119.42 megatons)

Hybrid Kaku's Rankyaku Rodan is using both limbs and thus scales two times above his Hybrid Rokushiki value, making him scale to 238.84 megatons. Zoro's Goken matched this attack and thus scales there as well.

Hybrid Kaku's Nitoryu (Note that here he only used the swords to attack and didn't use his legs) was shown comparable to Santoryu Zoro and thus scales to him (119.42 megatons)

Hybrid Kaku's Yontoryu (Here he states that this is a four sword assault unlike before) incorporates his full power Yontoryu by attacking with his swords and legs in unison and completely overpowers Base Zoro, due to the double limbs he would scale double to his Hybrid Nitoryu value 238.84 megatons

Hybrid Kaku's Rankyaku "Amane Dachi" is the strongest rankyaku attack making it superior to his Rodan (238.84 megatons) and Lucci's Rankyaku (217.14 Megatons). It's also a two limb rankyaku and thus regardless would scale to the same value as Rodan at least.

Zoro's Asura is 3 times more powerful than his Santoryu and thus scales to 358.26 megatons.

Asura also stopped Hybrid Yontoryu's assault (238.84 megatons), reduced Amane Dachi to mist (238.84 megatons) and one-shot Hybrid Kaku.

Overall scaling would look like this:

Kaku: 59.71 MT, 79.61 MT with Rokushiki or Hybrid , 119.42 MT with Yontoryu or Hybrid Rokushiki or Hybrid Nitoryu, 238.84 MT with Rankyaku Rodan or Hybrid Yontoryu, higher with Rankyaku Amane Dachi

Zoro: 119.42 MT, 238.84 MT with Goken, 358.26 MT with Asura

Spoiler: Sanji and Jabra

Every CP9 members hit Fukurou with a single limb, so it should be assumed to be the same with Jabra's 59.17 megatons rating.

Hybrid Jabra often uses two limbs to attack when using Rokushiki, so attacks such as Jusshigan and Okami Hajiki would scale to 118.34 megatons.

Hybrid Jabra's Gekko Jusshigan uses the power all limbs, so Gekko Jusshigan would scale to 236.68 megatons.

Base Sanji was able to knock away 1/4 of Gekko Jusshigan's power, so Sanji's AP would scale to 177.51 megatons

Hybrid Jabra using Tekkai could tank 2 consecutive hits from Base Sanji, so his Tekkai would scale to 355.02 megatons

Diable Jambe Sanji could break through Jabra's Tekkai, so Diable Sanji would scale above 355.02 megatons.

Overall scaling would look like this:

Jabra AP: 59.17 MT, higher with Rokushiki or Hybrid, 118.34 MT with Jusshigan or Okami Hajiki, 236.68 MT with Gekko Jusshigan
Jabra Dura: 59.17 MT, higher with Rokushiki or Hybrid, 355.02 MT with Tekkai

Sanji: 177.51 MT, 355.02 with Diable Jambe

Some stuff that can be added to the OP for Lucci:

Spoiler: Lucci Scaling

Base Lucci's Rokushiki matched Luffy's bazooka and would scale to double the value of his base form at 217.14 Megatons

Hybrid Lucci's with Rokushiki would scale above Hybrid Kaku's Rodan & Yontoryu via his statement of being the strongest, he also cut through the underwater tunnel which Zoro with Goken failed to do, scaling him above 238.84 MT.

Hybrid Lucci's Rokushiki is capable of using double handed attacks like Shigan Madara and Rokougan and thus with these attacks would scale double his Hybrid Rokushiki value, scaling him to 477.68 MT.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Honestly I think Kaku's multiplier is even more silly, since it assumes that for some reason using more limbs or swords is a multiplier
Also before anyone comments I think Zoro having his x1.5 multiplier is silly too

 

[Damage3245]

Base Sanji was able to take Okami Hajiki with minimal damage, so Sanji scales to 118.34 megatons

How is taking an attack an AP feat?

 

[KingTempest]

I remember initially we had Asura & Gear 3rd as that's them at their strongest thus the statement of their strength being equal would cover them at their very strongest making no inconsistencies in statement.

From my knowledge the statement had no indications of this, and what we did was scale their regular combat forms to their regular combat forms and their strongest to their strongest.
With this as well we currently accept his base level of strength on that level

Mountain level (With Nitoryu, he matched Base Kaku's Rankyaku "Hakurai" with his 72 Pound Cannon, and fought equally with him for a long period of time. With Santoryu, he roughly fought on par with his Hybrid Form, even at some point managed to briefly overwhelmed him and redirect his attacks, Zoro should be roughly equal to Luffy),

On top of this, I recall the statement showing nothing of Asura and Gear 3rd being relative.

With this regardless it'd have Santoryu Zoro over Lucci. So I guess if you want that to work then ok

Honestly I think Kaku's multiplier is even more silly, since it assumes that for some reason using more limbs or swords is a multiplier
Also before anyone comments I think Zoro having his x1.5 multiplier is silly too

https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-combined-attacks.125403/

 

[Eseseso]

Because he's literally adding the momentum and power provided from his legs.

If other people support this than I'll agree.

What do you think, @KingTempest , about this multiplier?

Honestly I think Kaku's multiplier is even more silly, since it assumes that for some reason using more limbs or swords is a multiplier
Also before anyone comments I think Zoro having his x1.5 multiplier is silly too

https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-combined-attacks.125403/

Some stuff that can be added to the OP for Lucci:

Spoiler: Lucci Scaling

Base Lucci's Rokushiki matched Luffy's bazooka and would scale to double the value of his base form at 217.14 Megatons

Hybrid Lucci's with Rokushiki would scale above Hybrid Kaku's Rodan & Yontoryu via his statement of being the strongest, he also cut through the underwater tunnel which Zoro with Goken failed to do, scaling him above 238.84 MT.

Hybrid Lucci's Rokushiki is capable of using double handed attacks like Shigan Madara and Rokougan and thus with these attacks would scale double his Hybrid Rokushiki value, scaling him to 477.68 MT.

Agree

 

[Eseseso]

Also would Gear 3rd upscale to 7-A+ (550 megatons) for easily smashing and nearly one-shotting Lucci's Tekkai/Rokushiki?

 

[Damage3245]

Also would Gear 3rd upscale to 7-A+ (550 megatons) for easily smashing and nearly one-shotting Lucci's Tekkai/Rokushiki?

Why does everything have to be upscaled?

 

[Kachon123]

How is taking an attack an AP feat?

Okami Hajiki is a Tekkai based attack. Sanji was able to hurt Jabra despite him using Tekkai, so his AP should scale to his durability.

 

[KingTempest]

Hybrid Lucci's Rokushiki is capable of using double handed attacks like Shigan Madara and Rokougan and thus with these attacks would scale double his Hybrid Rokushiki value, scaling him to 477.68 MT.

Shigan Madara is not a double handed attack. It's akin to a gatling attack

And sorry but if this is only including Rokuogan then that's a load of bull. The technique primarily incorporates Dura neg.

Lucci's statement of superiority shouldn't be a "well his absolute strongest moves should be superior to their casual ones". Lucci is stated to be the strongest member in history. He is not scaling because of his strongest moves, when his regular moves alone were implied to be above every single strawhat.

If other people support this than I'll agree.

What do you think, @KingTempest , about this multiplier?

If they want the multiplier applied then here's my suggestion

1. Make sure base Kaku with his swords is inferior to base Lucci. And before I hear "Base Lucci uses 2 handed attacks too" no the hell he doesn't, except with like 1 special Rankakyu move
2. You guys are abusing it. Not every attack that incorporates more than 1 limb is a "combined attack". Tekkai Kenpo's 10 finger shit is not a 4x multiplier because it uses all his limbs. He doesn't use them to attack, he uses 3 of them to move.
3. I see your recent message. We're not upscaling his shit for this loose scaling.
4. Make sure those who are stated to be equal remain equal