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Okey vs You're too slow!

Also like, the main argument is that Fate hax will take an affect on Ness and make Sonic win Via..... What now? Fate hax? But how.

It doesn't make too much sense. Power null doesn't kill, it simply takes away the abilities. Ness can still do all of the stuff me and Giver mentioned.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
Also now that I've read through Archie Sonic's profiles, has he been shown able to harm non-corporeals in base? It's not on his profile anywhere so he can't even physically touch Ness. I'd also like to know if power ring is thought based or not.
Click to expand...
Not too sure. I used this argument in the beginning of the match and It seems he that can't actually harm Ness. As for the power ring, it was said to be thought based iirc
 
So both haxxes are thought based, Sonic gets mind haxxed and Ness gets power-nulled. So unless power rings can also undo the effects, it'd be Sonic incapped and Ness nulled. Also from what I understand from Sonic's fate hax it also saves him at times by getting outside help to save him, which goes against a vs thread. So it's even less helpful here.
 
>The rings consist of 4-D powers as they come from the Chaos Force which in it's self is 4-D.Also chaos energy can harm Enerjak and Master Mogul whom are 4-D beings.

>Clearer demonstration doesn't mean it's stronger,Sonic's fatehax by default are stronger by affecting type 4 acasuals which Ness's fatehax can't do unless proven.TOTU is still a factor in the fight Sonic's fatehax can effect it's power unless shown to resist said Fatehax.As shown it works on Mammoth Mogul while he was in his 1st and 2nd tenure forms where he's omnipresent and type 4.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0pzddrFEyQ2--k2bcmDKQZRNA#

>Inducing CIS through date is the offensive capabilities of his fatehax.Migul stayed that what ever power he used the fates convened to make him lose.Fate destines Sonic's opponent to lose simple as that.Does Ness even lead with incap?

>What are you talking about?Being Nigh Omniscient doesn't mean you can resist CIS caused by fate manip,especially fate manip that can affect type 4 acasuals,where's that shown or proven?

Scans

-Nate Morgan used the wishing power of the rings which nulled Ugly Nagus and sealed him in the Zone of Silence as we don't see him as Ugly Nagus again due to his nullification.Nate also taught Sonic all about the rings so he would be very likely he would use them especially if they're in his arsenal.Considering it nulled a 2-A down to a Low 2-C Ness would be useless when nulled.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0iurrRgguObIzK0fC72aTRlmw

I vote Sonic for my reasons.

I'm done debating for tonight rn.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
So both haxxes are thought based, Sonic gets mind haxxed and Ness gets power-nulled. So unless power rings can also undo the effects, it'd be Sonic incapped and Ness nulled. Also from what I understand from Sonic's fate hax it also saves him at times by getting outside help to save him, which goes against a vs thread. So it's even less helpful here.
Click to expand...
>Ness's Mindhax ain't doing jack to Sonic's resistance

>Outside help from fatehax is just away it's preformed.Fate manip Just allowed intervention from freinds,here it will still have the same effect but just not include intervention.
 
>Don't remember once asking for the dimensionality, but ok.

>It affects type 4's, cool, asides from the fact that it's not as impressive as people attempt to make it out to be (especially at tier 2), it also doesn't debunk anything I argued thusfar. Yes he can fatehax Ness, not only did I not contest this but I explained why it's useless.

>Never denied it's not offensive, even though that doesn't remotely seem offensive in that scan. Fate destines that Sonic won't die, he doesn't, he gets incapped. That's literally his entire thing that he's a pacifist and leads with incap hax rather then killing hax.

>Can't believe I need to explain this.

"CIS refers to mental limits of a character that cause them to perform at below the true potential of their powers. The term is somewhat of a misnomer, since it refers to more than just stupidity - it could also refer to a character's unawareness, morals, or any other mental characteristic that limits the use of their powers."

We live in a society where an omniscient can be unaware now, damn. It being caused by fate manip is irrelevant, unless Sonic has been specifically shown to affect an omniscient with it.

Nate.

Nate

Nat

Na

N

So from what I've seen nothing implies Sonic uses this in-character, and that the hax comes from powerscaling, neato. Ness takes this due to PSI incap.
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
>Outside help from fatehax is just away it's preformed.Fate manip Just allowed intervention from freinds,here it will still have the same effect but just not include intervention.
Click to expand...
>" Mind Manipulation (Unaffected by Enerjak's takeover from the brainwashing hex, which allowed him to possess Knuckles)"

^He resists brainwashing, not the type of mind hax Ness uses.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Standard_Battle_Assumptions

"Outside Influence: None. No characters of either verse, aside from those participating in the battle, may influence the outcome of the battle in any way. That means they may not join the fight, grant buffs, create shields, provide information etc. Exceptions are things like blessings, calling upon some higher entities power for a spell, summoning familiars to battle for them, having another character as equipment or more generally spoken the things which are listed on the profile as part of a characters own powers and abilities."

Notice how none of the exceptions include fate hax randomly having outside influence occur.
 
ElixirBlue said:
Here's the blog that has a good intro into Sonic's FateHax if anyone wants it.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U..._Archie_Sonic_Plot_Armor#WikiaArticleComments
Click to expand...
"

I hadn't considered that the billionth ring aura and the "constant inconsistency" could be the same thing. And if I'm being perfectly honest, I still don't.

Mogul's assertation that reality warped to allow Sonic to defeat him is technically correct, however, it's not that reality changed to have Sonic win it changed to have Mogul lose. The Ancient Walkers cursed Mogul's emerald so that all his plans would fail, this is in no way a result of Sonic's aura.

It feels more like Eggman is making excuses for his failures rather than plot manipulation being an actual aspect of the ring aura. The fact Eggman has previously defeated Sonic works against his theory. While Eggman is a genius, he was insane when he developed this theory, and it was the thing that allowed him to regain his sanity. The way I see it, this idea is what keeps him from going crazy due to failure, the way he calms down after reminding himself that "chaos is a constant" implies that it's almost a sort of coping mechanism. However, I'm not on the up and up on post-genesis-wave events sound I could be wrong about this.

Sonic having a positive aura is (as far as I'm aware) only mentioned while he's Super Sonic. To me, this implies that this also is not the ring aura, but a result of Sonic using positive chaos energy to transform. It's also worth noting that breaking Finitevus' hex was entirely Locke's doing, Sonic played no part in it. The most that could be argued is his positive aura helped weaken Enerjak enough for Knuckles to...reject him, or whatever, once he regained sanity.

The fact Scourge was able to use the Master Emerald without Finitevus' knowing to charge a warp ring shows that the ring aura was not responsible for Sonic being able to access the emerald's power. Locke is obviously blocked from using it and while he speculates others are too, Finitevus never confirms this and is only perplexed that Sonic is able to use it without any ill effects rather than that he is able to use it at all.

Honestly, the only powers the billionth ring aura seems to grant naturally is preserving Sonic humanity and restoring said humanity but only with additional power. Overall, it's nothing to write home about.

As a side note, the hex didn't prevent Archimedes' telepathy from working, it warped Knuckles' mind to the point that telepathy wouldn't help.

Edit: I made a more in-depth thread on this."

That just made it sound even worse.
 
So wait, what are Sonic win con here again? I don't completely understand why when half of it were just the good old "fate hax inducing CIS" argument or Powernull. At best it would force this matchup into an inconclusive verdict. When most of what Sonic has can't affectively or properly kill Ness.

Meanwhile Ness has a lot of incap options and has a good advantage Via being one with space and time.

Btw

Ness: 2

Sonic: 2

Inconclusive: 0
 
VioletVoid100 said:
Now I want to read Archie Sonic comics now. Also Sonic FRA
Click to expand...
A heads up, issues 100 - 150 are a tough read. Ian Flynn starts his writing in 160, with the beginning of Scourge. Ian Flynn's writing slowly gets better to being amazing as the issues go on.

But issue 1 - 50 plus the miniseries are always a pleasure reread. It reminds a simpler time for the comic.
 
I'm inconclusive. My gut say Sonic but I don't like to keep relying on FateHax for Sonic to get the win. If only he was allowed to have his iconic speed superiority for once...
 
Ugh, again, what is Sonic win con again? We've ran down through this multiple times...

I honestly just see Ness having more advantages here.

And I don't really think that's a valid vote for Inconclusive just because you don't rely on a cheap tactic. Which I respect btw.
 
Sorry, you're right, QuirkyBoy. I'll just hold off voting for now. I just really want to have Sonic's speed to be a factor again. Sonic's main power is his speed and yet its made redundant in the OPs.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
Uhh, Ness is omnipresent and Base Sonic is MFTL+.
Click to expand...
So... hm. i'm clearly dumb. Ness is Ominpresent and Sonic is MFTL+. Is that a bad thing for Sonic or Ness?
 
@Elixir Ness being Omnipresent means he's everywhere. It's above any MFTL+ character.

Things seem to have been getting heated before, so I'll just say something.

Just a friendly reminder that this is all for entertainment at the end of the day. When the entertainment turns into frustration, it loses its purpose when you or others stop having fun. While a VS thread is obviously competitive, people shouldn't be getting angry.

So what if Ness beats Sonic or Sonic beats Ness? At the end of the day, people love their characters and they're both still incredibly formidable. Just take a step away from the thread, take a deep breath, and just remember that it isn't that big of a deal.

With that said, I'm gonna be heading off to bed. Good night, peeps, and just remember to have fun and be civil!
 
I acknowledge your kind words and the reminders you set out here. Thank you, I appreciate them a lot. It's a reminder to not get all moody and toxic. I understand them greatly. Goodnight! And have a Great day!

This applies to you all.

I just don't like the argument that is being displayed for Sonic is all. I'm chill regardless even if it doesn't seem like it.
 
I usually call him "Bendy" as do others. This is because his name back then was "Undoubtly Bendy" or something like that. That was a long time ago though.
 
Memories huh? Well, let's not get too off topic anyways. Currently there's two for each character.
 
Yes, and they were good (unlike my younger days...That was full of cringe). It is neat.

Anyway, yes, we are getting a bit off topic.

To get things on topic...

Uhh fate hax, yeah I don't really that's a good comparison since that other character is probably not Nigh Omniscient like Ness. So please elaborate on why it is "jack sh*t" to me. I'm pretty curious as to how the two relate to eachother.
 
Question, would the Power Rings depower Ness? See Nate Morgan, the little Overlander
 
Depower as in depowering his tier or whatever? Probably not, the kid is a Universe. That's impossible to do (tho this is Archie, they can do whatever they want). Or do you mean depower as in nullifying Ness's PSI? In which, probably yes but not before Sonic gets incap'd.

IMO The Sonic votes should not even be counted as it wasn't specified what his win con was, but I digress.

Giver pretty much covered a lot on these arguments.
 
The Power Ring depowered Naugus, who was 2-A at the time. His base was Low 2-C, as he expanded a tiny space of pocket dimension into a universe with its own properties.

Partly the reason why Sonic is considered Low 2-C with scaling. Not the only reason but one of them.
 
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