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Is anybody willing to rework DontTalk's suggested text section for improved flow and grammar? I usually handle it myself, but my head is increasingly fried from distractions, worry, and overwork.
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Omnipresence
- Thread starter Monarch_Laciel
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- Tags
- omnipotence omnipresence speed
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Oh. I see it now.
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I am kinda late to all of this. But omnipresence is not speed, it is a state of being. Now you can be present everywhere, but your reactions might be slow as well.
And omnipresence also varies- like 1-spatial dimensional omnipresence is clearly inferior to 3-spatial dimensional omnipresence.
And omnipresence also varies- like 1-spatial dimensional omnipresence is clearly inferior to 3-spatial dimensional omnipresence.
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@Ant
"While Omnipresence is, strictly speaking, not speed, it is listed as a speed statistic due to behaving in combat similarly to how normal speed would. For example, a being that is omnipresent within 3-D space would win every race against an opponent with normal speed, due to already being at the goal by the time the race starts. In addition, an attack from an omnipresent being is unavoidable with normal speed due to the attack being in every location in the universe at once.
A being that is not only omnipresent throughout space, but also time, would also be able to react to every attack from a being with normal speed before the opponent would even begin to throw the attack. This is the case because such a being would exist throughout all of time, experiencing past, presence and future at once while not being bound to the normal flow of time."
"While Omnipresence is, strictly speaking, not speed, it is listed as a speed statistic due to behaving in combat similarly to how normal speed would. For example, a being that is omnipresent within 3-D space would win every race against an opponent with normal speed, due to already being at the goal by the time the race starts. In addition, an attack from an omnipresent being is unavoidable with normal speed due to the attack being in every location in the universe at once.
A being that is not only omnipresent throughout space, but also time, would also be able to react to every attack from a being with normal speed before the opponent would even begin to throw the attack. This is the case because such a being would exist throughout all of time, experiencing past, presence and future at once while not being bound to the normal flow of time."
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A being omnipresent in time would almost be like immeasureable in speed terms.
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@TLT1
No, if you are Omnipresent spatially your reactions absolutely can't be slow like say, the reactions of a human.
No, if you are Omnipresent spatially your reactions absolutely can't be slow like say, the reactions of a human.
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An omnipresent....can be slow...in reactions...(no).
You know, that's way too technical. Perhaps to a degree it's overthinking. You are completely ignoring the other attributes of being omnipresent. Only pseudo-omnipresence is "everywhere at once.". So all that you're saying only applies to beings that aren't generally omnipresent.
You know, that's way too technical. Perhaps to a degree it's overthinking. You are completely ignoring the other attributes of being omnipresent. Only pseudo-omnipresence is "everywhere at once.". So all that you're saying only applies to beings that aren't generally omnipresent.
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Sera is correct.
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The comparison to a virus within a human body (with the body being the omnipresent) is flawed. The body does not have full control over itself. A true omnipresent being has full control of the domain of which it is omnipresent in. Speed is not a factor. You can immeasurable speed but if your range is within that of the omnipresent you can't do anything to them. However, if you possess greater range than the influence, scope, and scale of the omnipresent being then it's a different story. In short, omnipresence is simply relative to domain. It depends if it's pseudo-omnipresent, omnipresent in relation to a certain domain, or fully omnipresent (the highest classification of any possible "speed").
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Well, as far as we only speak about omnipresence as being everywhere at once (which is sufficient to qualify for our wiki as far as I am aware) an omnipresent being can have slow reaction time. There is nothing that speaks against that being possible. So in that regards I have to agree with TLT1.
If you expand the definition to what it means for certain religions or to something like nothing in its realm can happen without its consent (which are both not required per default nor an implication that necessary follows from the basic requirement of being everywhere at once) then it might not be possible, but those are cases more special than the basic requirement.
If you expand the definition to what it means for certain religions or to something like nothing in its realm can happen without its consent (which are both not required per default nor an implication that necessary follows from the basic requirement of being everywhere at once) then it might not be possible, but those are cases more special than the basic requirement.
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No, it's completely impossible. If you are Omnipresent you are everywhere at once and you perceive everywhere at once. The perceptions are equally enhanced. It's only a Pseudo-Omnipresent that can have "slow" reaction times despite being in multiple places at once.
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But in relation to fiction, those who are simply everywhere at once aren't fully omnipresent. At least, that's how I was told way back when. But if the definition here is just different, or we accept being everywhere at once as the basic requirement for omnipresence than I can't argue since we technically agree but we're using two different standards.
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For omnipresence, and omnipresence alone, it is like a generalized version of the concept of existing at multiple places at once. In this, case, it means being present at all parts of a specific region, it could be a line or a plane or a volume or a universe or beyond. But that alone does not on its own make reaction times null or immediately fast. Keep in mind that I am only talking about spatial omnipresence in certain mathematical maps and parameters.
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A few problems- omnipresence itself alone means being present in a given region. Having control and all that are additional and separate abilities that are not automatically granted from omnipresence (though it is true that region control is an ability that several omnipresent beings in fiction have, but that doesnt mean that it directly stems from omnipresence itself).Tsubaki Blue said:
Also, if a being is only spatially omnipresent, then an immeasureable speed character could out-do them in their own domain.
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@TLT1
Once again, you are not talking about full Omnipresence, and you don't seem to realize that reactions and perceptions comes from the speed with each you process surrounding information, and if a large-scale omnipresent didn't have enhanced reactions he wouldn't be able to comprehend his own omnipresent.
If you are Omnipresent across a universe, you perceive the entire universe simultaneously. Your reactions do increase with Omnipresence.
Once again, you are not talking about full Omnipresence, and you don't seem to realize that reactions and perceptions comes from the speed with each you process surrounding information, and if a large-scale omnipresent didn't have enhanced reactions he wouldn't be able to comprehend his own omnipresent.
If you are Omnipresent across a universe, you perceive the entire universe simultaneously. Your reactions do increase with Omnipresence.
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That really only means the character wasn't omnipresent to begin with...
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@Matthew: Being able to percieve everywhere at once does not imply fast reactions. Imagine for example a 2-D universe, with the size of just a 1 m^2 square. You could percieve everywhere in that universe at once by looking down at it, but are not necessarily capable to react to whats going on in the square to prevent it.
(to make this clear I am not saying that you are omnipresent in the example, I am only trying to point out that percieving everything Ôëá reacting to everything in time)
Full comprehension of everything that goes on in the space you are omnipresent in isn't really something an omnipresent being needs to have either, per the basic definition that is just "being everywhere at once".
(to make this clear I am not saying that you are omnipresent in the example, I am only trying to point out that percieving everything Ôëá reacting to everything in time)
Full comprehension of everything that goes on in the space you are omnipresent in isn't really something an omnipresent being needs to have either, per the basic definition that is just "being everywhere at once".
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@DontTalk
... Your comparisons once again aren't talking about real Omnipresence, neither in the tiny 2D universe nor the Omnipresence without Comprehension.
You keep talking about Pseudo-Omnipresence.
... Your comparisons once again aren't talking about real Omnipresence, neither in the tiny 2D universe nor the Omnipresence without Comprehension.
You keep talking about Pseudo-Omnipresence.
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Classifications of Omnipresence
1) Psuedo-Omnipresence - ability to be everywhere at once within a given domain, but with limited by lack of complete ubiquity and influence over the given area.
2) Omnipresence on a limited scale / local omnipresence - present at the same time in all areas under the control of the user. This includes makers of personal worlds of varying complexity (in which. you have full authority within your creation), dimensional measurements, conceptual and informational nature (within their own concepts), etc.
3) Full Omnipresence - fully omnipresence all throughout the setting. Everywhere and nowhere, within all beings, whereas nothing can escape it's influence.
Roughly that's the idea.
1) Psuedo-Omnipresence - ability to be everywhere at once within a given domain, but with limited by lack of complete ubiquity and influence over the given area.
2) Omnipresence on a limited scale / local omnipresence - present at the same time in all areas under the control of the user. This includes makers of personal worlds of varying complexity (in which. you have full authority within your creation), dimensional measurements, conceptual and informational nature (within their own concepts), etc.
3) Full Omnipresence - fully omnipresence all throughout the setting. Everywhere and nowhere, within all beings, whereas nothing can escape it's influence.
Roughly that's the idea.
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All fiction I read treat omnipresence this way.
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Fine.
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@Kevyn
I'm open for your suggestions y'know.
I'm open for your suggestions y'know.
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Psuedo-Omnipresence - ability to be everywhere at once within a given domain, but with limited by lack of complete ubiquity and influence over the given area.
This should be the literal defintion of what Omnipresence is not pseudo. As being Omnipresence mean you are able to appear everywhere at once within the 3-D universe or any given domain really. Like @TLT said above, having control over a region or domain is not a requirement or perk of omnipresence, in fact having control over a domain and being everywhere at once as well is more akin to being high scaled reality warping/domain manipulation rather than former.
2) Omnipresence on a limited scale / local omnipresence - present at the same time in all areas under the control of the user. This includes makers of personal worlds of varying complexity (in which. you have full authority within your creation), dimensional measurements, conceptual and informational nature (within their own concepts), etc.
Again sounds like a very high degree of Reality Warping and other abilities like matter manipuation and etc etc rather than normal omnipresence. Being everywhere at once does not mean you have control over everything.
3) Full Omnipresence - fully omnipresence all throughout the setting. Everywhere and nowhere, within all beings, whereas nothing can escape it's influence.
This is Omnipresence plus many other things like Higher dimensional manipuation,physics manipulation, acasualty,etc etc.
However overall the defintion of full omnipresence is actually what you defined as pseudo omnipresence.
This should be the literal defintion of what Omnipresence is not pseudo. As being Omnipresence mean you are able to appear everywhere at once within the 3-D universe or any given domain really. Like @TLT said above, having control over a region or domain is not a requirement or perk of omnipresence, in fact having control over a domain and being everywhere at once as well is more akin to being high scaled reality warping/domain manipulation rather than former.
2) Omnipresence on a limited scale / local omnipresence - present at the same time in all areas under the control of the user. This includes makers of personal worlds of varying complexity (in which. you have full authority within your creation), dimensional measurements, conceptual and informational nature (within their own concepts), etc.
Again sounds like a very high degree of Reality Warping and other abilities like matter manipuation and etc etc rather than normal omnipresence. Being everywhere at once does not mean you have control over everything.
3) Full Omnipresence - fully omnipresence all throughout the setting. Everywhere and nowhere, within all beings, whereas nothing can escape it's influence.
This is Omnipresence plus many other things like Higher dimensional manipuation,physics manipulation, acasualty,etc etc.
However overall the defintion of full omnipresence is actually what you defined as pseudo omnipresence.
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Actually, ven, your definition of pseudo-omnipresence is like the technical definition of omnipresence.
Your definition of omnipresence (local) is like omnipresence + limited reality warping.
And your definition of full omnipresence is omnipresence + extensive reality warping.
EDIT: fug I got ninja'd
Your definition of omnipresence (local) is like omnipresence + limited reality warping.
And your definition of full omnipresence is omnipresence + extensive reality warping.
EDIT: fug I got ninja'd
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No, Omnipresence without the ability to fully comprehend and perceive your own Omnipresence isn't the real thing. It's Pseudo.
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Ummm what?Matthew Schroeder said:
omnipresence = being everywhere in a given region, thats it; all the additional stuff are other independent and separate abilities.
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Pusedo= potentially being everywhere, but you are localized to one point at any given time.Sera Loveheart said:
Ex:Alucard from from hellsing is one iirc
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No, Omnipresence means beings everywhere at once. Period. If you have to put limitations such as limiting to a specific place, or time, or adding conditions, or saying that only the consciousness is omnipresent but the body is static, etc...
Then you are not talking about Omnipresence.
Just like Omnipotence is being All-Powerful and Omniscience is being All-Knowing, Omnipresence is being All-Present. If you apply a limitation to it you are no longer talking about real Omnipresence.
Then you are not talking about Omnipresence.
Just like Omnipotence is being All-Powerful and Omniscience is being All-Knowing, Omnipresence is being All-Present. If you apply a limitation to it you are no longer talking about real Omnipresence.
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No, here is the thing, in many cases, omnipresent beings also seem to be given additional abilities, however if a being is only stated to be omnipresent, they do not automatically get all those abilities.Sera Loveheart said:
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No, there are many extra abilities that can be inferred that a being gains from having Omnipresence.
And Grudge, that's not Pseudo-Omnipresence either. You're bringing up a literal depiction of the Schrodinger's Paradox.
And Grudge, that's not Pseudo-Omnipresence either. You're bringing up a literal depiction of the Schrodinger's Paradox.
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>inferMatthew Schroeder said:
No, just being in many places at once - or everywhere in a region does not take away the need to react or give you omnipresence in time itself, and it doesnt gaurentee reality warping like abilities either, all those are independent abilities that an omnipresent being can have, but might not necessarily have, just like non omnipresent beings.
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