On the Naruto god tiers Downgrade.

[Ruthlessleader]

I would like to know why the previous ratings of planet level to small planet level for the characters has been removed. There are calcs that put them at small planet level. This also ignores the lore of kaguya creating her dimensions each of which are at least planet sized with some having moons in them.

 

[YungManzi]

Something about timeframes not being quantifiable in most of the calcs or something. Resulting in them being reworked to the base lowball.

Other calc like madara spreading the shinju tree being uncalcable.

There are other things too iirc.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

But a timeframe that was quantifiable in the calc I gave was given. And the Shinju tree calcs are uncalcable why? Don't we just have to find the kinetic energy needed for tree roots to break through the earth and just give a timeframe for it that is appropriate?


Honestly, it feels like Naruto is put to a lot more standards than other verses on this site and more.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Here we go.

 

[The_Calaca]

Again.

 

[Damage3245]

Try listening to the One Piece fans before complaining that Naruto is treated too strictly. /s

We also already have an accepted Moon level calc for the feat you've linked. The current calc seems fine to me.

 

[The_Calaca]

You mad ma

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Everyone please calm down! I'm gonna be doing a Naruto Revision after I finish my blog regarding to Dragon Ball Super manga character power-scaling!


By the way, manga Ten-Tails solos VSBW's Naruto verse.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

what in the world lol

 

[Ruthlessleader]

Try listening to the One Piece fans before complaining that Naruto is treated too strictly. /s
We also already have an accepted Moon level calc for the feat you've linked. The current calc seems fine to me.

The current calc assumes that you only need to exert a few petatons of energy to get the moon moving at all, let alone for an hour. Which is wrong since to stop it completely you would need 9 exatons of energy as per the calc in the op post says. And since naruto's moon stops falling to the earth whenever the chakra moving it is affected, it would be logical to assume that toneri is constantly applying the same force.

I'm also ignoring the fact it actually takes about one second for the moon to split apart. The 4.48 seconds is based on 3 or so seconds of suspense before the moon suddenly splits apart, this is a common thing in most media. And about the 14.5% hollowness, is there any reason to assume that the otsutsuki didn't just spread the moon's mass over the surface of the moon.

You've also ignored my questions about the lore of kaguya creating her dimensions which would make her at least planet level and would make Hagoromo, Hamura and Naruto scale to her since he was able to fight on her level.

 

[LucyyXNyuXHana]

Try listening to the One Piece fans before complaining that Naruto is treated too strictly. /s
We also already have an accepted Moon level calc for the feat you've linked. The current calc seems fine to me.

The current calc assumes that you only need to exert a few petatons of energy to get the moon moving at all, let alone for an hour. Which is wrong since to stop it completely you would need 9 exatons of energy as per the calc in the op post says. And since naruto's moon stops falling to the earth whenever the chakra moving it is affected, it would be logical to assume that toneri is constantly applying the same force.
I'm also ignoring the fact it actually takes about one second for the moon to split apart. The 4.48 seconds is based on 3 or so seconds of suspense before the moon suddenly splits apart, this is a common thing in most media. And about the 14.5% hollowness, is there any reason to assume that the otsutsuki didn't just spread the moon's mass over the surface of the moon.

You've also ignored my questions about the lore of kaguya creating her dimensions which would make her at least planet level and would make Hagoromo, Hamura and Naruto scale to her since he was able to fight on her level.

"You've also ignored my questions about the lore of kaguya creating her dimensions which would make her at least planet level and would make Hagoromo, Hamura and Naruto scale to her since he was able to fight on her level."

This alone makes this downgrade parade invalid. We've already discussed many times over that the chakra one holds equates to larger amounts of power. w/ Kaguya being seen as physically stronger than Naruto & Sasuke; for Naruto to keep his own in clashing with her multiple times shows there can't be that large of a gap with their power

 

[Damage3245]

Pretty sure both Naruto and Sasuke were overpowered by Kaguya both times they tried to take her on alone.

Also, please don't quote large posts.

 

[YungManzi]

Neither of them were ever even remotely stomped physically, as someone who is far below her should be.

 

[Damage3245]

Well just going by the current scaling on the profiles at least, she is not massively above them in terms of actual AP value.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

Pretty sure both Naruto and Sasuke were overpowered by Kaguya both times they tried to take her on alone.
Also, please don't quote large posts.

No, Naruto overpowered her multiple times as well. He cut off her arm, was able to use steam release to overwhelm her eighty gods vacuum fist and was able to momentarily match her vacuum fists before eventually getting overwhelmed. The only one who was overwhelmed was sasuke.

Naruto's chakra attacks were even able to destabilise kaguya's form and make her mutate.

And again, you are ignoring my calc that puts toneri at small planet level and my point that the moon cutting would actually take one second due to it's sudden splitting after 4 seconds instead of it gradually splitting.

 

[MostPowerfull]

Most feats, especially Naruto and Sasuke's, would be fine with 1 minute of timeframe. Except for Hagoromo's feat of raising the moon in the sky, which the context indicates to be fast, but...

But, with Naruto being an example, as famous as it is ... I hope we review any absurd timeframe of 1, 3, 10 seconds and so on, that many calculations have.

 

[Damage3245]

@Ruthlessleader; do you have proof that the Moon completely ground to a halt before it started moving towards the planet?

@MostPowerfull; if there are any calcs with absurd timeframes, then they should definitely be carefully reviewed.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

@Ruthlessleader; do you have proof that the Moon completely ground to a halt before it started moving towards the planet?

The fact that the physics of moving the moon inwards say so is enough proof. There is only one other method of moving the moon and that one still uses 96% of the energy required to halt it. Everything results to small planet level since whenever Toneri or the Tenseigan vessel are stopped, the moon stops moving, so they have to constantly be outputting the same amount of energy every second.

 

[Damage3245]

@Ruthlessleader; that method doesn't get you their AP either way. You don't multiply Kinetic Energy feats by the amount of time they take.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

@Ruthlessleader; that method doesn't get you their AP either way. You don't multiply Kinetic Energy feats by the amount of time they take.

What? That's literally what is done for Toneri in the calc that is linked to his page. They use the kinetic energy and take the total amount of time. And it was accepted twice. Both from the first time and from the downgrade. You even link it in the staff only god tiers Downgrade thread. Did you not notice this rule before?

 

[Damage3245]

@Ruthlessleader; I believe you're mistaken, here is where the calc gets the Kinetic Energy:

> KE = 1/2 * 6.281327653 e22 kg * (5152.208975 m/sec)^2 = 8.336972943 e29 J

They aren't multiplying the result by the timeframe.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Hey, what happened to my comment? Really? I took an entire sweet hours to write down my debunk to Damage3245's thread, yet it wasn't posted when I hit the reply button?! Wow! Looks like I have to write all that shit all over again!

 

[The_Calaca]

You shouldn't have reload the page. You could've recovered it using Ctrl+Z after reopening the text box after it got deleted.

 

[ToppoStyle1]

It's almost 2020 and people still dont believe in lightspeed naruto. Hope this doesnt become a rerun of 2015

 

[Ruthlessleader]

@Ruthlessleader; I believe you're mistaken, here is where the calc gets the Kinetic Energy:
> KE = 1/2 * 6.281327653 e22 kg * (5152.208975 m/sec)^2 = 8.336972943 e29 J

They aren't multiplying the result by the timeframe.

And if they did, the resulting AP would be 656 zettatons of energy which is far higher than my result. I still advocate using my calc since the problem with the old one was in earth's size which mine doesn't rely on so as to cause less arguments.

The reason why I multiply everything with the total timeframe is because of the Chakra Modes.

In the series, it's been shown that chakra modes have a total store of energy in them e.g. Sage mode having three rasenshuriken's worth of energy before running out and disappearing.

And it's also been shown that using too much chakra that your mode doesn't have access to will cause it to dissipate like when KCM naruto tries to perform the bijuudama.

We also know that if a character is hit by an attack that is equal to or greater than their mode's energy, they will be knocked out of it immediately. Example being KCM Naruto losing his cloak after tenpenchii and BSM Naruto losing his cloak and construct after juubito slams him into the ground and Jigen kicking Naruto out of his SPSM cloak.

And we know that characters in this series can concentrate the power of their chakra mode into one attack, e.g Naruto concentrating his BSM into one fist to knock to Toneri out of his TCM, and Toneri absorbing Naruto's entire chakra cloak to blast the earth with it. Or just straight up charge their normal attacks so long as their modes don't run out.

All this points to my point that TCM Toneri and Naruto should be at least small planet level with my calc or planet level using the other one since toneri's cloak never dissipates while doing this and Naruto has to concentrate his entire chakra mode in one attack to beat him. It would also be somewhat consistent with the character lore and statements of kaguya's creating her dimensions and Naruto being able to fight and harm her.

 

[The_Popular_Loser]

I would advise on everyone who disagrees with the CRT just to wait until it is finished. I am currently working on a CRT atm, almost finished. Most of the CRT is honestly weak arguements and misinterpretations. Only a portion of it is actually debate worthy.

Nonetheless again just wait on the CRT to be finished because you are more likely to be reported for doing something down the line than actually getting something changed.

 

[SsjKale100]

How the hell are Ichigo n a Saibamen planet level but Naruto god tiers not lol

 

[Damage3245]

How the hell are Ichigo n a Saibamen planet level but Naruto god tiers not lol

If you think there is a problem with those characters ratings, you are free to make a CRT to address them.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Completely different franchises, Bleach has more accurate reasons to be 5-B in comparison to Naruto.

 

[The_Popular_Loser]

Absorbing two people then everyone scaling to him and him picking up a city > Hurling Moons, Slicing both moons and planets, Making dimensions, Hurling meteorites,

Huh....

 

[SsjKale100]

Completely different franchises, Bleach has more accurate reasons to be 5-B in comparison to Naruto.

No Naruto actually have statements to back up tiers Bleach doesn't. Also Ywach is just a full in for soup king he wasn't gonna destroy all 3 worlds he was gonna merge all 3 realities and that isn't planet level. Hell Ichigo sliced him with help and second time Ywach Power was completely nerfed before Ichigo sliced and killed him. Ichigo couldn't even keep up with Ywach at first but orihime who could react to Ywach before his sword hit Ichigo could. And her shield blocked ywach's Sword lol does she have Planet Level durability and Relavistic reactions ? Bleach has way less feats than EOS Naruto god tiers

Just seems like a lot of people have hate boners for Naruto why not debunk Bleach it's forgotten and has been over for years anyway leave my Naruto alone dude is planet level get over yourselves And Kep png isn't commenting to fix this crap cus he doesn't care for Naruto too much just like the other staff members on here there aren't a lot of Naruto fans that are staff members mostly Bleach n DBZ dudes

 

[Damage3245]

This isn't the place to argue about Bleach.

 

[Peter1129]

ÕñºÕ£░ (Daichi) is not the planet Earth that's just earth as in the land. Õ£░þÉâ (Chikyu) is the planet Earth. The magazine is only saying the Tailed Beast Bomb could blow away the land.

 

[The_Calaca]

Stop the ad hominem.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@SsjKale Do not try to start drama between Naruto and Bleach. First of all, google translate is not a reliable source as it's heavily infamous for cheaply efforted translations. And it doesn't really distinct the fact that different languages have different standards in sentence structure, definitions, and they view different words has hyperboles than other languages do. Google translate assumes Hoshi means star for instance, but in reality just means celestial object. That's why it's better for one of our Multilingual Members List take care of translations.

Second, if you have problems with Bleach profiles, you may make another thread for that. But you should be more polite and also avoid trying to cause drama between verses. As well as consider the revisions not being accepted. Damage has also disagreed with Bleach statistics in the past, so he isn't biased between verses he just wants to see legitimacy and accuracy. But again, this is not the thread to talk about stuff like that.

Third, it's not right to accuse people of "hate boners." Damage is just trying to make sure the statistics are accurate which includes accurate context and translations. While it might be possible for Naruto to receive upgrades in the future, it should be reserved for later and/or bring up new feats. Please do not be hostile to other users in the future, thank you.

 

[SsjKale100]

ÕñºÕ£░ (Daichi) is not the planet Earth that's just earth as in the land. Õ£░þÉâ (Chikyu) is the planet Earth. The magazine is only saying the Tailed Beast Bomb could blow away the land.

No they mean the planet. Naruto's TBB could up the land in BM against Obito as a teen why would they mean the land it says Earth in google translation.

ÒüìÒéçÒüáÒüäÕÀ¿ÕñºÒü¬Õ░¥þìúÒü½ÒéêÒéïÕ┐൫║Õ┐ìÞíô´╝üÒüØÒü«Õ¿üÕèøÒüºÕñºÕ£░ÒüÖÒéëÕÉ╣ÒüìÚúøÒü░ÒüÖÒÇéÒü│ÒüÿÒéàÒü▓ÒüúÒüòÒüñÒü½ÒéôÒüÿÒéàÒüñÒüäÒéèÒéçÒüÅÒüáÒüäÒüíÕçØþ©«ÒüùÒüƒÒâüÒâúÒé»Òâ®ÒéƵö¥Õç║þÜä

A deadly ninjutsu with a huge tail beast! Even the EARTH is blown away with its power. Bijyuhisatsu jinjutsu rikuichi condensed

Even the EARTH I doubt they would say "even the labs" is blown away that doesn't make sense since most TBB blow ssst the land from random Biju they are specifically talking about the earth as they are saying Hokage Naruto Power is so great even the earth can be blown away by its power. The land is something Naruto has destroyed even as s teen in four tails form. Just common sense to use the ladder of earth.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

Can we at least address these points:

Kaguya's creating her planet to large planet sized dimensions.

Hagoromo and Hamura defeating and sealing her

Naruto being able to put up a fight against her and deal major damage to her. And he and sasuke sealing her away again.

Toneri being small planet level or planet level based on my previous post and the explanations within it.

These are only a few in a long list of statements and calcs that put the god tiers at planet level. I've seen verses where characters with zero feats of being at a certain level(just statements) are continental level.

 

[Damage3245]

@Ruthlessleader; regarding Kaguya, we don't have any timeframe or method for how exactly these dimensions were made.

 

[SsjKale100]

I agree Kaguya worlds R created by her prime self which is same version the bro's fought. One of these planets even have a large amount of gravity. Also Sasuke in sand planet was sweating and had to cover his eyes from The beams of sunlight, so there is also a sun star in Kaguya space dimension, the sand planet was probably closest to the Star Kaguya made. Prime Kaguya should be Planet Level for creating multiple planets without shinobi army boost. Hagoromo should scale to Prime Kaguya for fighting her for a prolonged battle All of this just resonate with god tiers being planet level not moon level almost all god tiers are in same category. Some of god tiers are much weaker than others. Like Teen Naruto is moon+ but Hagoromo is also the same thing despite being at least 2 times stronger for giving both him and Sasuke both halves of his power.

For example It's same problem with DBZ on vsbattle. Raditz and Recoome are both planet level on here and in same tier despite the massive difference in power between the two.

 

[Omimi]

Kaguya's creating dimensions is tier-4 with ETSB so its fine