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@Kalt Take it to my wall and i'll get the the multiple quotes as well as the WoG that says theyre concept reliant
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Nocturne vs. Naraku
- Thread starter Demise0
- Start date
- Status
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@Schro then go bother the Riot Developers about updating Nocturne's lore because until they do we have nothing else to go off of. If we dont use the available outdated lore the profile may as well be deleted
Or you could just be patient and wait for it to be updated
Or you could just be patient and wait for it to be updated
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There is no reason to delete it when we have lore to go off of. We used old lore for Jax until his lore was updated, same with Lee Sin and Aatrox. Be patient and wait like everyone else.
Now stop derailing
Now stop derailing
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@Raven:
Nameless fodder knight nulling Modrekaiser's soul manip:
"Begone, revenant, or I shall see you banished", said the knight. "This hamlet and its people are under my protection."
Rising to this threat, a host of specters and translucent warriors manifested in the Black Mist behind their master.
"This one's soul is mine", Mordekaiser said, holding the eager spirits at bay. His voice was deep and sepulchral, the timbre of death itself.
Mordekaiser pointed, and a cone of malignant Siphon of Destruction unlife burst towards the knight.
The knight's armor shone brightly for a second, then returned to its normal, mundane form, leaving him unharmed by Mordekaiser's necromantic sorcery.
Base Nocturne nulling summoners:
Nocturne felt a group of humans rush up from behind; for a second, his form pulsed. Paranoia Darkness smothered the entire field, an oppressive blackness that breathed and sighed. Victims eternally trapped in the phantasm murmured in the summoners' ears, promising eternal torment and pleading for release. Disembodied hands clawed at the living, desperate to rip any semblance of existence away for their own keeping.
The remaining summoners lashed out, flailing against the ghastly fingers that only disappeared long enough to reappear again in greater numbers. Spell incantations decayed on their lips as the magical energies refused to heed their call. The darkness began to suffocate the humans, and they clawed at their eyes in a wild attempt to regain their sight. Devoured by terror, they didn't even sense Nocturne's approach, nor did they feel the blades that cleaved through their soft bodies and condemned their souls to an eternity in the darkness.
Nocturne's shawow monsters no-selling Garen's armor:
A looming spider with hook-bladed legs reared over Garen, its bloated belly rippling with distended eyes and snapping jaws. He split its thorax and kicked the flailing creature from the platform even as its body disintegrated.
Legs braced, Garen felt a searing cold in the muscle of his shoulder as a black claw plunged through his pauldron. The metal did not buckle or crack. The claw passed through unimpeded, and Garen felt a sickening revulsion spread through him. He smelled rank grave dirt; the reek of fetid earth over a centuries-old sepulchre. He fought through the pain as he had always been trained to do.
Noc nulling Lux's magic while channeling his power through a child:
The boy reached out and stroked her cheek. His touch sent a cold spike of terror through Lux. He lifted his finger away, and a smoky thread followed. She gagged as the fear of drowning filled her. A tear rolled down her cheek. "I made him sleep, and his dreams were ripe with horrors to be made real," said the boy.
"His power is slight, a glowing ember compared to the furnace that burns in your flesh. It gave me little in the way of real substance, but childish fears are a banquet after I had gone so long without. Demacia is a terror to his kind. To your kind."
Lux felt her magic retreat from this creature, the darkness filling the clearing pressing her light down into little more than a spark. But even a single spark could begin a conflagration that would devour an entire forest. "They hated him. Luca knew that. You mortals are always so quick to fear the things you don't understand. So easy to fan those flames and draw forth the most exquisite visions of terror."
If you like i can find more but here is this
Nameless fodder knight nulling Modrekaiser's soul manip:
"Begone, revenant, or I shall see you banished", said the knight. "This hamlet and its people are under my protection."
Rising to this threat, a host of specters and translucent warriors manifested in the Black Mist behind their master.
"This one's soul is mine", Mordekaiser said, holding the eager spirits at bay. His voice was deep and sepulchral, the timbre of death itself.
Mordekaiser pointed, and a cone of malignant Siphon of Destruction unlife burst towards the knight.
The knight's armor shone brightly for a second, then returned to its normal, mundane form, leaving him unharmed by Mordekaiser's necromantic sorcery.
Base Nocturne nulling summoners:
Nocturne felt a group of humans rush up from behind; for a second, his form pulsed. Paranoia Darkness smothered the entire field, an oppressive blackness that breathed and sighed. Victims eternally trapped in the phantasm murmured in the summoners' ears, promising eternal torment and pleading for release. Disembodied hands clawed at the living, desperate to rip any semblance of existence away for their own keeping.
The remaining summoners lashed out, flailing against the ghastly fingers that only disappeared long enough to reappear again in greater numbers. Spell incantations decayed on their lips as the magical energies refused to heed their call. The darkness began to suffocate the humans, and they clawed at their eyes in a wild attempt to regain their sight. Devoured by terror, they didn't even sense Nocturne's approach, nor did they feel the blades that cleaved through their soft bodies and condemned their souls to an eternity in the darkness.
Nocturne's shawow monsters no-selling Garen's armor:
A looming spider with hook-bladed legs reared over Garen, its bloated belly rippling with distended eyes and snapping jaws. He split its thorax and kicked the flailing creature from the platform even as its body disintegrated.
Legs braced, Garen felt a searing cold in the muscle of his shoulder as a black claw plunged through his pauldron. The metal did not buckle or crack. The claw passed through unimpeded, and Garen felt a sickening revulsion spread through him. He smelled rank grave dirt; the reek of fetid earth over a centuries-old sepulchre. He fought through the pain as he had always been trained to do.
Noc nulling Lux's magic while channeling his power through a child:
The boy reached out and stroked her cheek. His touch sent a cold spike of terror through Lux. He lifted his finger away, and a smoky thread followed. She gagged as the fear of drowning filled her. A tear rolled down her cheek. "I made him sleep, and his dreams were ripe with horrors to be made real," said the boy.
"His power is slight, a glowing ember compared to the furnace that burns in your flesh. It gave me little in the way of real substance, but childish fears are a banquet after I had gone so long without. Demacia is a terror to his kind. To your kind."
Lux felt her magic retreat from this creature, the darkness filling the clearing pressing her light down into little more than a spark. But even a single spark could begin a conflagration that would devour an entire forest. "They hated him. Luca knew that. You mortals are always so quick to fear the things you don't understand. So easy to fan those flames and draw forth the most exquisite visions of terror."
If you like i can find more but here is this
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How is pointing out incorrect and outdated info derailing? If anything it's a black mark on your debating that you can't differentiate between the old, retconned stuff like the Summoners and newer info like his appearance in Garen and Lux's story and his short profile blurb ingame and on Universe.
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Because its pointless and doesnt bring anything to the debate? Because its the equivalent of going into a match with Pre-Retcon Beyonder and just saying 'He was retconned he doesnt exist anymore' for no reason? Because there is currently no other lore for us to go off of other than the old lore as Noc has yet to be updated?
Now again, stop derailing
Now again, stop derailing
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Thanks for the quotes, i think we should go over them one-by-one to prevent it being too messy:
The first one seems to be a Knight who withstand a form of ranged attack from Mordekaiser. It was described as the "Siphon of destruction"
Checking a LOL wiki, this attack has no description to be soul based or attack the soul. It is a regular magic attack which carries a certain potency.
Him saying "your soul is mine" therefore does not imply his attack specifically targets his soul but that - after he has killed the knight the knight would become an underling of him.
Which is also confirmed by his in-Universe description:
"Those who dare face Mordekaiser in battle risk a horrific curse: He enslaves his victims' souls to become instruments of destruction"
"Over the next decade Mordekaiser saw all those who had defied him slain. He cursed them into eternal servitude, drawing out their souls and forcing them to obey his undying will."
Or from the game mechanics the spell Children of the Graive:
"If the target dies while the spell is active, their soul is enslaved and will follow Mordekaiser as a ghost."
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So yes, Mordekaiser has actually Soul Manipulation - however he can only manipulate the Souls of people he has previously killed (or who are dead to begin with).
And the feat in question is a knight withstanding the Siphon of Destruction potency, not withstanding Soulsteal.
The first one seems to be a Knight who withstand a form of ranged attack from Mordekaiser. It was described as the "Siphon of destruction"
Checking a LOL wiki, this attack has no description to be soul based or attack the soul. It is a regular magic attack which carries a certain potency.
Him saying "your soul is mine" therefore does not imply his attack specifically targets his soul but that - after he has killed the knight the knight would become an underling of him.
Which is also confirmed by his in-Universe description:
"Those who dare face Mordekaiser in battle risk a horrific curse: He enslaves his victims' souls to become instruments of destruction"
"Over the next decade Mordekaiser saw all those who had defied him slain. He cursed them into eternal servitude, drawing out their souls and forcing them to obey his undying will."
Or from the game mechanics the spell Children of the Graive:
"If the target dies while the spell is active, their soul is enslaved and will follow Mordekaiser as a ghost."
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So yes, Mordekaiser has actually Soul Manipulation - however he can only manipulate the Souls of people he has previously killed (or who are dead to begin with).
And the feat in question is a knight withstanding the Siphon of Destruction potency, not withstanding Soulsteal.
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@Raven Actually no, Mord can actively place curses on the souls of the living, and as he is a denizen of the Shadow Isles he has soul manipulation with all of his attacks by default as per the power granted to everything affected by the Ruination
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Pointless? No new lore? Are you even reading the posts or not? Because there is enough new stuff to use you know. Yet you blindly ignore people and actually lie about not being able to use new stuff despite using it in conjunction with the old, retconned stuff? Which is it Weekly? Is there enough new info to use or not, and if there isn't then why are you using the feats from the short story, since they are new info about Nocturne?
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Can you elaborate a little more on the "denizen of the shadow isles", the power of the "ruination" and specifically where it confirms of him having soul manipulation on every attack?
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I would like to add that apparently my initial thought of Mordekaiser not having used Soul Manipulation in that specific feat is correct, as I just read the entire fight with the knight.
The Siphon Of Darkness was blocked due to "Demacian Steel" and just at the end of the fight, when the Knight was dead, did he manipulated the Knights remaining soul and made him into and underling.
I will just quote the entire fight here, since I think its way better than just quoting a part of it which could be easily misinterpreted:
The garrisoned soldiers and men-at-arms waited for him in the courtyard beyond. Weaklings all. His gaze swept over them as he sought a foe worthy of his attention. His undying gaze settled on a silver-clad knight that stepped out to meet him, sword drawn.
"Begone, revenant, or I shall see you banished," said the knight. "This hamlet and its people are under my protection."
Rising to this threat, a host of specters and translucent warriors manifested in the Black Mist behind their master.
"This one's soul is mine," Mordekaiser said, holding the eager spirits at bay. His voice was deep and sepulchral, the timbre of death itself.
Mordekaiser pointed, and a cone of malignant unlife burst towards the knight.
The knight's armor shone brightly for a second, then returned to its normal, mundane form, leaving him unharmed by Mordekaiser's necromantic sorcery.
"Demacian steel," sneered Mordekaiser. "It will not save you."
He stepped forward and brought his spiked mace down toward the knight's skull. The strike was met with a two-handed parry, though the power of it forced the knight to his knees. Mordekaiser towered over him.
The knight spun away, avoiding Nightfall as it swung toward him in a lethal arc. He sidestepped and sank his blade deep into Mordekaiser's side, biting through the banded links and chain. To a living man, it would have been a mortal blow, but to the armored behemoth, it was as nothing. Mordekaiser backhanded the knight across the side of his head, sending him reeling.
The Iron Revenant stepped in to end the fight, but the knight turned aside his strike with exquisite skill, and rammed the point of his blade into Mordekaiser's chest with all his strength and weight.
With a wrench of metal, the blade punched through the breastplate above the heart. There was no resistance from within, as if the suit were hollow.
Mordekaiser grabbed the knight by the throat in one giant hand and lifted him off the ground.
"You thought you could protect these mortals," said Mordekaiser. "But know that it will be you who slays them."
He squeezed, tightening his grip on the knight's throat. The mortal's feet kicked in the air.
Mordekaiser watched closely, eyes burning, as the life drained from the knight. Finally, he dropped the lifeless corpse to the floor.
Mordekaiser knelt and placed a hand upon the dead knight's chest. When the armored giant rose, he drew forth the shade of the dead warrior.
The spirit of the knight looked around it, horror writ in its spectral eyes.
"Now," commanded Mordekaiser, knowing that the shade was powerless to resist him. "Kill them all."
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Which is what I initially thought and goes against him having Soulsteal/manipulation on his every bread and butter moves while at the same time confirming that once someone is dead he can use their Souls to do his bidding.
It also confirms that the "his soul is mine" claim was actively meant to mean him making him an underlying after having defeated and killed the knight.
The Siphon Of Darkness was blocked due to "Demacian Steel" and just at the end of the fight, when the Knight was dead, did he manipulated the Knights remaining soul and made him into and underling.
I will just quote the entire fight here, since I think its way better than just quoting a part of it which could be easily misinterpreted:
The garrisoned soldiers and men-at-arms waited for him in the courtyard beyond. Weaklings all. His gaze swept over them as he sought a foe worthy of his attention. His undying gaze settled on a silver-clad knight that stepped out to meet him, sword drawn.
"Begone, revenant, or I shall see you banished," said the knight. "This hamlet and its people are under my protection."
Rising to this threat, a host of specters and translucent warriors manifested in the Black Mist behind their master.
"This one's soul is mine," Mordekaiser said, holding the eager spirits at bay. His voice was deep and sepulchral, the timbre of death itself.
Mordekaiser pointed, and a cone of malignant unlife burst towards the knight.
The knight's armor shone brightly for a second, then returned to its normal, mundane form, leaving him unharmed by Mordekaiser's necromantic sorcery.
"Demacian steel," sneered Mordekaiser. "It will not save you."
He stepped forward and brought his spiked mace down toward the knight's skull. The strike was met with a two-handed parry, though the power of it forced the knight to his knees. Mordekaiser towered over him.
The knight spun away, avoiding Nightfall as it swung toward him in a lethal arc. He sidestepped and sank his blade deep into Mordekaiser's side, biting through the banded links and chain. To a living man, it would have been a mortal blow, but to the armored behemoth, it was as nothing. Mordekaiser backhanded the knight across the side of his head, sending him reeling.
The Iron Revenant stepped in to end the fight, but the knight turned aside his strike with exquisite skill, and rammed the point of his blade into Mordekaiser's chest with all his strength and weight.
With a wrench of metal, the blade punched through the breastplate above the heart. There was no resistance from within, as if the suit were hollow.
Mordekaiser grabbed the knight by the throat in one giant hand and lifted him off the ground.
"You thought you could protect these mortals," said Mordekaiser. "But know that it will be you who slays them."
He squeezed, tightening his grip on the knight's throat. The mortal's feet kicked in the air.
Mordekaiser watched closely, eyes burning, as the life drained from the knight. Finally, he dropped the lifeless corpse to the floor.
Mordekaiser knelt and placed a hand upon the dead knight's chest. When the armored giant rose, he drew forth the shade of the dead warrior.
The spirit of the knight looked around it, horror writ in its spectral eyes.
"Now," commanded Mordekaiser, knowing that the shade was powerless to resist him. "Kill them all."
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Which is what I initially thought and goes against him having Soulsteal/manipulation on his every bread and butter moves while at the same time confirming that once someone is dead he can use their Souls to do his bidding.
It also confirms that the "his soul is mine" claim was actively meant to mean him making him an underlying after having defeated and killed the knight.
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@Raven Okay, short summary, the shadow Isles is an island that was heavily corrupted by powerful dark magic that turned everything living on the island into wraiths, revenants, etc. and granted literally everything that was there soul manipulation, with even the most basic revenants being able to do soul damage.
The Ruination was the ritual used in an attempt to resurrect a king's dead wife, but the spell backfired, turned her into an undead monster, and then corrupted the entire island. Though even before that Mord has soul manip on a whim.
"It was a wraith formed of pure darkness, yet its eyes burned with malice. The fire-blackened pieces of armor slammed into place around the shadowy spirit, as if drawn to a powerful lodestone, and the sorcerers dropped to their knees before their risen master. They had been promised great power for their service, but had not foreseen how they were to be rewarded.
With newfound mastery over the necromantic arts, Mordekaiser gifted the sorcerers with undeath, trapping them between life and death. They became vile liches, living corpses cursed to serve him until the end of time. "
The Ruination was the ritual used in an attempt to resurrect a king's dead wife, but the spell backfired, turned her into an undead monster, and then corrupted the entire island. Though even before that Mord has soul manip on a whim.
"It was a wraith formed of pure darkness, yet its eyes burned with malice. The fire-blackened pieces of armor slammed into place around the shadowy spirit, as if drawn to a powerful lodestone, and the sorcerers dropped to their knees before their risen master. They had been promised great power for their service, but had not foreseen how they were to be rewarded.
With newfound mastery over the necromantic arts, Mordekaiser gifted the sorcerers with undeath, trapping them between life and death. They became vile liches, living corpses cursed to serve him until the end of time. "
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I just have linked the entire fight between the Knight and Mordekaiser. It looks really different if we evaluate the entire fight. Its pretty clear to me, now having the entire context and scenery to me, that there was no Soulsteal going on with his attack - only after the Knight was dead was when manipulated the soul.
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@Raven Mord didnt steal the knight's soul then and there because he's sadistic as hell and wanted the knight to suffer while also explaining to him that he was gooing to use him to kill all of his allies
Even before the ruination soul manip on a whim.
"It was a wraith formed of pure darkness, yet its eyes burned with malice. The fire-blackened pieces of armor slammed into place around the shadowy spirit, as if drawn to a powerful lodestone, and the sorcerers dropped to their knees before their risen master. They had been promised great power for their service, but had not foreseen how they were to be rewarded.
With newfound mastery over the necromantic arts, Mordekaiser gifted the sorcerers with undeath, trapping them between life and death. They became vile liches, living corpses cursed to serve him until the end of time. "
Even before the ruination soul manip on a whim.
"It was a wraith formed of pure darkness, yet its eyes burned with malice. The fire-blackened pieces of armor slammed into place around the shadowy spirit, as if drawn to a powerful lodestone, and the sorcerers dropped to their knees before their risen master. They had been promised great power for their service, but had not foreseen how they were to be rewarded.
With newfound mastery over the necromantic arts, Mordekaiser gifted the sorcerers with undeath, trapping them between life and death. They became vile liches, living corpses cursed to serve him until the end of time. "
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Alright but why have you linked the feat as a knight having Soul Manipulation resistance when you agree that Mordekaiser didnt even attempeted to steal his soul in that scene?
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Raven...my dude...now i know youre not listening to what im saying. Its not soul manip resistance, none of what i posted is feats soul manip resistance. Everything i posted is feats of power null...
Look, I will explain everything tomorrow I'll even post the WoG stating that Demacian Steel nulls soul manip and list all the soul manip it can null but right now i need sleep as i have class in two hours so please do be kind and hold off on this for a few hours. I'd really appreciate it.
Look, I will explain everything tomorrow I'll even post the WoG stating that Demacian Steel nulls soul manip and list all the soul manip it can null but right now i need sleep as i have class in two hours so please do be kind and hold off on this for a few hours. I'd really appreciate it.
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Alright I can wait, see you later no problem.
Edit: But i did read/am listening to what you are saying tho, Your initial claim was
"
Nameless fodder knight nulling Modrekaiser's soul manip:"
emphasis on soul manipulation here, since this is an important part of the discussion.
Then I linked the entire battle and we together concluded that Mordekaiser was not even attempting to Soulmanipulate him. Your words where:
" Mord didnt steal the knight's soul then and there because he's sadistic as hell and wanted the knight to suffer"
Which means that the attack which proved to be ineffective was not a soul manipulation attack. Hence there was no power nulling of a Soul Manipulation feat.
Just wanted to add that before I forget it in a couple hours.
Edit: But i did read/am listening to what you are saying tho, Your initial claim was
"
Nameless fodder knight nulling Modrekaiser's soul manip:"
emphasis on soul manipulation here, since this is an important part of the discussion.
Then I linked the entire battle and we together concluded that Mordekaiser was not even attempting to Soulmanipulate him. Your words where:
" Mord didnt steal the knight's soul then and there because he's sadistic as hell and wanted the knight to suffer"
Which means that the attack which proved to be ineffective was not a soul manipulation attack. Hence there was no power nulling of a Soul Manipulation feat.
Just wanted to add that before I forget it in a couple hours.
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There's a lot of reading to be done here, but I have to side with Raven's arguments and the few who were providing counter evidence to Weekly's claim of Conceptual Immortality.
The Power Null of Nocturne doesn't seem like it would effect Type 9 Immortality nor Mid-Godly Regenerationn and Naraku's being tied to the jewel outside of the Dream World pretty much ensures that Nocturne is never going to put down Naraku at all. Thus I agree with Naraku winning.
The Power Null of Nocturne doesn't seem like it would effect Type 9 Immortality nor Mid-Godly Regenerationn and Naraku's being tied to the jewel outside of the Dream World pretty much ensures that Nocturne is never going to put down Naraku at all. Thus I agree with Naraku winning.
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@Imade No one is arguing power null would work on Type 9 or Mid-Godly, but Naraku also has no way past Type 8 and Mid-Godly either. Everything else Naraku has though would be nulled whereas Noc actually has mind hax that would incap Naraku.
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Neither can kill the other but only Noc can actually incap Naraku as everything Naraku has to incap things gets passively nulled
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@Demise currently there are no actual votes for Noc as you have yet to correct the OP
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Nocturne doesn't have Mid-Godly.WeeklyBattles said:
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He has Mid-Low instead of Mid-Godly
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@Imade Yes he does? Look at his profile
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The hell?? Who removed his regen?
Ive fixed the profile
Ive fixed the profile
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@Zack I fixed it
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How exactly does Noc have Mid-Godly? I don't remember him coming back from being erased.
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There is no misinformation about nocturne, only a misunderstanding about the difference between resistances and passive power nullificationZensum said:
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He and every demon in LoL can regenerate from a specific conceptAssaltwaffle said:
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@Weekly
Woah, is that on their universe profiles? I don't remember the demons being that strong.
Woah, is that on their universe profiles? I don't remember the demons being that strong.
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Weekly have you just updated a Characters profile Regenerationn from Mid-Low to Mid-Godly without any form of content revision or otherwise blog post explaining the reasoning?
I am sorry this is not something which is applicable. Can you prepare a CRT thread to explain the changes?
I am sorry this is not something which is applicable. Can you prepare a CRT thread to explain the changes?
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@Assalt Yes and it was backed up by the devs, its been a thing for years at this point 
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I'll read over his LoLUniverse biography and see what I find.
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No i fixed a removal that was done without a CRT. I dont know who removed Mid-Godly but they need to make a CRT to have it removed, not the other way around.
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