Non Canon Bois: Menma-Obito vs Oko Yushima

[Rocker1189]

I'm referring to your earlier post
And yet several Uchiha are able to get it off on her......but in this one instance he couldn't?

You didn't know several things about his Spatial Manip, or even his mindset

Please mention who is several Uchiha that is not Itachi are (finger point genjutsu is broken and so is reversing genjutsu).

I did not know how it worked literally waht I just said. I don tsee how his mindset changes himself from getting genjutsued.

 

[HST_Master]

@Rocker

He did it to Naruto to extract Kurama. Next normal fight he decides to go CQC

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker
He did it to Naruto to extract Kurama. Next normal fight he decides to go CQC

because you cant genjusu someone who wont look into your eyes as an uchiha, like I have already said.

 

[HST_Master]

@Rocker

Sasuke, Itachi, And was about to be Madara before Obito sent her away to Naruto and Co. after gaining his other rinnegan.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker
Sasuke, Itachi, And was about to be Madara before Obito sent her away to Naruto and Co. after gaining his other rinnegan.

Sasuke who she thought was a friend, Itachi can put you into a genjutsu from pointing but even then he never put Sakura under a genjutsu.

What do you mean about to be Madara, I would like proof of when Madara was going to put her in a genjutsu.

So you got 1 out of 3 and that one was a friend, good job.

I swear that even in a Itachi thread you would say that he does not use genjutsu.

 

[HST_Master]

Sasuke who immediately pronounced his wish to murder to Gokage

And when she got punted back from the Kamui dimension

Ironic how you say that when Itachi is the only one to consistently do so.

 

[Rocker1189]

Sasuke who immediately pronounced his wish to murder to Gokage
And when she got punted back from the Kamui dimension

Ironic how you say that when Itachi is the only one to consistently do so.

Yeah, and Sakura who is in love with him... I assume you are talking about right before his final fight with Naruto?

When did she get put under a genjutsu then. You are really confusing me now.

That was literally my point he is the person he uses genjutsu the most, but the way you talk about genjutsu I woould not be surprised if you said that he never starts with genjutsu. That is not ironic.

Still 1 out of 3 where the only one is for obvious reasons, your point is not getting made at all.

 

[HST_Master]

@Rocker

Sasuke, Itachi, And was about to be Madara before Obito sent her away to Naruto and Co. after gaining his other rinnegan.

Never said Madara successfully did so.

And we even have a more experienced Raikage getting Genjutsu'd despite knowing about it. And Danzo. But yet Sakura is so much more skilled than these 2?

Yes and everyone was on their guard with him immediately after he had his revolution speech, with Naruto telling hhim he didn't have to go that far.

No your point was because they have it means they start with it. Which is untrue for a majority of Uchiha in the series. Itachi's quite literally the only Uchiha who you can expect a Genjutsu or Sub off the bat.

Anyway I'm going to work. Give better reasons. Or don't. I'm stressed as is with irl to care anymore.

 

[Rocker1189]

Never said Madara successfully did so.

And we even have a more experienced Raikage getting Genjutsu'd despite knowing about it. And Danzo. But yet Sakura is so much more skilled than these 2?

Yes and everyone was on their guard with him immediately after he had his revolution speech, with Naruto telling hhim he didn't have to go that far.

No your point was because they have it means they start with it. Which is untrue for a majority of Uchiha in the series. Itachi's quite literally the only Uchiha who you can expect a Genjutsu or Sub off the bat.

Anyway I'm going to work. Give better reasons. Or don't. I'm stressed as is with irl to care anymore.

SO he just never did, unless it was said that she wa snearly put into a genjutsu you can not infer so.

Yeah who then literally said right after that happened that he was careless which actually proves my point about not looking into their eyes.


Yeha and Sakura was still trying to convince him, again he and Obito are completely different one is a complete enemy(that they still think is Madara and the other is not.


Exceot it is true for Uchiha that whenever they get the chance you get put into a genjutsu, people are just not stupid. Itachi's works because his is broken asf.

I have given good enough reasons you simply dont accept them, does not make you right and I have taken over the vote count anyway you dont need to worry.

 

[HST_Master]

Lunch Break

But you can infer that obito has kamui and all Uchiha use Genjutsu from the start? Convenient.

Which proves my point that if even the Raikage can get careless, Sakura isn't any better

Oh really?

So why did Sasuke never start off with Genjutsu? Or Madara? Or Sarada? Or even Non Uchiha Sharingan users like Kakashi and Danzo? Because it's not their fighting style. I can find WAY more fights where they don't start off with Genjutsu than when they do. Itachi is the only one who does abuse Genjutsu.

No you haven't. You ignore Yushima's abilities and use extremely convenient points for Obito which conveniently I'm just supposed to take your word for even though the source material goes against it. Oh and btw. Burden of Proof is on YOU to prove these things. Not me.

 

[Rocker1189]

I did not infer they all use it from the start I said that this Obito does in fact use it very early on.

He got careless because he was ridiculously tired from fighting 5 Susanoo clad Madara clones, if he was not careless I would be surprised, not to mentioned Sakura fought Obito for like half a minute, if she got careless in that short amount of time that is just bad.

Because people dont look into his eyes like idiots (unless when they do : see Bee and Itachi and Deidara iirc, then guess what? they get put in a genjutsu). Same reasoning for Madara see: Raikage. Sarada has been using genjutsu so much, again unless people are looking into her eyes: see Mirai and Konohamaru and lightning sword girl(cant remeber her name all those guys were put under genjutsu by Sarada.. Kakashi uses his sharingan specifically for Kamui sniping and he tries not to spam it for obvious reasons(not to mention he is not an Uchiha). Danzo cant even use the sharingan properly and only used it for Izanagi(and Danzo is not an Uchiha either). I have debunked everything you just said so not going to go through thr rest of that paragraph.

Np I have not according to you, the souce material does not go against it you do. I have proven my points, there is nothing for me to prove to you you either accept them or you dont, you have chosen not to so let us leave it at that and wait for people's votes. and so far Menma is winning.

 

[HST_Master]

You "inferred" that Obito can use Kamui when the manga says he can't if he's a Jinchuriki and then with zero proof try to say it was "Just the Juubi"

Still a point when a seasoned Kage can get caught in Sharingan Genjutsu but Sakura seemingly can't?

BS. Sasuke didn't use Genjutsu at all in Part 1 and Seldom used it in Part 2. He's used it.....

-To interrogate the Cloud Ninja

-On Deidara(Not on the start of the fight)

-On Bee after getting his ass kicked

-On C to stop him

-On Danzo as desperation

-On Zetsu to find oit where Naruto was after already beating them

-On Saukra

He's used it all of 7 times. None at the beginning of a fight.

And Madara? Pfft. He bodied the army on entrance and you're trying to tell me he can't use Genjutsu off the back if he wanted to? Cuz he doesn't.

And how many of those people were at the beginning of the fight Rocker? Besides none. And you know that.

No you dont. You don't reference EITHER series source material. And make it blatantly obvious that you have no itention to do so to make abetter argument rather and asking questions about both characters than mindlessly FRAing Menma off inconclusive reasoning and slapping "Summons GG" on it. Since i haven't see you mention his Abilities at all outside of trying to say it's only teleportation.

 

[Rocker1189]

The manga said he cant because he was the Jinchurikki of the Juubi. Nice try ignoring context like this. "Still a point when a seasoned Kage can get caught in Sharingan Genjutsu but Sakura seemingly can't?"

Sure if you take my reasonings out of context then yeah.... seriously the straw manning is real.

"BS. Sasuke didn't use Genjutsu at all in Part 1 and Seldom used it in Part 2."

Good point, except I never said he used it in part 1, (where he barely has much of a sharingan), and he used it enough in part 2. He did not use it at the start of the fight because again no one is stupid enough to glance into his eyes.

"He's used it all of 7 times."

That is quite a lot of times.

" And Madara? Pfft. He bodied the army on entrance and you're trying to tell me he can't use Genjutsu off the back if he wanted to? Cuz he doesn't. "

I am not saying he cant I am saying no one is stupid enough to look into his eyes, implied in the anime, were the moment a mook ninja looked into his eyes he got put under a genjutsu.

"And how many of those people were at the beginning of the fight Rocker? Besides none. And you know that."

And I have given reasons as to why they have not used them at the very start.

Your final point is just you crying I really cant be bothered to get through that, you do you.

But:

" FRAing Menma off inconclusive reasoning and slapping "Summons GG" on it. "

Yeah that is what I did at the very star, you really going to just continue harping on that 20 comments I made afterwards? lol?

 

[HST_Master]

Not out of context but again convenient for you eh

Sasuke having "not that much of a Sharingan" is a poor excuse seeing as how Sarada is still on 1 tomoe while Sasuke had 2 for the majority of part 1

7 times out of how many fights? Out of like 20 all together? And zero at the start.

No. You haven't. You've given zip on why Sarada hasn't used Genjutsu from the start in any of her uses.

"Crying" sure dodge the flaws, y'want me to quote Dot's reasons and then yours? Cuz you'll be surprised it seems. Also I'm not the one threatening to leave every post because I can't fra a incon vote and give bare bones reasoning.

 

[Rocker1189]

Not out of context but again convenient for you eh
Sasuke having "not that much of a Sharingan" is a poor excuse seeing as how Sarada is still on 1 tomoe while Sasuke had 2 for the majority of part 1

7 times out of how many fights? Out of like 20 all together? And zero at the start.

No. You haven't. You've given zip on why Sarada hasn't used Genjutsu from the start in any of her uses.

"Crying" sure dodge the flaws, y'want me to quote Dot's reasons and then yours? Cuz you'll be surprised it seems. Also I'm not the one threatening to leave every post because I can't fra a incon vote and give bare bones reasoning.

Truth is convenient at times, I don tknow how something being convenient is suddenly wrong but ok.

Right and kid Sasuke has nothing to do with this talk and Sarada proves my points anyway, I don tknow why Part 1 Sasuke mattters in any of this.

Technically Sakura one is from the start, and Sasuke has not had that many fights anyway.

Uchiha. That is enough reason not to look into the person's eyes.

You can just quote the reasons I have given or you can keep crying about something that happened 3 days ago.

....You keep on harping on abou this FRA thing dont you, after that I gave my points, you did not accept them, yet you keep on harping on the FRA thing, ok we get it. Whatever. If you think I am annoyed because of the FRA thing then you really have not understood what I am saying.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Lol, Obito says to himself he can't use Kamui because the Juubi's power is so dense, if I'm remembering correctly. Juubi was mentioned there. Nothing about normal Bijuu.

No opinion about this fight, but I'm gonna agree that Sharingan users don't always start with genjutsu.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I never said he starts with it either,but he sure as hell can last long enough to use it.

 

[HST_Master]

@Rocker It's convenient because you seem to want to circumvent Burden of Proof and Occam's Razor for your own idea

No. Your point was that all Uchiha use Genjutsu from the start and try to hide it behind the lame excuse "no one would look into their eyes" and "they would if they could". Ypu then tried to argue Sasuke not touching Genjutsu all part 1 as him having "Not that much of a Sharingan" even though his was better than Sarada who has used Genjutsu(and not from the bat either). And Sasuke doesn't have that many fights? Really? Cuz I counted at least 20. Poor Excuses.

Okay which one the "Barrier Dogpile GG" or "Genjutsu GG" which I've already shown what was wrong with. Both of which you adress nothing of Oko's btw.

And it seems like you don't understand that your "points" are pretty barebones and all I want is a proper explanation. But aparently asking how this beats the opponents abilities is just too wrong? Cuz this could just be resolved if you just say how this prevents Oko's Recording and Replay, Teleportation, and Reishi attacks instead of dodging.