Ogre Dad VS Alchemy Dad

[Anttron224]

Yuichiro Hanma (Grappler Baki) VS Van Hohenheim (Fullmetal Alchemist)

Van Hohenheim was accidentally transported to the Bakiverse when fighting against the Homunculi. He landed on a small island in the Okinawa territory. The island looked as if it were bombed for days on end. While walking around the island he felt a strange energy, as if he was in the presence of a demon itself. Then in the distance, he saw it. A man, it seemed. But there was something wrong about this man, his musculature was overdeveloped, an intense aura emanated from him that couldn't possibly come from a man, and he was surrounded by hundreds of soldiers foreign to Hohenheim's knowledge. Then Hohenheim watched as this creature killed all of them almost instantaneously by grabbing their leader and swinging him around like nunchaku. In this instant, he realized that this thing needed to be stopped before he could even begin to find a way back to his realm. As he started thinking of a plan of action, the beast noticed him. "You're not one of the US' troops." it proclaimed. Hohenheim immediately started to use his alchemy. "You'll challenge me, Yuichiro? Even after what you witnessed? I accept." stated Yuichiro while smiling calmly.

Speed is equalized; they start 9.144 meters (30 feet) apart on a small Okinawan island; Yuichiro chooses to not use Demon Back

Yuichiro Hanma:

Van Hohenheim:

Inconclusive:

 

[BakiHanma18]

So, 30 ft, no DB, and speed equalized... what's the AP gap?

 

[Anttron224]

Hohenheim's 28.86 to 90.4225 kilotons vs whatever the current AP is for Baki's God tiers

 

[BakiHanma18]

Hohenheim's 28.86 to 90.4225 kilotons vs whatever the current AP is for Baki's God tiers

So Yoichiro as of right now scales vastly above 15 KT. At most, daddy Elric has about a 2x AP advantage, and at Honhenheims's lowest, Yoichiro has a roughly 2x AP advantage.

 

[BakiHanma18]

So, regen gets countered by either Hohenheim's soul getting drained from it or Guise's red-out effect knocking Hohenheim out. 30 ft is going to be covered just about instantly, and Yuichiro's Enhanced Sixth is going to let him know about the AP similarity, likely leading to him to lead with Guise. I think I'm gunna vote Yuichiro. When Yuichiro gets him in Guise, the congestion of blood in the head is going to cause blindness first, then deafness, and finally unconsciousness, so if he doesn't get killed over and over over the course of many, many kills to drain his soul, Yuichiro incaps (which is honestly way more likely to happen and it's definitely going to happen sooner than killing Hohenheim enough times to drain his soul)

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Sufficient regen makes KOing impossible. And Hohenhim can regenerate from anything here, Yuchiro has no win condition.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Sufficient regen makes KOing impossible. And Hohenhim can regenerate from anything here, Yuchiro has no win condition.

Check Hohenheim's weaknesses. His regen ***** out when his soul drains. Yuichiro can also knock out incap. I've already said all of this

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

I'm well aware that Hohenheim can run out of souls if killed enough, however the issue at hand is that Yuchiro would have to kill him a total of 536,329, which isn't happening with his stamina. That would take days on end to overpower. And no, Yuchiro can't incap, regen would allow recovery from such wounds. And that's not taking into consideration Van opens up with thought based Alchemy that he abuses with his range.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I'm well aware that Hohenheim can run out of souls if killed enough, however the issue at hand is that Yuchiro would have to kill him a total of 536,329, which isn't happening with his stamina. That would take days on end to overpower. And no, Yuchiro can't incap, regen would allow recovery from such wounds.

Someone like Son of Ogre Baki considers 12 hours of absolutely strenuous workout to be a "warm-up". Several days of bare minimum exertion wouldn't even be that difficult for a high-tier, much less a god tier. Considering it took Yujiro less than a minute to complete a Guise on an end of SOO Baki, Baki only avoiding outright death due to his skill (something that Hoenhiem very notably lacks in fighting), Yuichiro could kill Hohenheim 720 times in the amount of time it takes Baki to complete his warm-up with about the same level of effort.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

If the characters aren't shown to be able to fight for days on end then you can't simply assume that Yuchiro and comparable characters are able to fight for days on end via up scaling from a 12 hour work out feat, that doesn't even comparable to fighting someone on your level for the same amount of time. There are no feats in feat where characters fight for that long, so you can't simply assume that going on scaling above a 12 hour feat. That's the equivalent of me saying Marineford Luffy can fight for days on end for being vastly above a 12 hour fighting feat.


Again, assuming Hohenheim is gonna start off with CQC Combat, something he never starts with. He always starts with abusing his long ranged thought based alchemy, which Yuchiro has no answer too.


So we have this so far, Yuchiro can't sufficiently kill Hohenheim quicky enough or enough times to overwrite his soul pile, can't counter thought based Alchemy that can attack you from every direction, has a serious disadvantage when it comes to intelligence when in comparison to Hohenheim, doesn't have enough AP for every hit to be fatal, etc. Yuchiro has no win condition here.

 

[BakiHanma18]

If the characters aren't shown to be able to fight for days on end then you can't simply assume that Yuchiro and comparable characters are able to fight for days on end via up scaling from a 12 hour work out feat, that doesn't even comparable to fighting someone on your level for the same amount of time. There are no feats in feat where characters fight for that long, so you can't simply assume that going on scaling above a 12 hour feat. That's the equivalent of me saying Marineford Luffy can fight for days on end for being vastly above a 12 hour fighting feat.

Again, assuming Hohenheim is gonna start off with CQC Combat, something he never starts with. He always starts with abusing his long ranged thought based alchemy, which Yuchiro has no answer too.


So we have this so far, Yuchiro can't sufficiently kill Hohenheim quicky enough or enough times to overwrite his soul pile, can't counter thought based Alchemy that can attack you from every direction, has a serious disadvantage when it comes to intelligence when in comparison to Hohenheim, doesn't have enough AP for every hit to be fatal, etc. Yuchiro has no win condition here.

Baki alone has many feats that back up endurance to fight someone comparable for a considerable amount of time, but that's besides the point. Hohenheim's lifting strength is unknown, and Yuichiro's is above Class 50, an absolutely massive difference. The most difficult thing Yuichiro would have to do is catch Hohenheim, the rest of the fight would just equate to Yuichiro moving his arms

Long range that gets completely negged by speed equalized at Supersonic+ at only 30ft away...

Yuichiro can easily kill him quickly and enough times, Alchemy gets hard negged by a simple rush, Yuichiro's skill and fighting experience eclipse Hohenheim's by galaxies, and will be completely unimpeded the whole time. Sound like a win con to me

 

[Anttron224]

If the characters aren't shown to be able to fight for days on end then you can't simply assume that Yuchiro and comparable characters are able to fight for days on end...

Yuichiro fought the US military for days while simultaneously getting bombed each day and showed no signs of fatigue or damage

 

[Anttron224]

And the constant bombardment was of comparable damage outputs

 

[00potato]

I am starting to think Yuchiro prolly can't kill him enough before getting alchemy'd

 

[BakiHanma18]

If the characters aren't shown to be able to fight for days on end then you can't simply assume that Yuchiro and comparable characters are able to fight for days on end...

Yuichiro fought the US military for days while simultaneously getting bombed each day and showed no signs of fatigue or damage

Yeah, was gunna save that one for further argumentation, but yeah. Dude was literally fighting legions of soldiers while being on an island that was getting bombed so hard it was getting terraformed for days and wasn't even breathing hard

 

[BakiHanma18]

I am starting to think Yuchiro prolly can't kill him enough before getting alchemy'd

Really after, say, 2 or 3 kills, Yuichiro (who's background is in Judo, might I add) might just pin him. Hohenheim simply cannot break out of a pin or hold

 

[Anttron224]

Also you can't regen from passing out due to having too much blood flowing to your brain. That isn't damage.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Also you can't regen from passing out due to having too much blood flowing to your brain. That isn't damage.

I was wondering about that earlier. Like "okay, what? Hohenheim would be passing out because of blood congestion, but okay"

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Irrelevant, no character in Baki can fight for days on end and until then it cannot be assumed to be such. Lifting strength is also irrelevant to this discussion as TK against Yuchiro isn't gonna be something Hohenheim is gonna do. I.E he'll use massive Alchemy constructs to attack Yuchiro from every direction on a thought.


Range isn't going to be negated by the speed being equal, Yuchiro can try to avoid them but considering said constructs have a massive amount of AoE and can appear from all directions I have serious doubts on Yuchiro escaping.


No, Yuchiro cannot kill him enough times. This claim is outright unsupported and false, he upscales from a 12 hour training feat, doesn't mean he can fight for days on end against someone who's comparable and has a massive range / environmental advantage. Alchemy ain't getting negged by a simple rush either when Pride could hardly do anything against Hohenheim. Fighting skill and experience is hardly gonna be an issue when Hohenheim isn't gonna go anywhere close to Yuchiro, instead staying back, abusing his range and coming up with several complex strategies to ensure his victory. I see no wincon for Yuchiro.

 

[Anttron224]

That's like saying the natural effects of high g force are physical attack damage rather than a natural force causing your body to react a certain way.

 

[BakiHanma18]

So I'd like to change my reasoning: Yuichiro for Guise's red-out incapping or Yuichiro just straight up putting Hohenheim in a submission hold or pin

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

And no, Hohenheim would repair the blood flow with his Regenerationn, damage to blood vessels and internal bleeding absolutely counts as damage. Pinning Hohenheim is useless due to thought based hax.

 

[Anttron224]

Yuichiro has Town Class striking strength. A giant stone pillar or another construct based attack would be pulverized.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Said stone pillars are 7-C.

 

[Anttron224]

Said stone pillars are 7-C.

In AP, sure

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

And in durability, weaker characters can't break them and if they didn't have durability on the same level they'd shatter upon impact. Blatantly incorrect, everything Hohenheim does is 7-C.

 

[Anttron224]

Repairing blood vessels that burst from impacts doesn't change the natural flow of blood being disrupted and altered by the g force generated by guise, which isn't damage to be repaired from in the first place.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Except literally Yuichiro did. As for lifting strength, the constructs aren't going to oneshot, at that point, Hohenheim has blown us one chance and Yuichiro is going to close the distance an incap.

30 ft can be covered almost instantly, as I've already said. Serious doubts are fine, but considering Yuichiro survived getting bombed with explosives of comparable AP for days, I don't think getting hit is going to stomp Yuichiro from getting his hands on Hohenheim

Doesnt need to kill him, he's got 2 ways to incap. What Pride can do to Hohenheim is irrelevant. It's not going to be Hoenhiem's choice, as Yuichiro can use Analytical Prediction to cut off any of Hohenheim's means of escaping. Not only does Yuichiro have a win con, Yuichiro wins mid diff

 

[Anttron224]

So is Yuichiro

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Which is yet again irrelevant, with low-high Regenerationn it prevents being knocked out or passing out. Father's blood flow would reverse itself back to normal. This is soemthing quite literally any staff member will tell you.

 

[Anttron224]

They're both Town level, and like you said comparable attacks destroy them with ease

 

[BakiHanma18]

That's literally not what regen is. Regen is when someone regenerates damage done to their body, blood manipulation would be needed to change the flow of blood

 

[Anttron224]

Low-High: The ability to regenerate from having no solid parts of the body remaining. This can range from a puddle or drop of blood to even a single cell. For robots and machines, this can also include regenerating from a liquid state.

Where does it state immunity to being knocked out? Blood flow changing due to g force isn't damage, and wouldn't be reversed as if it were.

 

[Anttron224]

That's like saying being upside down isn't Hohenheim's natural state, so he would regenerate back to being upright in position.

 

[BakiHanma18]

So here's what we have so far: Hohenheim's constructs get destroyed, he can get incapped 2 different ways, and any attempts to get away are stopped by Analytical Prediction and a massive gap in fighting experience and skill

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Except literally Yuichiro did. As for lifting strength, the constructs aren't going to oneshot, at that point, Hohenheim has blown us one chance and Yuichiro is going to close the distance an incap.


Prove to me that Yuchiro spent every wakimg moments fighting against the Army, which wouldn't even make sense. The Army isn't going to deploy soldier's to fight for days on end without pulling back to strategize, take needed breaks, etc. Lifting strength has nothing to do with AP and the same could be said for Yuichiro, he can't one shot either. And no, Hohenheim is going to be constantly using it while putting distance between them.


30 ft can be covered almost instantly, as I've already said. Serious doubts are fine, but considering Yuichiro survived getting bombed with explosives of comparable AP for days, I don't think getting hit is going to stomp Yuichiro from getting his hands on Hohenheim.


Again with this dubious claim? Your grasping for straws Baki, they didn't spend the FULL time fighting for evey moments and they definitely aren't comparable. Yuchiro was able to AP stomp the soldiers and the only thing you could compare to him are missiles and even then WW2 missiles aren't going to be any stronger than the Fat-Man or Little-Boy bombs which barely breach into 7-C, making them not comparable.


Doesnt need to kill him, he's got 2 ways to incap. What Pride can do to Hohenheim is irrelevant. It's not going to be Hoenhiem's choice, as Yuichiro can use Analytical Prediction to cut off any of Hohenheim's means of escaping. Not only does Yuichiro have a win con, Yuichiro wins mid diff.


Already went over as to why those methods are objectively flawed, and his Analytical Prediction is hardly gonna be an issue. Show me Yuchiro being able to counter thought based hax using his AP, soemthing that can be created instantly from any direction at any moment. Oh boy, more Baki wank, big ******* surprise there.

 

[Anttron224]

Saying you proved something is wrong doesn't mean you did

 

[Anttron224]

It's on his page, they fought him for days nonstop until they gave up. The only tactical retreats made were to keep bombing him.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Saying you proved something is wrong doesn't mean you did

Let me get a staff member to reiterate since the both of you are misconstruing shit.

 

[Anttron224]

Let me get a staff member to reiterate since the both of you are misconstruing shit.

How can I misconstrue what you literally just said minutes ago.

Which is yet again irrelevant, with low-high Regenerationn it prevents being knocked out or passing out. Father's blood flow would reverse itself back to normal. This is soemthing quite literally any staff member will tell you.

So you are ignoring this \/

Low-High: The ability to regenerate from having no solid parts of the body remaining. This can range from a puddle or drop of blood to even a single cell. For robots and machines, this can also include regenerating from a liquid state.

Where does it state immunity to being knocked out? Blood flow changing due to g force isn't damage, and wouldn't be reversed as if it were.

That's like saying being upside down isn't Hohenheim's natural state, so he would regenerate back to being upright in position.