Omnipresence

[Monarch_Laciel]

I think that omnipresence should not be used as a rating, and only as a power.

Omnipresence is not a speed thing, it is a range thing. Someone could be omnipresent throughout space, but still only have peak human reactions and combat speed. Omnipresence throughout space and time should just qualify as immeasurable speed, as should omnipresence throughout higher dimensions, and omnipresence on an outerversal scale should qualify as irrelevant, as they can simply move to and attack any point in space-time.

But at the same time, saying someone has omnipresence as their range has a similar problem with the scale of omnipresence. It's already covered by universal, universal+, multiversal, hyperversal, outerversal, and its unecessary to use. It can also be confusing depending on the level of omnipresence.

TL;DR - omnipresence should not be used as a rating because it is unecessary and potetially confusing and should only be used as a power

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Someone could be omnipresent throughout space, but still only have peak human reactions and combat speed."

Please elaborate how someone could exist on all places simultaneously perceiving all things happening on all places at once, and still have "Peak Human Reaction and Combat Speed"

 

[ProspectX]

Omnipresence is a state of a being, not speed. But i agree with your explanation. The last part.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

"Someone could be omnipresent throughout space, but still only have peak human reactions and combat speed."
Please elaborate how someone could exist on all places simultaneously perceiving all things happening on all places at once, and still have "Peak Human Reaction and Combat Speed"

Simple. They can only react as fast as they can think, and if they can't think fast enough it doesn't matter that they are everywhere.

Also, omnipresence does not necesarily lead to omniscience, so they won't always be simultaneously percieving everything, in the same way I myself do not simultaneously percieve everything going on within my body.

 

[SomebodyData]

Ah you're thinking of 3-D omnipresence, yeah it has no effect on speed, the wiki already understands that.

4-D and above omnipresence would mean you are in an additional temporal dimension (or something) I believe, forcing you to be at least immeasurable, with the added bonus of existing everywhere at once.

 

[Kaltias]

Also, omnipresence does not necessarily lead to omniscience, so they won't always be simultaneously percieving everything, in the same way I myself do not simultaneously percieve everything going on within my body.

I mean, you do perceive everything that you are watching. And if you are omnipresent you are watching everything.

 

[Antvasima]

Monarch Laciel does have a good point in that Omnipresence is technically not a speed, and should not be treated as such.

Unfortunately, it would take quite a lot of work to adjust all of the pages that list it in this manner, and we already have an upcoming striking strength revision project.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Spatial omnipresence alone is not a speed, its just being really big basically, usually as non corporeal, but adding on temporal omnipresence makes it speed. Basically if you exist in the past present and future simultaneously, you are not bound by linear time, as you could attack instantly, 5 seconds ago, a year from now, all at the same time, making somebody with spatial and temporal omnipresence a type of immeasurable speed.

 

[Debunking101]

ssjryu1 arent you the one who made a vid with seth the pogrammer saying goku is high tier in the dc verse

 

[Debunking101]

if not someone with your name has a youtube channel

 

[Debunking101]

scratch that it was definitely you lmao what were you thinking

 

[Debunking101]

heres the link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ClF7kfSnj0

 

[SSJRyu1]

I did do a video on that where we talked about our opinion on where Goku currently ranks power wise in DC. Seth and I often collab. To specify I said Goku was low-multiversal (at least thousands of times Universe+) based on his base being above SSJG after the Beerus battle, and plugging in the known official multipliers to that to determine a low ball for his AP as SSJB currently.

But if you wanna discuss that more you should just post on my wall or something so we don't derail this thread.

 

[Kaltias]

Let's keep Youtube out of this. I agree with the point of SSJRyu1

 

[ProspectX]

Then "true" omnipresence is only something possessed by Tier 0's? Since I keep seeing you mentioning the difference in that state of being.

 

[Antvasima]

Characters can be omnipresent at different levels of reality.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I just don't think that omnipresence should be listed as a speed. If someone is omnipresent thoughout space, their reaction speed is not necessarily the same, as I said, and they could have any speed from below human to infinite. If someone is omnipresent throughout space-time, they should be listed as immeasurable speed, and the fact that (by the "race" metaphor) they are "faster" than an immeasurable character who is not omnipresent should just be brought up in the debate. Same for if they are omnipresent throughout X number of higher dimensions, and so on.

 

[Antvasima]

You are likely technically correct, but it will have to wait for a future date, as we are already busy with another major revision.

 

[Kaltias]

Wouldn't it be better to list them as "omnipresent with X reactions" in that case? The 3D ones I mean

 

[Antvasima]

"Omnipresent with X combat speed" might be more appropriate, but I am more in favour of simply listing it as a power, rather than a speed.

 

[ProspectX]

@Ant I already know the general definition of that, but since many verses have different cosmology and only some have presented their tier O then isn't it safe to assume that only tier O can be omnipresent at ALL the different levels of reality.?

 

[Antvasima]

It depends on how high up a certain reality goes. There are ones that stop at Low 2-C for example.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I frankly really hate the idea of listing someone as "Omnipresent with X Speed." It sounds incredibly cringey.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, simply listing their omnipresence in the powers and abilities sections, while keeping the speed statistics separate, might be an idea at some later point.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I disagree entirely. Omnipresence is the status of being everywhere at once which in that case would include your opponent. An Omnipresent wouldn't need to move to attack it'd already be attacking.

 

[VenomElite]

Omnipresence is fine. I'm actually becoming very upset that these kinds of threads keep getting made. Most end up requiring something that could damage our system and if we just think about how things apply fictionally we'll be far better off.

There's nothing wrong with listing omnipresence as speed as we've been doing it and virtually every other battle board that profiles characters this way accepts omnipresence as a form of speed. Let's not become the "aristocratic elite" of vs debating by getting too technical. We already have that problem as it is.

 

[Antvasima]

No, it would not. Omnipresence is more about size than speed, and, for example, being omnipresent on a universal scale would not mean much in a comparison with a being that transcends universes.

 

[Antvasima]

Compare it with fighting an infection of super powerful viruses within your body. Just because they are inside of you does not mean that you are attacking them at infinite speeds.

 

[Sera_EX]

An infection spreads though. Omnipresence is the virtue of being present everywhere. All-presence. Everywhere and nowhere. In western theism, omnipresence is roughly described as the ability to be "present everywhere at the same time", referring to an unbounded or universal presence. Omnipresence affects one's speed, to think otherwise would mean ignoring the background of which the concept was founded which is completely wrong.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No, it's not about size. An Omnipresent doesn't even have size. It's a metaphysical state. An Omnipresent on a Universal scale would be everywhere at once in said universe and thus be capable of attacking everyone at once.

Ventus is 100% correct. These threads often show up with people often new to the website writing some loads of paragraphs, and the winner often ceases to be the one who's in the right but rather the one who sounds the most intellectual. The Existence Erasure thread was a terrible recent example of this.

Omnipresence has nothing to do with size and is in fact a state of transcendent over movement. A state of being everywhere at once. Present in everything, thus omnipresent. You don't need combat speed if you are omnipresent.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Your virus example is not a good analogy because the virus isn't omnipresent.

 

[Sera_EX]

Of course this doesn't apply to combat speed.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that we can keep it as if is then. I just consider situations for which a universal character such as regular Eternity encounters another character, such as Krona, that transcends his scale of power and influence.

 

[Kaltias]

I think that Ant meant that the omnipresent is the body, actually

 

[Antvasima]

Kaltias is correct.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Being Omnipresent with Human reactions sounds ridiculous imho.

It's like saying I can be everywhere at once at all times, but I can't even react to a bullet which is just silly.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Frankly, our pages for Omnipresence, Omniscient and specially Omnipotence are very bad. They often just make fun of the concept and give fictional examples rather than explain the concept philosophycally in-depth.

Do you want good pages that explain those powers?

http://pt-br.infinitas-guerras.wikia.com/wiki/Blog_de_usu%C3%A1rio:Kevyn_Souza/Onipot%C3%AAncia:_Introdu%C3%A7%C3%A3o_Geral

http://pt-br.liberproeliis.wikia.com/wiki/Onipot%C3%AAncia

http://pt-br.liberproeliis.wikia.com/wiki/Onipresen%C3%A7a

http://pt-br.liberproeliis.wikia.com/wiki/Onisci%C3%AAncia

There's a reason why I mentioned Executor N0's and Kevyn Souza's wikis to you before, Ant. They are frankly far more intelligent than our and less tied down by meaningless minutia and technicalities, and and Executor's has a set standard of page quality that we should have incorporated years ago.

Edit: Sorry if I sounded harsh on this, but I really admire Executor and Kevyn's debating skills and intelligence and we have nothing but growth to gain by trying to be more like them.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Ant

Oh I see what you mean now. Yes, in that case clarification would be best.

 

[VenomElite]

Do you want good pages that explain those powers?

http://pt-br.infinitas-guerras.wikia.com/wiki/Blog_de_usu%C3%A1rio:Kevyn_Souza/Onipot%C3%AAncia:_Introdu%C3%A7%C3%A3o_Geral

http://pt-br.liberproeliis.wikia.com/wiki/Onipot%C3%AAncia

http://pt-br.liberproeliis.wikia.com/wiki/Onipresen%C3%A7a

http://pt-br.liberproeliis.wikia.com/wiki/Onisci%C3%AAncia

Those are good examples. ACF also has great pages for Omnipotence, Omnipresence, and Omniscience.

In any case, why don't we just list "Omnipresent in space-time" as "Nigh-Omnipresence" that's basically what it is.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we are still not going to promote small wikis that have no history with or connection to ourselves, by making them into official partners.

However, after the striking strength revision project is completely finished, you can start staff threads that suggest improvements to our pages, if you wish.