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Omnipresence

I also agree with DarkLK. Ven basically taught me everything I know, the rest I got from friends over at ACF. I could talk about this with them for hours. DarkLK, Ven, and myself follow what is most commonly unified in the context of various fictional verses. We go by what is commonly practiced. Omnipresence/Ubiquity is not simply "be everywhere at once". That is as simple as the "having great power" definition of omnipotence. Again, this is how Ven explained it to me a few years ago. So, if this wiki's definition for whatever reason is technically our definition of pseudo-omnipresence, then that's fine. No use dragging this out any further.

I will say however, that claims have been made regarding how an omnipresent being can have slow reactions, Ven and I kindly asked for examples and never got any. Basically, it's just hypotheticals and technicalities. I personally and strongly believe we should go by examples within fiction and only use hypoyehtical examples and get technical when absolutely necessary (like we had to with the Omniverse term due to the sheer nonsensical nature behid its definitons). But I rest my case, I can't keep arguing this forever.

So, LordXcano kindly reworded DontTalk's suggestion for the omnipresent page. I like it, it's easy to read, if you're all okay with using it on the Speed page, go right ahead.
 
I really did not mean for this thread to turn into a huge philosophical debate. I just thought that omnipresence should not be listed as a speed, rather their speed is listed as a result of the omnipresence (e.g. 4-D psuedo-omnipresence granting immeasurable speed) and omnipresence should just be a power
 
@Sera

Okay. Thank you for being reasonable.

I think that DontTalk intended the text to be used in the Omnipresence page, but am also fine with adding it as a footnote in the Speed page if you think that is more appropriate.

However, Matthew does have a point in that we should probably improve on the explanations in our Omnipotence and Omnipresence pages. Do you have suggestions regarding how to properly expand upon the pages based on DarkLK's explanation?
 
My thing is, too many threads like this have been made by non-staff regarding "high tier/abstract/metaphysical" concepts, stuff I read about in Japanese novels on a daily basis, yet when I explain something from the perspective of experience with these concepts, I get argued down to death by what simply sounds more logically correct but is not how that concept is coherently treated in fiction. That has happened to me on at least four to five threads now and doesn't make me feel good, it makes me feel like an idiot. The worst one was about "Nonexistence Erasure". Unlike eveyone else in that thread I gave examples of how it could be done using fictional verses I know. However I kept hearing the same thing, "it doesn't make sense" and so forth.

@Sera and Tsubaki

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@All

That's my final say here. Do as you please and hopefully settle this in a civil manner. I'm not arguing this for another 12 hours, thete's no right or wrong because it's all relative anyway. I will say however that we can focus on our omnipotence and omniscience pages at another time. There's more important things going on right now.
 
Antvasima said:
Do you have suggestions regarding how to properly expand upon the pages based on DarkLK's explanation?
Click to expand...

"In fiction characters can only be presumed omnipotent, as much like in theology it is impossible to prove."

Well, this thing is definitely not what I meant. Philosophical and theological concepts do not need proofs, first of all, that it is simply a concepts. But we need proofs that we can not get. This is the main problem.
 
Sera Loveheart said:
Ven basically taught me everything I know, the rest I got from friends over at ACF. I could talk about this with them for hours.
Click to expand...
What kind of friends are you talking about?
 
Well, regarding omnipotence there's two definitions. The scholastic definition and the illogical definition. Scholastic definition says an omnipotent can do whatever they want in regards to what is possible whereas the illogical definition says an omnipotent can do whatever it wants regardless if it is possible, or impossible. Kevyn Souza made a briliant blog on this as Matthew linked earlier.

DarkLK is saying that the theological definition of omnipotence, which leans closer to our concept of boundlessness, cannot be proven by feats. Being "omniversal" isn't enough to be omnipotent. Being "infinitely above infinite outerversal beings" is not enough to be omnipotent, "creating all of existence with a thought and embodying all of existence" is not enough to be omnipotent. That is basically what he means.

As for Ventus, Ven explains it that omnipotence is not the same as the concept Tier 0s use, which is "boundlessness" . Omnipotence is immense power in relation to a scale. Marie would be omnipotent, where it not for the existence of other Hadou Gods for example. Boundlessness and Omnipotence are not the same. God is omnipotent but is personal but From the Good is boundless and impersonal. F.H Bradley's Omnipotence is an omniscient conscious experience whereas Brand Blanshard's Absolute is an unconscious, intelligible system. Ven also states that while these concepts differ, they are fundamnetally the same. Omnipotence is supremacy in power equalling an absolute whereas the undifferentiated Absolute has no limitations, regardless if it lacks omniscience (i.e is unconscious) because in the full depth of their reality, they are literally boundless. No need for bulky descritpions, transcendence, multiplication by infinity, superiority over logic, feats, or otherwise.

Basically, I'd combine these three explanations together for the full explanation (using examples already on the omnipotence page).
 
Yes and because of the external internet's obsession with the term, it is best we never subscribe to using it with the silly definition of "do absolutely anything whatsoever".
 
@Sera Okay. I would personally be fine with if you rework the Omnipotence page in this manner, if DarkLK thinks that it is acceptable.

@Kevyn Souza Would you be okay with if Sera uses the material within your blog post as a partial template for our Omnipotence page?

@All So, should we insert the LordXcano/DontTalk text segment into the Speed or Omnipresence page?
 
Before she joined this wiki she was an anon (A Fandom User) on some Korean wiki and on the Russian ACF asking questions, that's all.
 
So, what do you think about my last post?
 
I'm fine with Xcano's rework of DT's explanation. It can be posted.
 
Okay. I will post the text as a footnote in the Speed page.

Sera, are you interested in reworking the Omnipotence page, based on DarkLK's explanation, the previous text, your own knowledge, and Kevyn Souza's blog post (in case he finds this acceptable)?
 
Okay. Thank you very much for the help.
 
I would appreciate if DarkLK would be willing to check through the page afterwards, to make sure that it conforms to his standards.
 
Antvasima said:
Would you be okay with if Sera uses the material within your blog post as a partial template for our Omnipotence page?
Click to expand...
The ideal would be to wait until I finish it before, so far it only supported the scholastic definition and I practically didn't talk about illogical omnipotence. There is a huge basis behind this, which needs to be addressed.
 
Okay. Thank you for the help. You can tell Sera when you are done, and then she can tell me when she has written a draft.
 
Okay. Thank you very much for the help.
 
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