One Piece: About Kozuki Oden's Haki (Busoshoku/Ryou and Haoshoku).

[Unforgiven0815]

1.Shouldn't Oden's Busoshoku Haki/Ryou be at least considered as advanced? Roger's profile declares his Busoshoku to be advanced, Rayleigh's profile declares his Busoshoku to be advanced, Zoro's profile declares his Busoshoku to be advanced. Why is that? Oden is the Ryou master.
We know that Enma drains the Ryou of its User and Zoro's entire arm was drained dry after 1 slash with Enma.

Kinemon even said that he wouldn't accept Enma.

And Kinemon's profile declares his Busoshoku to be intermediate.

So Oden's profile having only "Intermediate Busoshoku" makes no sense. He wielded and tamed Enma and Ame no Habakiri with ease.

Post Rooftop Zoro's profile declares his Haoshoku and Busoshoku to be advanced...and this Zoro still has massive problems with just controlling Enma. Zoro had to use advanced Haoshoku Haki just to get Enma under control and he's in awe over how Oden was able to use Enma with ease.

Even after that, he said that he has to defeat King quickly or Enma will drain his life away.

Yeah, and now consider that Oden wielded Enma, alongside Ame no Habakiri, as if it's a toothpick. Not a single sign of any Haki problems.

I mean, ****, even NINE YEAR OLD Oden was wielding Enma and Ame no Habakiri with ease.

2.As for his Haoshoku Haki, doesn't that one SBS 100 statement confirm that he's capable of the infusion? Where Oda considers both, Roger's Kamusari, and Oden's Togen Shirataki (or Togen Totsuka) as Haoshoku Haki attacks, and we even saw lightning steaming off Oden's blades after he scarred Kaido. So if we combine that with Zoro (who has Haoshoku infusion) still having problems with controlling Enma, and Kaido's comment ("Only a handful of the very strongest can infuse things with Haoshoku Haki"), doesn't that confirm Oden's capability of the infusion, therefore, the advanced form of Haoshoku Haki?

 

[KingTempest]

Read this for the Haoshoku

https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-kozuki-odens-haoshoku-revision.135622/

Do you know what Advanced Busoshoku is?

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Read this for the Haoshoku

https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-kozuki-odens-haoshoku-revision.135622/

If this black/red-ish Haki that's also coming from his blades, is Ryou

, then what is this red/pink-ish lightning here?

That red/pink-ish Haki looks similiar to when Roger and WB used advanced Haoshoku Haki and clashed.

Do you know what Advanced Busoshoku is?

I'm just confused, when did Roger and Whitebeard use Advanced Busoshoku Haki? Did Roger use it with Kamusari? If so, when did Whitebeard use it?

 

[KingTempest]

If this black/red-ish Haki that's also coming from his blades, is Ryou

, then what is this red/pink-ish lightning here?

Haoshoku Infusion Haki is attached to the weapons.
These ones aren't.

So that can be regular Haoshoku haki, that can be impact lightning, but it isn't infusion

That red/pink-ish Haki looks similiar to when Roger and WB used advanced Haoshoku Haki and clashed.

I'm just confused, when did Roger and Whitebeard use Advanced Busoshoku Haki? Did Roger use it with Kamusari? If so, when did Whitebeard use it?

They used it in your last scan, when they were clashing without touching

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Haoshoku Infusion Haki is attached to the weapons.

The Haoshoku Haki is coming from his blades, so it's the infusion.

These ones aren't.

Then what about this?

Or this?

Is their use of Haoshoku Infusion Haki attached to their weapons in these panels?

So that can be regular Haoshoku haki, that can be impact lightning, but it isn't infusion

It's coming from his blades. That is what Haoshoku Infusion Haki is. There are many instances where someone used Haoshoku Haki Infusion and it wasn't exactly drawn as coming off their weapons, just nearby.

They used it in your last scan, when they were clashing without touching

That's Advanced Haoshoku Haki, not Advanced Busoshoku Haki, no?

 

[KingTempest]

The Haoshoku Haki is coming from his blades, so it's the infusion.

Then what about this?

Or this?

Is their use of Haoshoku Infusion Haki attached to their weapons in these panels?

It's coming from his blades. That is what Haoshoku Infusion Haki is. There are many instances where someone used Haoshoku Haki Infusion and it wasn't exactly drawn as coming off their weapons, just nearby.

Haoshoku Infusion is when the attacks come from their blades even before they attack.
Luffy didn't punch anything and the lightning is directly attached to his limbs.
Yamato and Kaidou had lightning directly attacked to their kanabos before they made contact

That's Advanced Haoshoku Haki, not Advanced Busoshoku Haki, no?

It's the combination of both

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Haoshoku Infusion is when the attacks come from their blades even before they attack.

Except that we didn't see Oden's swords right before he scarred Kaido so we have to by the panel where he scarred Kaido, where Haoshoku Haki is coming from his blades.

Luffy didn't punch anything and the lightning is directly attached to his limbs.

Not really, there is a gap between Luffy's fist and the lightning, which proves my point.

Yamato and Kaidou had lightning directly attacked to their kanabos before they made contact

The panels I showed was simply there to prove that not every instance where someone used the Haoshoku Infusion Haki, is potrayed in the right way.
There is a cap between Luffy's fist and the lightning.
Kaido and Yamato clashed and there was no lightning coming directly from their weapons.
Etc.

It's the combination of both

Which part is which? Like, is the red/pink-ish lightning the sign of advanced Busoshoku Haki? Because if so, Oden was shown to have it.

 

[KingTempest]

Except that we didn't see Oden's swords right before he scarred Kaido so we have to by the panel where he scarred Kaido, where Haoshoku Haki is coming from his blades.

So you can't use this point if we can't see it.

Not really, there is a gap between Luffy's fist and the lightning, which proves my point.

There is lightning coming from him prior to him landing an attack.

The panels I showed was simply there to prove that not every instance where someone used the Haoshoku Infusion Haki, is potrayed in the right way.
There is a cap between Luffy's fist and the lightning.
Kaido and Yamato clashed and there was no lightning coming directly from their weapons.
Etc.

There is lightning coming from their weapons prior to their clash.

You seem to misunderstand.

I'm not saying that it is glued to their bodies.
I'm saying it comes from their weapons.

It not the matter of it being attached to them. If I said that prior I spoke wrong.
The lightning comes from their limbs prior to them landing hits or after their hit is done and it's still trailing off of their weapons

Which part is which? Like, is the red/pink-ish lightning the sign of advanced Busoshoku Haki? Because if so, Oden was shown to have it.

Regarding the consistency of Lightning as an effect & it's color:
It's true that the consistency of lightning's color and what it indicates to regarding Haki etc can be inconsistent in the manga; for example Chinjao & Luffy's Hao clash was yellow lightning but in the same arc Doffy's and Luffy's Hao clash was Red&Black Lightning.

However the inconsistencies have more to do with when the colored volumes were released rather than them being inconsistent in general. The recent releases of volumes 96, 97 and 98 all came at the same time and thus are consistent (which we'll show).

Regarding the color of Busoshoku Haki usage which was brought up above, in the recent release of the volumes it's shown to be indicated by black & red lightning, the proof is the following:

• Ulti & Luffy's Busoshoku clash consistently produced black & red lightning sparks.
• Oden & Kaidou's Busoshoku clash produced black & red lightning sparks.
• The Scabbard's Tougen Totsuka produced black & red lightning.
• Roger's attack used on Oden produced black & red lightning.

Thus based on what we've seen it's more consistently shown that black & red lightning is an indicator of Busoshoku Haki usage in this set of volumes, and thus the Tougen Totsuka Oden used against Kaidou indicates Busoshoku Haki while a confirmed case of Haoshoku infusion between Roger and Whitebeard produced pure red lightning.

This is what I told you to read

 

[Unforgiven0815]

So you can't use this point if we can't see it.

We saw lightning coming from his blades after he used it. It's not my fault that Oda was very lazy with the potryal of the fight.

There is lightning coming from him prior to him landing an attack.

Because Oda cared enough to show it, while Oden vs Kaido lasted like 1 page and we only got that panel to go by.

There is lightning coming from their weapons prior to their clash.

There are panels to go by that aren't half-assed like Oden vs Kaido was.

You seem to misunderstand.

I'm not saying that it is glued to their bodies.
I'm saying it comes from their weapons.

I understood you correctly and the lightning that was shown here is coming from Enma and Ame no Habakiri.

It not the matter of it being attached to them. If I said that prior I spoke wrong.
The lightning comes from their limbs prior to them landing hits or after their hit is done and it's still trailing off of their weapons

Is that not what happend? I'm looking at the Yamato panels and then at the Oden one, and it's basically the same, the only difference is that Oda half-assed the Oden vs Kaido fight and put more detail into the Rooftop battle, so it was fleshed out more, but the lightning is in both instances, coming from their weapons.

This is what I told you to read

So black/red lightning=Busoshoku and pure red/pink lightning=Advanced Busoshoku? Oden produced that kind of lightning when he blasted Kaido's forces away.

 

[Eminiteable]

So black/red lightning=Busoshoku and pure red/pink lightning=Advanced Busoshoku? Oden produced that kind of lightning when he blasted Kaido's forces away.

That's not the same color, that pinkish lightning was also produced by the Scabbards. Pure red was produced in the Kaidou and Big Mom cloud split (direct indicator of Hao) and the no touchy clash between Roger and WB (direct indicator of Hao)

 

[Unforgiven0815]

That's not the same color, that pinkish lightning was also produced by the Scabbards. Pure red was produced in the Kaidou and Big Mom cloud split (direct indicator of Hao) and the no touchy clash between Roger and WB (direct indicator of Hao)

So which one is it? Like how many colors do we have? I though red/black lightning is Busoshoku and now red/pinkish lightning is Busoshoku as well? If the redish lightning is advanced Busoshoku

and red/black is basic Busoshoku

, then what's up with the red/pink-ish Busoshoku?

 

[Eminiteable]

So which one is it? Like how many colors do we have? I though red/black lightning is Busoshoku and now red/pinkish lightning is Busoshoku as well? If the redish lightning is advanced Busoshoku

and red/black is basic Busoshoku

, then what's up with the red/pink-ish Busoshoku?

The pure red one is proven to be hao infusion, as we see in the Roger/WB & Kaidou/BM clashes.

Black and red has been used by Luffy & Ulti, Kaidou & Oden, the Scabbards and Oden in that image and is pretty much confirmed to be an indicator of Buso usage.

I'm not sure what the pinkish one is, but considering the Scabbards used it during their Sunnachi moment I'm inclined to think it's not hao.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

The pure red one is proven to be hao infusion, as we see in the Roger/WB & Kaidou/BM clashes.

I thought it's advanced Buso? If the pure red one is Hao Infusion, what makes it advanced Buso?

Black and red has been used by Luffy & Ulti, Kaidou & Oden, the Scabbards and Oden in that image and is pretty much confirmed to be an indicator of Buso usage.

The moment where Oden scarred Kaido was the only instance where the lightning was also coming from his blades though. Like. I'm looking at the Togen Totsuka version from the Scabbards and the lightning is only coming from the wound they inflected in that scene, and the same goes for Oden&Kaido, it's just the surroundings when they clashed, while with Oden's Togen Totsuka, there was lightning coming from his blades.

I'm not sure what the pinkish one is, but considering the Scabbards used it during their Sunnachi moment I'm inclined to think it's not hao.

You mean this?

Because the color of that lightning looks different compared to the lightning that was produced when Oden blasted through Kaido's army.

We got: Oden's scarring Kaido->red/black lightning is coming from the wound and Oden's swords.
Roger and WB clash->pure red lightning.
Oden blasts through Kaido's army->red/pink-ish lightning.
Scabbards Sunacchi moment->purple lightning.

 

[Eminiteable]

I thought it's advanced Buso? If the pure red one is Hao Infusion, what makes it advanced Buso?

Them not touching is what makes it advanced buso, the non touching blow that Luffy learned during Udon. Red lightning is the Hao infusion.

The moment where Oden scarred Kaido was the only instance where the lightning was also coming from his blades though. Like. I'm looking at the Togen Totsuka version from the Scabbards and the lightning is only coming from the wound they inflected in that scene, and the same goes for Oden&Kaido, it's just the surroundings when they clashed, while with Oden's Togen Totsuka, there was lightning coming from his blades.

Red & Black lightning is consistently shown to be Buso usage.

Because the color of that lightning looks different compared to the lightning that was produced when Oden blasted through Kaido's army.

Nope it looks like the Oden one.

We got: Oden's scarring Kaido->red/black lightning is coming from the wound and Oden's swords.
Roger and WB clash->pure red lightning.
Oden blasts through Kaido's army->red/pink-ish lightning.
Scabbards Sunacchi moment->purple lightning.

I already explain all the versions of lightning above, Oden's is not an example of Hao infusion.

The lightning "trailing off his weapon" also shows no resemblance to other confirmed hao infusion users with weapons.

 

[Ryuga21]

Iirc, Kaido says that the Scabbards' Haki was the same as Oden's Busoshoku.

 

[KingTempest]

Dude

If lightning is not coming from the weapons before they attack someone or still trailing from their weapons after, then it isn't infusion