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Nocturne vs. Naraku

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Lux obliterated him and he's still alive, Tahm Kench has been killed multiple times by Kalista and he's still alive, Evelynn started fading from existence when she stopped having a constant source of pain to feed on and came back when she started feeding again, yes they fulfill the requirements.

Im trying to find the page but that's literally a screenshot of all of Eternum Nocturne's lore
 
Also theyre not abstract beings, they just have type 8 immortality so why youre treating them like theyre abstract i dont know
 
You claimed above that Nocture is the Concept of Nightmares so.... either ways I suppose that's cool for Type 8 then

And I'm honestly doubting the credibility of the scan because it seems to be the forum board where it's posted rather than it being from the official website page of Noc. You can even see the date (12-05-2012) and the user (Neeksnaman) who posted it.
 
@Lancer I know full well of the new page. I was only pointing out that it has always been a requirement
 
I never claimed Nocturne was the concept of nightmares i said he relies on the concept of nightmares to exist, big big BIG difference

Bruh thats the League of Legends website, the date the skin was released, and a developer's post
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Before i respond to that im just going to point out that Naraku isnt killing Nocturne without conceptual manipulation due to Nocturne being the concept of Nightmares
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┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬» If it's a developer then it's cool then. Unless it's a random player making skins/mods and stating that.
 
Yes Naraku cant kill Nocturne because due to Nocturne's existence relying on the concept of nightmares. If i said something else then i mispoke and i apologize.
 
Are there any corresponding scans for him resisting Power Nullification or Soul manipulation, particular outside of his Dream realm?

Although even if he would have: like I said before, Naraku has effectively soulmanipulated someone who previously not only withstood soul manipulation but whose soul has autonomously erected its own barrier. Yet Naraku was able to twist her - albeit briefly.

"Killing" is not Narakus only way of dealing with Nocturne, whereas Nocturnes abilities are severely limited. Especially now that we fully understood that his Dream Realm powers work exclusively in the Dream Realm, from what I understood - and he cant draw Naraku there.
 
He nulled all the powers of dozens of Summoners and his shadow minions cut through Garen Crownguard's magic nullifying armor, Naraku's power null would get nullified, same with his soul manip. I mean we've already determined that using Dream Realm Nocturne in this scenario is pointless so i thought we switched to Eternum so we can have an actual match.

Nocturne would nullify said soul manipulation my guy, Naraku has no listed resistance to power null on his profile.

Naraku really doesnt have any way to deal with Nocturne. Having limited abilities doesnt matter when those abilities are far more potent than what your opponent has to offer, and it gives a more concise look at exactly how they would act and what they would do in a fight.
 
Naraku really should have a resistance to sleep manipulation if he has a resistance to falling asleep and dreaming though, just saying
 
That said im going to sleep so please save any and all questions for approximately four hours when i'll be back on
 
Summoners don't exist anymore so I don't know why you keep using it like it means anything. And this is not Eternum Nocturne, as the OP specified Dream Realm Nocturne.
 
Nocturne doesnt have any current lore other than the lore from when the summoners were canon so until he gets updated lore yes he can
 
@Regis So you didnt read any of the thread huh? Raven explained in great detail why its physically impossible for the match to work with Dream Realm Nocturne due to how Naraku's powers work as Naraku would instantly self-BFR
 
@Weekly, nope, he can't. The League doesn't exist anymore. The summoners doesn't exist. Thats a verse-wide retcon. Noc was retconned too, his old and outdated lore is non-canon now.
 
@Schro Its been agreed on for months now that until the new lore comes out we have no choice but to use the old lore for characters who have yet to be updated.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Schro Its been agreed on for months now that until the new lore comes out we have no choice but to use the old lore for characters who have yet to be updated.
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It really hasn't given all the short blurbs on PBE made their way into the game and Universe.
 
@Regis Okay then Noc wins via Naraku self-BFRing due to his mind's tie with the Shikon Jewel removing him from the Dream Realm, making this a mismatch. Or are you actually going to read what Raven said to understand why this match is still open?
 
RegisNex1232 said:
It really hasn't given all the short blurbs on PBE made their way into the game and Universe.
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Regis im sorry but just because you think its correct doesnt mean everyone else agrees with you. You tried to pull this with Jax, you tried to pull it with Lee, you tried to pull it with Aatrox, and now youre trying to pull it with Noc. Just stop man, youre embarrassing yourself.
 
Okay then Noc wins via, as Raven explained, Naraku instantly self-BFRing due to his mind's tie to the Shikon Jewel removing him from the Dream Realm, making this a mismatch. Want me to close it?
 
From what you linked, Garen Crownguard merely has the ability to project his own soul.

Going by his profile the following is listed: "Soul Manipulation (Able to summon his soul as a manifestation of his power),

Same with the Summoners: " Soul Manipulation (Can create summons with artificial souls)""

Meaning there is no interaction with any form of third party soul. How can Nocturne having Soulmanipulation resistance when he has no feat of someone actively trying to manipulate his soul? All what other characters of the verse have done is conjuring their own souls.

To have Soul Manipulation resistance he would need a feat of actively preventing, canceling, withstanding an attempt to twist his very own soul.

For example, to give you an example what level of Soul Manipulation resistance Naraku has dealt with here are some scans:

At the beginning of the series, without being aware of her spiritual powers Kagome withstood getting her soul drawn out of her body - due to her soul erecting a barrier - and even after her soul finally was dragged out she called it back in.

Later in the series when Kagome was stronger and could actively use parts of her spiritual powerher soul got not only stole but even sucked in a pocket dimension inside a mirror - yet she was so powerfull that even while her soul was in another dimension she managed to force it back

Yet despite all of thatNaraku was able to twist her

-> Although she got her consciousness back after some time and later even broke free - but this shows what level of fortitude you need to have to withstand Narakus Soul Manipulation.

And I dont see anything Nocturne has to rival that.

Edit: I dont understand the idea behind the Self-BFR argument tho.
 
@Raven lol wrong Garen, youre looking at God King Garen, not regular Garen. Regular Garen doesnt have any soul based abilities he wears armor that nullifies magic, armor that is particularly more potent in its nullifying abilities than the likes of a nameless knight whose armor nullified Mordekaiser's powers.

I think you misunderstand, Nocturne doesnt have a resistance to soul manip, he passively nullifies it outright so it doesnt affect him and passively nullifies those trying to use it to create summons.
 
Well Garen has 3 keys, the very first one or second one, which is regular Garen or Warrior Garen, has the ability to manifest his own soul as a showcase of his power. The other 2 keys merely have the addiont of the power being stronger to a much greater extent.

Neither of the other keys adds an ability where he actively manipulates a third parties soul. Can you pinpoint me to it if I overlooked it?

And like I said, I am not even sure how that would matter seeing as Naraku has showcased a very high level display of Soul Manipulation even against people who previously withstood getting their Soul manipulated.
 
@Raven Youre not understanding what im saying; Nocturne does not have soul manipulation resistance, he has passive power null. The power null is the reason why soul manip wouldnt work on Nocturne.
 
I am sorry but I am not really sold on the Power Null argument at all to be honest. From all the profiles you linked there is nothing which suggests that Nocturne has ever had to deal with such exotic abilitiy traits. And has successfully power nulled them.Power Nullification usually is a powerful tool when, due to verse equalisation, the verses form of energy are considered the same (Chie is Magic etc.) which in this specific case would be "Youki" is equalised with "Magic".

However this would only mean Nocturne would have the ability to power null basic abilities which are powered by Youki/Magic - and even that to me is a questionmark, seeing how we have so little information on Nocturnes Power Null. Is there any form of visual feat or something you can get?

Stating he can power null the more abstract abilities which are not powered by Youki, like his Immortality, or like his MidGodly Regenerationn, his SoulManipulation or even his Acausality is too much of a reach in my eyes.

Basically so far the argument of him being able to deal with MidGodly or with Type 9 have been proven unfruitful. Same with the Dream Realm argument - and same with him having active resistance to Soul Manipulation.

It all hangs on this little thread which is the ambigous "power null" for everything, without any corresponding feats to validate it.

-

I just dont see it enough for Nocturne to defeat Naraku or defend himself against some of the complex abilities from him. You see it different, I dont think we will see eye to eye in this debate. thats just how debates sometimes go.
 
No, there are no visual feats, only written ones

I never once said he can null immortality or regen, on the contrary i explicitly said he CANT null them which would force him to go for incap via mind manip and i never even brought up acausality. He can null soul manip though, nameless characters with far inferior power null have done so.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Heavens That's not the only quote, thats just one of them, there are multiple that prove he relies on the concept of nightmares to exist as well as the fact that all demons in LoL rely on a certain concept in order to exist
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I mean that doesn't really strengthen your argument, it would be better if you posted the quotes/linked the CRT with them
 
I just read the beginning of the debate, yeha you changed your stance on Nocturne being able to permanently down a type 9 and mid godly after a while, now seeing it not possible - which is what debates are for in my eyes. The same thing happened with him being the concept of nightmared which then turned to him apparently just existing as long as the concept of nightmares also exist. Debates are not a stationary "this is my opinion and thats the end of it" thing and I am actually quite happy that you go out of your way to change your stance on some of the things said.

I guess the only thing where a change in opinions will not happen is for the power null argument.

So my idea is that instead of circling with each other back and forth we may just turn to other people who may have questions on the match.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Lux obliterated him and he's still alive, Tahm Kench has been killed multiple times by Kalista and he's still alive, Evelynn started fading from existence when she stopped having a constant source of pain to feed on and came back when she started feeding again, yes they fulfill the requirements.
Click to expand...
^ Are you talking about this? It definitely doesn't prove conceptual immortality, and the last one looks like a weakness if anything
 
@Schro ALL information for Noc is outdated, its because there is no up to date information for Noc, what dont you get about that?
 
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