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One Piece Discussion Thread Seventeen Fishman Island

(also although the context definitely matters in this fight and I'm not implying it's direct evidence for Zoro > G2 Luffy, but it does support the portrayal that Oda is building in the sense that based off the Hyouzou and P.H Dragon fights; Luffy struggled in his fight against Monet despite him using Gear Second, Yet Zoro would have taken Monet out with a single attack. Of course the context of these two fights are key I just thought it's interesting on a broader scale how they follow a certain trend of scaling)
 
Cin is right that the proposed scaling there is a bit sketchy.
 
Eminiteable said:
Hmm should Kid profile instead be: "Likely Mountain Level(Superior to his subordinate Killer), Possibly Large Mountain Level+(Injured one of Big Mom's Sweet Generals)" for similar reasons to Urogue.
Kidd epic
Click to expand...
Is pretty hard to know which sweet commander he would have injured. Cracker had said that he had not been forced to use his true form in combat for quite some time. Katakuri also claimed that he had not suffered an injury for a large period of time. The only ones Kid could have hurt would be Snack, Smoothie or Cracker's Soldier.
 
Already concluded it, I was under the impression it was irrelevant since all the sweet Commanders were being scaled to High 7-A(although this was wrong)
 
@Emi -

Regarding Zoro and Luffy:

I'm sure that Zoro is not weaker than Gear 2nd Luffy PERSONALLY (Which is irrelevant as that's a bias), however, the examples provided are not exactly evidence for Zoro =/> Gear 2nd Luffy.

Vs Hyouzou: Luffy does compliment him, and Hyou does take a jet pistol with seemingly no difficulty while also "accidentally" (his words) poisoning Luffy. However, it's pretty ridiculous to ascertain that he and Zoro should scale to Luffy based on this display. Luffy was not going in for the kill or anything, just trying to knock them out--and he did not expect Hyouzou to shrug it off. It's like saying Gladius is automatically Gear 2nd Luffy tier just because he got up after being sent flying from a very casual Jet Stamp.

  • As such, I'd only consider scaling Hyouzou to Luffy if he had actually fought him (shown to block attacks and tank at least a couple hits with minimal damage ofc) before suggesting this.
Vs Monet: Zoro and Luffy were not intent on killing Monet. Luffy was focusing on chasing Caesar, but Monet kept boxing him in with multiple walls of snow. Monet never takes a hit from Luffy, and their fight is concluded with Luffy falling down a hole. Neither of them actually connected a physical strike. Monet's just evidently inferior to Zoro, and she relied on nothing but shields to stall Luffy, and didn't even take a hit from him, let alone actually damage him.

  • Monet doesn't scale to them. Even her barriers would arguably NOT scale to Gear 2nd Luffy, as he could break them easily, and she just constantly piled layers onto it to ensure it wouldn't be broken through so easily--and Zoro also cut through them.
Vs the Dragon: Both Luffy and Zoro could hurt it, and as can be seen, the encounter appeared very trivial for Luffy, who treated the fight as a total joke up until the very end--especially when he believed it capable of talking.

  • Zoro asked Luffy if he could handle it (Yeah, Luffy hit it twice--one attack being in Gear 2nd, but again, I'm seriously doubting he was fighting it seriously). Can you really say Luffy was going all out with this display?
However, I will address something: Zoro should certainly be able Base Luffy no doubt. He's capable of fighting foes that actually manage to force Luffy into using Gear 2nd in the first place, but this doesn't mean they are EQUAL or even close to him.

For Monet, this really doesn't count.

For Hyouzou, this might actually count for his Overdosed state, as he should logically be at least comparable to Hody, as Luffy already regarded him as a "strong opponent" before he ever took the drug anyways.

For Fujitora, this doesn't count as previously discussed due to Fujitora being unwilling to do something favorable for Doflamingo, or take in the pirates that were actually kind to him (before Tsuru showed up and rolled the dice, at least lol).

Give me Zoro vs literally anyone who has gone into an actual fight with Gear 2nd Luffy and I'll be on board. The examples currently provided have either a) not taken a single hit from Luffy (Monet) or b) have only been seen surviving/withstanding a single/casual strike from Gear 2nd Luffy (Hyou/Dragon) or c) Have not been shown actually fighting seriously against Zoro to suggest Zoro is comparable to them (Fuji).
 
Also, for Kid, it's entirely possible he and Urouge teamed up to fight Snack. He makes it sound like he went to go take care of business.

So either there is a formal 5th Commander taken out before Snack, he teamed with Urouge to get sweet revenge against Snack, or he fought and defeated Smoothie/Fake Cracker.
 
"Luffy was not going for the kill against Hyouzou" Luffy has never gone for the kill against any opponent(maybe besides kaido but he's irrelevant) if you want to say Luffy wasn't serious against Hyouzou that would be another thing, and not true, they previously were saying that Sanji should be left to die and Luffy did take them seriously, the other two were knocked out and bloody and Hyouzou was unharmed at all, the key thing to note here is Luffy regarding him strong, that's what's important. Base Hyouzou would obviously be inferior to G2 Luffy, but by Luffy's words we can work out they're comparable, thus overdosed Hyouzou would be equal if not above.

Monet is irrelevant I brought them up in brackets as it seemed to follow the overall power scaling of G2 < Zoro trail, but I already said that.

"the entire dragon thing" Luffy after attacking the dragon with a jet bullet said this "Whoa, it's skin is really hard" the dragon sustained little damage from Luffy's attacks, Zoro said when clashing with it "What's up with its strength and toughness" both of them regard the dragon's body as tough and Zoro after experiencing it's strength saying lit being strong, yet Zoro cleanly cut its head off where Luffy was doing minor damage in comparison. Them having fun with the idea of dragon existing, it talking and eating said dragon doesn't mean they're now taking it relaxed, their words should be used to scale the danger of the opponent not our interpretation.

"Fujitora" That literally just means Fujitora isn't going to unleash a full force Ferocious Tiger or something of its likeness at Zoro to capture him, he restrained Zoro and yet was forced to block bring pushed back (similar to G3 Luffy) Fujitora blocking an attack =\= defeating the pirates that will result in something favourable for Doffy, this just means he had to block, he doesn't have to use a lesser amount of power level to block the attack to stay within in moral code(that's stupid) Zoro just performed a feat similar to G3.

This is enough evidence for Zoro > G2 Luffy.
 
How would you rate Devil Fruits in power ?

For me personally

1. Magu magu no mi (stated in the data book to be the most powerful devil fruit in existence)

2. Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Daibutsu (strongest mythic zoan, has all the powers of gura gura AND turns you into a friggin giant)

3. Yami Yami no Mi (massive destructive power, most evil devil fruit ever and negates other DFs)

4. Gura Gura no Mi (can destroy the world nuff said)

5. Kaido's fruit (mythic type, is the reason Kaido is so strong, quite versatile)

6. Pika pika no mi (very versatile, light speed travel and very destructive)

7. Hie hie no mi (allows you travel over water and falling into water isn't an auto loss, freezing is very useful, incredible destructive power, versatile)

8. Soru Soru no mi (Very versatile, gives you super strong teammates and weapons, great destructive power)

9. Zushi zushi no mi (meteors nuff said)

10. Tori tori no mi: Model phoenix (mythic type, great destructive power, regen is broken af, flight)
 
The Daibutsu fruit has been seen twice and those shockwaves aren't related with the Gura Gura at all. Crazy headcanon you got there.
 
Top 10 fruits imo:

1. Kizaru.

2. Enel

3. Kuzan

4. Caesar

5. Moria

6. Doffy

7. Marco

8. Teach

9. Croc boy

10. Akainu

I can explain why each rating.
 
Oh, yeah, Kuma's. If only we had seen him use it more.

I kinda forgot about him. He could be above Marco in my ranking.
 
I mean, the magu magu doesn't have anything going for it besides common logia power and destructiveness. And the niche "burning fire".
 
Mihawk has the best ability of all- swimming ! Though I guess The hie hie no mi doesn't really have that disadvantage either since you can just freeze the water.
 
And the Gasu Gasu allows Caesar to float on the water and never drown. And maybe, or maybe not, Goro Goro may allow Enel to travel through water.
 
Logias do seem to be the best option for dealing with water. Not counting that 1 non-canon DF that doesn't take away your ability to swim.
 
PaChi2 said:
I mean, the magu magu doesn't have anything going for it besides common logia power and destructiveness. And the niche "burning fire".
Click to expand...
then why do u have the goro goro so high then especially since we know magu magu is more destructive what else does enels fruit do
 
Electricity is more versatile in its applications than magma.

Im not talking only about fighting power here.
 
Yeah, to be fair, Goro Goro triumphs most Logias in versatility.

- Mera Mera? Fire.

- Magu Magu? Volcanoes, magma and a bit Dura Negation according to VC.

- Moku Moku? Shitty fruit.

- Numa Numa? BFR and Dimensional Storage-like powers.

- Hie Hie? Counter to water and frostbite.

- Suna Suna? Dry.

- Yuki Yuki? Cold, minor frostbite and sleep.

- Pika Pika? Light beams and speed.

- Gasu Gasu? Lots of applications. This one is probably the most versatile Logia fruit.

- Goro Goro? Electricity, paralysis, electromagnetic waves amplified via Haki, thunderstorms.
 
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