No Game No Life Discussion Thread

[Phoenks]

Anti-feat in the sense of the dimensional scale or is it only anti-feat if it's about R>F?

Actually, scratch everything I said.

I want to see what the statement you're referring to is first.

Nothing about the E-Bombs exact creation was even mentioned in Volume 6, to my knowledge.

It's just stated to be capable of killing an Old Deus (physical manifestation).

 

[Lynieryz]

Learning of the E-bomb, a weapon that detonated the ether of the Old Dei, came as a great shock. Even more so if it really was the Dwarves who managed to create a weapon so lethal.

↑↑↑This comes from Practical War Game and these from volume 10↓↓↓

“Yes, Master. To detonate inactive essence… Truly, the E-bomb is a work of art.”

“I’m told it’s a conceptual rewrite machine, which repurposes inactive essence used in the E-bomb…the materialized fossil of a divine concept. It uses seal rites to alter the underlying concept. So it depends on false essence, it does…”

 

[Phoenks]

Yeah I don't know why this would be an anti-feat though.

I don't think that the "ether" or the Old Deus avatars are R>F. At maximum, their true conceptual forms are High 1-B+

Tbh though I'm still struggling to understand what "ether" really even is.

Also, it seems the E-Bomb stuff does in fact just involve conceptual manipulation to create superweapons. So if anything I'd say that's just a massive feat for the Dwarves being capable of doing/creating such a thing.

 

[Lynieryz]

Yeah I don't know why this would be an anti-feat though.

I don't think that the "ether" or the Old Deus avatars are R>F. At maximum, their true conceptual forms are High 1-B+

Tbh though I'm still struggling to understand what "ether" really even is.

Also, it seems the E-Bomb stuff does in fact just involve conceptual manipulation to create superweapons. So if anything I'd say that's just a massive feat for the Dwarves being capable of doing/creating such a thing.

I think it's because I didn't explain that the whole dimensional scale thing would be for the materialization of the Old Deus and not for their true form.

“Holou, you said you’re ‘polygenetic,’ right? Like, how many?”
“I-it dependeth on the definition… But we might suppose that Holou’s nuclear coordinates lie on 13 + iR variable dimensions—”
“Exactly! Like, over eleven dimensions! Literally an idol from another dimension!”

 

[Phoenks]

I think it's because I didn't explain that the whole dimensional scale thing would be for the materialization of the Old Deus and not for their true form.

Btw do you have the Japanese raws for this. What is poly genetic even supposed to mean exactly??

 

[Lynieryz]

Btw do you have the Japanese raws for this.

I don't have it.

What is poly genetic even supposed to mean exactly??

1. Biology relating to or exhibiting polygenesis 2. having many or several different sources of origin

That she simultaneously exists in all these dimensions.

 

[Phoenks]

I don't have it.


That she simultaneously exists in all these dimensions.

If that's the case, she is easily High 1-B+ without any discussion even needed.

Just being present on infinite / uncountable axes, regardless of if you even extend infinitely across them all, is still going to get you to those tiers.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I am still hoping for an anime season 2...

 

[Phoenks]

I've got the official Japanese text. I would very much like to get a translator to give their take on it.

 

[Phoenks]

@Lynieryz I got @Wankbreaker to translate the important bits.

He came up with this:

Walking around, aimlessly talking about things defined by Sora and Shirou.
In other words, aiming to be the top, the perfect idol!

"Our goal is! The unrealistic spirituality of the second dimension and!!! The uncreated vitality of the third dimension!! Combined, not 2.5 dimensions, not 3.5 or 4.0, but... something!"

Sora, who had been speaking passionately, suddenly stopped and turned to ask Horou.

"Horou, you mentioned 'multidimensional intelligence,' right? How many dimensions?"

"It, it depends on the definition, butーassuming the core coordinates of the 'essence' lies on a 13+iR fluctuation dimensionー"

"Exactly! An idol that has literally surpassed even 11 dimensions and is on a completely different level!" Though it may sound like the latest physics from our original world, just take it as reference material and let it flow by!

Sora continues to boldly proclaim this noble idealー


There are a couple of differences.

For one, instead of "polygenetic," it's been replaced by "multidimensional intelligence." Not sure what to make of that.

Also, "essence" is mentioned to be what has those coordinates.

Still, unfortunately 13 + iR is not very much elaborated on.

 

[Lynieryz]

I just made a post in the translations thread, I hadn't seen your message, well we can see if anyone else is interested in translating just to be sure.

Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)

"身体能力" translates to "physical abilities" or "physical strength." The kanji "能力" generally means "ability" or "capability”. so, the latter. The Scan I sent is different from the one in the chapter Do these little letters help to tell you for sure what he is referring to? Scan: Sorry for...

vsbattles.com

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

It's just stated to be capable of killing an Old Deus (physical manifestation).

Not only that, its able to destroy both their manifestation and their true self. Thats why, it's Ether Bomb.

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

Btw do you have the Japanese raws for this. What is poly genetic even supposed to mean exactly??

Here

「帆楼、たしか〝多元知性〟って言ってたよな。何次元？」
「て、定義次第、じゃが──『神髄』の核座標は13＋iR変動次元上と仮て──」
「そう！ もはや11次元すら突破した、文字通りに次元違いのアイドルである！」

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

↑↑↑This comes from Practical War Game and these from volume 10↓↓↓

The first one is e-bomb and the sec one is spirit-arms. They are different.

 

[Lynieryz]

Yes, later I have to see THE EXPLANATION OF THE DWARVES' INVENTIONS [E-BOMB, ETC.] because they use inactive Old Deus as energy and this can be an anti-feat if the inactive ones are comparable to the active ones.

Learning of the E-bomb, a weapon that detonated the ether of the Old Dei, came as a great shock. Even more so if it really was the Dwarves who managed to create a weapon so lethal.

↑↑↑This comes from Practical War Game and these from volume 10↓↓↓

“Yes, Master. To detonate inactive essence… Truly, the E-bomb is a work of art.”

“I’m told it’s a conceptual rewrite machine, which repurposes inactive essence used in the E-bomb…the materialized fossil of a divine concept. It uses seal rites to alter the underlying concept. So it depends on false essence, it does…”

I’m told it’s a conceptual rewrite machine, WHICH REPURPOSES INACTIVE ESSENCE USED IN THE E-BOMB…

The first one is e-bomb and the sec one is spirit-arms. They are different.

And?

I can see that your interpretations continue to be incredible as always. Good morning to you too Sata, it's been a while since I last saw you.

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

E-Bomb, etc

My bad, didnt rlly catch everything well, i had just woken up at that time

I can see that your interpretations continue to be incredible as always.

Oh huh

Good morning to you too Sata, it's been a while since I last saw you.

Hello there, nice to see u again

 

[Lynieryz]

Not only that, its able to destroy both their manifestation and their true self. Thats why, it's Ether Bomb.

This is explicitly wrong, first of all the claim that an E-Bomb is capable of destroying the Ether of any Old Deus is wrong as dozens were used against Artosh and his Ether was not destroyed. It was necessary to use the power of all the E-Bombs, Áka Si Anses, Far Cries and the Godly Smite twice (the first was natural and the second was through Ex-Machina's technology) to destroy Artosh's Ether and even with all this it is stated that this would not affect Artosh's true form and that he would already create another Ether in one hundred years, which we know did not happen because Tet prohibited Artosh's return.

However powerful Avant Heim might have been, Áka Si Anse would kill any Phantasma, and the E-bomb would kill any Old Deus. There was no victory to be had for Artosh in a preemptive attack.
—Was what the Union had been led to believe, but that wasn’t reality. Artosh’s Godly Smite was of such a scale that it would trigger the collective firepower of every faction. So the result—both for Camp Artosh and the Union—would be mutual destruction. In the end, Artosh’s forces were unlikely to win by attacking preemptively. At the outside, ten years—before the War went into sudden death.

The god of war’s peerless, singular blow—the Godly Smite—pitted itself against the doomsday weapons of every race most proficient in carnage, each onslaught capable of razing the continent. The attacks collided in a firestorm, yet were incapable of canceling out one another… Instead, it whirled like a vortex. Sparkling radiant, a power that eclipsed natural order. A catastrophe that would slay heaven and earth and still rage. Áka Si Anse—a rite that detonated the cores of Phantasmas, releasing their unbridled power. An attack designed to fell multiple Phantasmas in one strike. Elf had fired every blast they had—eighteen rites in all. At the same time, Dwarf launched their E-bombs, comparable in their capacity for devastation—twelve of them. Meanwhile, the eight Dragonias fulfilled their contracts by sacrificing their lives to contribute eight Far Cries—
“To be undeterred by this—what are Old Dei?!”
The Old Deus Artosh—indeed, his power was fearsome and divine. One might also mention that Áka Si Anse operated under the protection of the Elves’ creator—Kainas, god of the forest—as a 186-fold rite, likewise divine. So why was their relative scale like the difference between heaven and earth? The sight of the planet crumbling before her eyes evoked in Think’s mind the sound of Artosh’s answer.
Know your place, O schemers of dust. Writhe. Squirm.
Learn at last, O worms of the earth, that, rail as ye may, ye may never reach the heavens.

Appearing out of thin air, a gun the size of a small tower pierced the earth. The vortex of violence they’d just witnessed, portending the end of the world—the combined energy of the Godly Smite, Áka Si Anse, the E-bombs, and the Far Cries, all intermingled—over 70 percent of that energy had been reproduced in this object. Riku alone—no, any number of people—would likely have been unable to lift it. Towering several times Riku’s height, it was too gigantic to be rightly called a gun… It was more like a stake. The “gun”—muzzle thrust in the ground, barrel standing on its own—quietly waited for someone to pull its trigger. That is, it waited for the signal…for Riku to draw it. His eyes black and unreflective, Riku gazed at it, mute and expressionless, until the Ex Machina broke the silence.
“Report: Well, then, unit will return to battlefront, so, with that—”
It turned to leave, but a question from Riku stopped it.
“Just now…making this… How many tools…broke?”
“—Answer: Twenty-one clusters input. Five units remaining. Four thousand eight hundred two units lost.”
“…Five units remaining, huh?”
“Affirmation: Do you have any other questions?”
“Not a question so much as a confirmation… I just wait for you guys to strip Artosh’s ether, then I pull this guy’s trigger and pierce the core of the planet—and the Suniaster will manifest. That’s it, right?”
“*Affirmation: Neither Artosh nor anyone else will die. Rules upheld.”

“A weapon that emulates, reproduces, and focuses the energy—I’m sure Ex Machina can make one, right?”
“Affirmative. If twenty-one of thirty-two clusters are input, at least seventy percent reproduction is possible.”
Moving his hand to his chest to grab the lock that creaked, Riku continued.
“And will that be enough to pierce the core of the planet and materialize the Suniaster?”
“Affirmative. If four thousand eight hundred and seven units are sacrificed to converge seventy percent of the original power and fire it through the core, the source of the spirit corridors will fail—erupting with sufficient magnitude to manifest the Suniaster.”
Which means a death sentence for five thousand of Schwi’s—my wife’s—breth*
Riku shook off the flash of sentiment and once more chanted as if ripping his chest.
—Lock it. And he reiterated as if to remind himself:
“‘The Rules’ do not prohibit the destruction of tools—just like I threw away my arm.”
“Correct.”
With that, Riku posed the final question.
“Can the remaining twenty-one clusters neutralize Artosh without killing him?”
“—Affirmative.”
……
“The Godly Smite is a strike that aggregates all the Flügel’s Heavenly Smites and Artosh’s power into a single blast. The Flügel will be neutralized, and Artosh will be weakened. In this window, we shall strip Artosh—of his ether.”
“…An Old Deus stripped of his ether is likely to be deactivated for one hundred years. If we achieve this and then bore through the source of the spirit corridors, it is almost certain—that the Suniaster will manifest in your hand, Spieler.”

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

This is explicitly wrong

The destructive process of the E-Bomb is described like nuclear fusion, meaning it destroys down to the "core" level. Because of that, its range can extend into higher dimensions and reach the nuclear (ether). That's why I said it can destroy Old Deus both in their physical ether (Avatar) and metaphysical ether (Concept).

-Bomb is capable of destroying the Ether of any Old Deus is wrong as dozens were used against Artosh and his Ether was not destroyed

It's not exactly like that, because even though the Union’s attacks are intertwined, Artosh's attacks still outperformed them and almost pushed it to the planet’s surface (thanks to Umweig for deflecting it).

It’s unclear how Machina managed to deal with Artosh because it happened off-narrative, and there's only a moment showing they succeeded, though even Machina doesn’t know how they managed it (volume 9).

he would already create another Ether in one hundred years, which we know did not happen because Tet prohibited Artosh's return.

Yeah, right.

 

[Lynieryz]

The destructive process of the E-Bomb is described like nuclear fusion, meaning it destroys down to the "core" level. Because of that, its range can extend into higher dimensions and reach the nuclear (ether). That's why I said it can destroy Old Deus both in their physical ether (Avatar) and metaphysical ether (Concept).

The conceptual form of a Old Deus is not in their avatars, if they had been, when Artosh's avatar was killed the very concept of strength would have been destroyed along with it.

It's not exactly like that, because even though the Union’s attacks are intertwined, Artosh's attacks still outperformed them and almost pushed it to the planet’s surface (thanks to Umweig for deflecting it).

That's exactly the point, 12 E-Bombs are irrelevant against Godly Smite, Artosh withstood Two Godly Smites, the first one he threw hit him too and Ex-Machinas replicated Godly Smite at 70% of its strength and used it against Artosh.

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

The conceptual form of a Old Deus is not in their avatars, if they had been, when Artosh's avatar was killed the very concept of strength would have been destroyed along with it.

Yeah, that's exactly right. But the ether that exists physically also seems to be tied to physical reality. For example, in volume 10, when the inactive ether was reactivated, specifically the "ether of big b**bs," it seemed to redefine reality, creating a reality where women have large breasts.

Ex-Machinas replicated Godly Smite at 70% of its strength and used it against Artosh

Can you quote when Machina used Godly Smite to attack Artosh?
Because I don’t remember it that way. I thought they were just adapting to the space-time distortion caused by Artosh’s presence every second. I didn’t see them taking offensive action (at least at that moment), because they just analyzing Artosh’s ether. What you quoted earlier was just a plan from Machina when they hadn't invaded Artosh's throne yet, so I didn't really see what you said here.

 

[Lynieryz]

when the inactive ether was reactivated, specifically the "ether of big b**bs," it seemed to redefine reality, creating a reality where women have large breasts.

You are confusing things, the inactive Ether is the conceptual form of a Old Deus that has not yet fulfilled the requirements to become sentient, It is not the same Ether that is used in the sense of avatar.

Can you quote when Machina used Godly Smite to attack Artosh?
Because I don’t remember it that way. I thought they were just adapting to the space-time distortion caused by Artosh’s presence every second. I didn’t see them taking offensive action (at least at that moment), because they just analyzing Artosh’s ether. What you quoted earlier was just a plan from Machina when they hadn't invaded Artosh's throne yet, so I didn't really see what you said here.

You're confusing the scenes, I'm referring to the shot at the Earth's core that materialized the Suniaster, the Ex-Machinas made it through 70% of the total force of the union's attacks and the Godly Smite. They used this against Artosh.

“A weapon that emulates, reproduces, and focuses the energy—I’m sure Ex Machina can make one, right?”
“Affirmative. If twenty-one of thirty-two clusters are input, at least seventy percent reproduction is possible.”
Moving his hand to his chest to grab the lock that creaked, Riku continued.
“And will that be enough to pierce the core of the planet and materialize the Suniaster?”
“Affirmative. If four thousand eight hundred and seven units are sacrificed to converge seventy percent of the original power and fire it through the core, the source of the spirit corridors will fail—erupting with sufficient magnitude to manifest the Suniaster.”
Which means a death sentence for five thousand of Schwi’s—my wife’s—breth*
Riku shook off the flash of sentiment and once more chanted as if ripping his chest.
—Lock it. And he reiterated as if to remind himself:
“‘The Rules’ do not prohibit the destruction of tools—just like I threw away my arm.”
“Correct.”
With that, Riku posed the final question.
“Can the remaining twenty-one clusters neutralize Artosh without killing him?”
“—Affirmative.”
……
“The Godly Smite is a strike that aggregates all the Flügel’s Heavenly Smites and Artosh’s power into a single blast. The Flügel will be neutralized, and Artosh will be weakened. In this window, we shall strip Artosh—of his ether.”
“…An Old Deus stripped of his ether is likely to be deactivated for one hundred years. If we achieve this and then bore through the source of the spirit corridors, it is almost certain—that the Suniaster will manifest in your hand, Spieler.”

Appearing out of thin air, a gun the size of a small tower pierced the earth. The vortex of violence they’d just witnessed, portending the end of the world—the combined energy of the Godly Smite, Áka Si Anse, the E-bombs, and the Far Cries, all intermingled—over 70 percent of that energy had been reproduced in this object. Riku alone—no, any number of people—would likely have been unable to lift it. Towering several times Riku’s height, it was too gigantic to be rightly called a gun… It was more like a stake. The “gun”—muzzle thrust in the ground, barrel standing on its own—quietly waited for someone to pull its trigger. That is, it waited for the signal…for Riku to draw it. His eyes black and unreflective, Riku gazed at it, mute and expressionless, until the Ex Machina broke the silence.
“Report: Well, then, unit will return to battlefront, so, with that—”
It turned to leave, but a question from Riku stopped it.
“Just now…making this… How many tools…broke?”
“—Answer: Twenty-one clusters input. Five units remaining. Four thousand eight hundred two units lost.”
“…Five units remaining, huh?”
“Affirmation: Do you have any other questions?”
“Not a question so much as a confirmation… I just wait for you guys to strip Artosh’s ether, then I pull this guy’s trigger and pierce the core of the planet—and the Suniaster will manifest. That’s it, right?”
“*Affirmation: Neither Artosh nor anyone else will die. Rules upheld.”

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

the inactive Ether is the conceptual form of a Old Deus that has not yet fulfilled the requirements to become sentient

Then this would just be a mere concept rather than essence or inactive essence. Narratively, inactive essence refer to fossilized old dei i.e. the corpses of the gods.

They used this against Artosh

Still don't see it being used against Artosh

 

[Phoenks]

@Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl to answer your question on my wall, I have read volumes 1-6, and am currently on Volume 7 after they start the game against unnamed Deus.

However, it has been put on an indefinite hold for the moment, because I got back into Re: Zero...

Sorry to cheat on the series like that, and so quickly, but I really want to catch back up to my favorite novel of all time so NGNL gonna have to take a backseat for now.

 

[Lynieryz]

Then this would just be a mere concept rather than essence or inactive essence. Narratively, inactive essence refer to fossilized old dei i.e. the corpses of the gods.

Both are the same thing, the corpse of an Old Deus is just an Old Deus who had his avatar destroyed and ceased to qualify to be sentient.

Still don't see it being used against Artosh

Yeah, I got the order of events mixed up, I remembered the weapon being used on Artosh but it was only used after the Ex-Machinas destroyed Artosh's Ether in an unknown way.

Stalemartyr

The Stalemartyr (ステイル・マーター, Suteiru Mātā), also known as True Epigraphy: Planet Killer (真典・星殺し, Shinden Hoshigoroshi) is a weapon created by Ex-Machina using the Lösen algorithm, to fulfill Riku and Schwi's wish to end the war. It was designed to pierce the planet core and force the Suniaster to...

no-game-no-life.fandom.com

But it doesn't change my point, which is that E-Bombs are not capable of killing an Old Deus, Artosh himself treats 12 E-Bombs as nothing, Jibril who has a small percentage of Artosh's power is far above one.(Jibril's 1% Heavenly Smite is above E-Bomb)

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

I have read volumes 1-6, and am currently on Volume 7

I see, I thought you had already finished v7.

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

Both are the same thing, the corpse of an Old Deus is just an Old Deus who had his avatar destroyed and ceased to qualify to be sentient.

I mean, even though they’re physically erased from existence, they’re still sentient. They just don’t have any influence over the physical realm anymore. Infact, they’re just kinda floating around in a metaphysical sense or state, kinda like how Tet was before he got his ether. So, basically it’s not like they’re really gone.

Yeah, I got the order of events mixed up, I remembered the weapon being used on Artosh but it was only used after the Ex-Machinas destroyed Artosh's Ether in an unknown way.

Right, that's why I was confused.

E-Bombs are not capable of killing an Old God

The fact that the E-Bombs didn’t pose a threat to Artosh doesn’t mean those bombs are weak or useless against an Old Deus. It’s just that Artosh is on another level entirely, as he’s literally the very manifestation of strength—he's conceptually "the strongest". So, yeah, the bombs weren’t a big deal to him, but that’s just because he’s so powerful, not because the bombs are nothing to any Old Deus.

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

Kamiya even said:

みんな冷静に考えるんだ。髄爆と虚空第零加護。全天翼種の天撃を束ねた神撃と一応拮抗したんやで。相手が悪過ぎただけで、本来の髄爆・虚空第零加護ってジブリールの天撃とか鼻で笑う威力やで。
Everyone, think calmly. The E-Bomb and Void Zero Protection (Aka si Anse). They were able to somewhat rival the Godly Smite, which is the combined force of the Heavenly Smites of all Flugel. The opponent was just too strong, but originally, the power of the E-Bomb and Void Zero Protection is something that would make Jibril's Heavenly Smite look laughable.

 

[Lynieryz]

Kamiya even said:

Pretty insignificant when volume 10 simply exists and makes Jibril's Heavenly Smite at 1% of its power superior to an E-Bomb.

The fact that the E-Bombs didn’t pose a threat to Artosh doesn’t mean those bombs are weak or useless against an Old Deus. It’s just that Artosh is on another level entirely, as he’s literally the very manifestation of strength—he's conceptually "the strongest". So, yeah, the bombs weren’t a big deal to him, but that’s just because he’s so powerful, not because the bombs are nothing to any Old Deus.

There is no logical world where an E-Bomb means anything to an Old Deus, unless you believe that Jibril is stronger than the Old Deus.

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

Pretty insignificant

Meh, you kind of, a person who just ignores what the author set up and goes with ur own interpretation. It's not significant as well, of what you believe. It is what it is.

volume 10

Jibril's Heavenly Smite at 1% of its power superior to an E-Bomb

Never heard of what youre saying. Post some quotes, at least.

 

[Lynieryz]

Never heard of what youre saying. Post some quotes, at least.

One percent of Jibril's Heavenly Smite powers Til's Divine Spirit Arm.

"To be more precise, it is a spirit-arm expansion connected to her hammer, on which she engraved my one-percent Heavenly Smite."

Between that and the Heavenly Strike, Veig was sure now there were some spirits involved far outside the regulations. He raged at their perceived violation of the rules.

……Ha. His opponents laughed in unison. They knew it: Dwarves were the perfect negative examples. After all, they were just half-right. Just as he guessed that the stage itself was their machine, but that wasn't even close to enough. On Sora's lap sat Shiro—and on her lap sat a girl whose face was scrunched in pain, but who still sneered with fearless irony—

"Chieftain… You ask that now? I couldn't even start up our first machine without boosting, I couldn't."

It seemed he had still overlooked the trick in Shiro's arms. Yes, it was the murmuring of Til, the real trick, most impossible of all—

"To begin with…I can't even use magic without boosting, I can't."

*

«*Huhhh?!»

—that made Veig cry out in long-delayed recognition. Sora chuckled. Yes, a Dwarf so great as Veig probably couldn't have imagined such a trick. Til, by nature, couldn't even use magic, much less operate a supermassive spirit arm. For Til—

was as smooth as a dolphin!!!

Dwarves used catalysts because of the spiritual overload caused by their mithril—to synchronize externally. But Til didn't have that mithril!! She wasn't subject to such overload, or even load for that matter!! That was why she used boosting… Yes…the hidden truth that astonished Jibril when Til used her shift. Til couldn't use magic without boosting. Conversely, that meant she could if she used boosting…

…It meant she could use boosting. For example: She could chain boost to boost on the chain reaction of explosions of the huge number of demi-shift anchors they'd planted, funnel the spirits into her hammer on which she'd engraved a Rite of Heavenly Smiting, and synchronize it into her body! With the vast amount of spirits thus summoned under her control, she could operate this leviathan assemblage of parts, this scrap on the stage on which she'd engraved seal rites…!!

… Yes, if a normal Dwarf tried this, they'd blow right up. It would be impossible and meaningless. Just as Til said, it would be as perverse an idea as building an underwater breathing apparatus for a fish. But for such an abnormal dwarf, it was both possible and essential. For Til—

was as smooth as a dolphin!!!

The transmission to Sora roared full of naked rage. Understandable. One percent of Jibril's power—the power to run a supermassive machine like that—was as reckless as pouring rocket fuel into an automobile. Therefore…

"…Didn't you say no mercy? A man's word isn't worth much these days, huh?"

«*!!»

…Sora saw that Veig was thinking of taking a bullet and losing the game for Til's sake, and Sora stopped him, making a face. If Til died, it would probably spell death for Sora and Shiro, who were holding her, too. Til was barely conscious, but still she held firm to her hammer and smiled.

—Veig meant to lose intentionally.

This man didn't seem to understand what a humiliation that would be—!!

"To hell with your patronizing sympathy!! This is a trap—there's no place for you to hide and no room for you to choose!!"

That same 1% can be used to power an E-Bomb.

—Sora howled at the shell of the E-bomb, which glowed like a star to announce it was ready for blast-off.
“…Generally speaking, things in the world don’t go the way you imagine…”
Just as they had sailed for India and mistakenly arrived in the New World; as they had tried to prove everything with mathematics and mistakenly refuted their mathematics; as they had built rockets to reach the moon and mistakenly dropped them on Earth…
…As far as humans were concerned, perfection was a waste of time. They’d mess it up anyway. To seek mere perfection wasn’t going to do it. Therefore—!!
“Your thinking is too damn small!! If you want to fly, you’re not gonna have a chance unless you have the guts to go past the damn moon and crash into Mars by mistake!!”
Well…yes…?
“Even if you get up and down backward, you might be able to go through the planet to the sky at the other side, right? *”
You might end up with a result better than perfect, right?
«…You fockin’ with me? Shit—»
A man born with natural talent… A bird that flew by sensibility alone…transmitted back with a sense of awe at the unknown he’d never had before—or not in a long time at least.
Indeed…they couldn’t use the E-bomb. So he didn’t know what it was they were on the verge of launching. He didn’t know what it was to accomplish. He didn’t even know a thing about the heights where his niece floated now.
But even so! There was one thing he was sure about. He howled with a longing he’d never felt.
«So you’re saying you don’t know what the hell will happen. You’re bloody daft, aren’t ya?!»
If it might be the case that Til couldn’t take it—!! That instant, Veig’s unit appeared to get blown away and then vanished from sight. One soul raced forth through the air, with maneuvers uncapturable by Sora’s eyes, or by the venue’s cameras. It left no trace; the unit broken down, it raced past its limits, riding the force of a fist.
—I’ll overcome even that—
Detecting the single strike to end it, Sora smirked and answered inwardly.
—Yeah. That’s right! That’s how we live, as fools incapable of anything but straying and failing and erring. Bet it’s a breath of fresh air for smarty-pants jerks like you who live with all trial and no error, huh?
What’s gonna happen? How the hell would I know?!
“That’s why you gotta test that shit! That’s what we idiots call science!”
Sora sneered and activated the contents of the E-bomb in the muzzle, and a moment later Veig unleashed one soulful strike that pierced the shell.

The DSA scales above an E-Bomb.

Up there was just one thing they'd never seen before. Til picked up on their bafflement.
"…Oh… Th-there is one…exception to what you were saying, there is…that…"
Looking up with them…Til explained calmly.
"…That is a work from after the war—Lóni Drauvnir's posthumous masterpiece, it is."
So—the final work of a genius unprecedented in the history of Dwarf. No—
"The ultimate spirit arm, which they say no one can ever outdo…it is."
—the be-all, end-all, a work no one had been able to equal in six thousand years.
—Hmm… His masterpiece, even leaving the E-bomb behind? Sora's face twitched as he laughed at the majesty of the giant humanoid machine before his eyes.
"…So, what… That giant robot is a spirit arm…?"
"Well, a spirit arm, essentially, is a single-operator machine, a system that integrates multiple catalytic seal rites implemented through synchronization with a core. It could be a hammer, or it could be like that. In principle, form and size are not at issue…"

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

That same 1% can be used to power an E-Bomb

Doesn't really imply that Heavenly Smite powers up the E-Bomb. Rather, it strengthens or makes Til's Spirit Arms bigger as big as a city.

The DSA scales above an E-Bomb.

This too, doesn’t really imply that it's more destructive than what the E-Bomb can do. If you look carefully, you’ll notice it tramscends the E-Bomb only in terms of degree and efficiency. Because a Spirit Arm is, something no Dwarf in history has ever been able to create (except for Loni and Veig), and it’s considered in a level beyond even the divine realm as it is something Old Deus couldn’t do.

Yes—Lóni Drauvnir, Veig Drauvnir. And Nýi Tilvilg. That falsely ethereal thing only they three had found was not a “divine realm.”
It was actually an artificial creation of gods…
Even the god could neither create nor imagine such a realm, yet not one of them realized this.,

 

[Lynieryz]

Doesn't really imply that Heavenly Smite powers up the E-Bomb. Rather, it strengthens or makes Til's Spirit Arms bigger as big as a city.

1%HS is the source of all the energy in Til's DSA, which includes the E-Bomb that is built into the DSA.

it tramscends the E-Bomb only in terms of degree and efficiency.

This was literally never stated and the DSA literally has all the principles that make up the E-Bomb but on a larger scale, anything that can be attributed to an E-Bomb would also have to be attributed to the DSA.

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

1%HS is the source of all the energy in Til's DSA, which includes the E-Bomb that is built into the DSA.

It just clearly proves that magical energy is important in the activation of a weapon of mass destruction, but it doesn't really prove that 1% HS is superior to EB in terms of destructiveness. If you think so or if we follow your logic, every Dwarf activating an EB in the past is equivalent to 1% HS and is superior to EB then? They power EBs right? Ofc no.
It's also unclear whether the activation of EBs actually requires magical energy or simply involves conventional explosives to trigger a nuclear reaction.

This was literally never stated

What you and I quoted earlier actually implicitly said so.
To reiterate, DSA is a masterpiece that no one in Dwarven history has been able to achieve, not even the god, Ocain himself. This is why it is a superior craft.

DSA literally has all the principles that make up the E-Bomb but on a larger scale

Not rlly, EB wasnt the same as SA or DSA lol. EB was just an inactived Old Deus. Whereas Divine Spirit Arm is an engraving technique, its level higher than Spirit Arms, since it tweaking the contents of the EB which is nothing but conceptual (Old Deus' essence).

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

Satanichia Chlammy Mafahl/Riku

vsbattles.fandom.com

Made this anw.

 

[Lynieryz]

It just clearly proves that magical energy is important in the activation of a weapon of mass destruction, but it doesn't really prove that 1% HS is superior to EB in terms of destructiveness. If you think so or if we follow your logic, every Dwarf activating an EB in the past is equivalent to 1% HS and is superior to EB then? They power EBs right? Ofc no.
It's also unclear whether the activation of EBs actually requires magical energy or simply involves conventional

What? How is this logical? 1%HS is the energy that powers the E-Bomb and of course 100%HS will be superior to the E-Bomb if 1% is enough to power an E-Bomb.

What you and I quoted earlier actually implicitly said so.
To reiterate, DSA is a masterpiece that no one in Dwarven history has been able to achieve, not even the god, Ocain himself. This is why it is a superior craft.

What are you talking about? The quote literally says that DSA is superior to E-Bomb in general, there is no specification about the superiority. You just picked one that you like without anything indicating it, due to your lack of logic it could be specifically in power or effectiveness in cooking, it doesn't make sense.

Not rlly, EB wasnt the same as SA or DSA lol. EB was just an inactived Old Deus. Whereas Divine Spirit Arm is an engraving technique, its level higher than Spirit Arms, since it tweaking the contents of the EB which is nothing but conceptual (Old Deus' essence).

What are you talking about? My comment was about the fact that all the processes that occur in E-Bomb occur in DSA.