Non-Cloud to ground Lightning Speed and AP above tier 8

[Bobsican]

Okay, an issue came up in the KH revision thread about several found lightning feats not being cloud to ground lightning, however, it seems that to remain consistent with Electro pre-AP downgrade, just having an AP above tier 8 would make it be "strong enought" to qualify for MHS+, although this is never mentioned directly in the Lightning Feats page.
Would this be fine?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

"Cloud-to-Ground lightning
Based on the formula and scientific basis we can now make an estimation on which speed characters, that dodged cloud-to-ground lightning, should be placed at. We do that by inserting the distance values and the speed values into the formula. For the distance the character moved we will assume one meter, as that seems reasonable without further information. Should a character appear to have moved a lot more or a lot less than this, a separate calculation has to be made using the formula above.

Speed\Distance	Low-End (4000m)	Average (2100 m)	High-End (200m)
Low-End	25 m/s	47.62 m/s	500 m/s
Average (4.4×105 m/s)	110 m/s	209.52 m/s	2200 m/s
High-End	350 m/s	666.67 m/s	7000 m/s

Non-Cloud-to-Ground lightning​

Non Cloud-to-Ground lightning can be calculated with the same calculation mentioned above.

It should be noted that as long as the character or machine was not displayed creating cloud-to-ground lightning, it is questionable whether or not the lightning actually moves at average lightning speed, because the scientific knowledge on the speed of lightning is lacking in the current state of science, so that it is unknown which variables that could influence the speed."

It seems fine to calculate non cloud to ground lightning as cloud to ground from what I'm seeing though a calc members comment would be helpful.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

AP above tier 8 would make it be "strong enought" to qualify for MHS+, although this is never mentioned directly in the Lightning Feats page.

It's a common misconception that this isn't on the Lightning Feats page since it's kind of out of the way. It's there:

• Lightning that has demonstrated at a minimum a few properties that real lightning has, and significantly less properties that lightning shouldn't have, can be considered real. Some examples of favourable properties are: making muscles of affected beings contract, having an (electro)magnetic field, being shown to actually move with a speed similar to lightning, flowing through conducting materials, the character being able to manipulate real electricity or electromagnetism in general, generating ozone or causing electrolysis.

Additionally, for calculations that involve lightning speed, one has to consider that the speed of real electricity can change due to a variety of factors, but for practical purposes, concerning attacks that are electricity-based, if they display power comparable to that of natural lightning, they should be considered to move at a comparable speed. It is required to show that the electricity carries an energy of at least 1.6 billion Joules or a voltage of at least 100 million Volts in order to qualify.

Do I think this clause is stupid and makes zero sense considering what DontTalk/Weekly originally argued for it to be true? Yes. Is it currently the standard? Also yes.

 

[Bobsican]

It's a common misconception that this isn't on the Lightning Feats page since it's kind of out of the way. It's there:

Do I think this clause is stupid and makes zero sense considering what DontTalk/Weekly originally argued for it to be true? Yes. Is it currently the standard? Also yes.

This part makes me wonder if it's usable is this:
"It is required to show that the electricity carries an energy of at least 1.6 billion Joules or a voltage of at least 100 million Volts in order to qualify."
The above just isn't really possible without using sheer AP potency scaling, which doesn't relate at all otherwise, and I doubt if it could be fine like that.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Doesn't one of the heartless electricity statements in KH 3 directly match that?

 

[Bobsican]

I think it was far lower, and Jiminy isn't exactly reliable for that as far I'm aware. Otherwise Thunder magic would ignore durability as from what I remember having an explicit electrical current level would allow that.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Dunno why Jiminy would be unreliable here, it's the one case where we have some form of idea behind thunder.

Also I checked the thread for dura negging thunder and they just said no to it regardless of the proof likely moreso meaning that having the electrical voltage isn't enough but it'd need to directly neg durability.

 

[DontTalkDT]

If it's real electricity and strong enough I think it should be fine.