Ninjago's Tiering 2

[Lloydblitzed]

I still dont get how you dont get how this works, wether you are purposfully ignoring things or not. This can be solved with a simple question

Are all characters who can "Destroy the universe" Low 2-C? If you say yes, congratulations, youve just made 3-A an irrelevant category. If you say no, that answers all questions you have about the realms statement

Destroying 3D Universes = 3-A
Destroying 4D Universes (Ninjago Realms case) = 4D

Its literal because of what??? Exactly, nothing at all implies, Youre just saying that Destroy the realms = Destroy the universe, which is not the case. You can accomplish this through different ways that arent even physical. You provided the claim that they can destroy the universe, its on you to prove it that they can. Going on rants with the same "They destroy the realms because they are destroying the realms" doesnt solve anything.


If its through unknown means, then we cant properly tier the feat. Feats change with context and reasoning, this isnt something you have to say to people

Character A can destroy the world, but is never specified on how. What tier should they be?
Character B can destroy the world, but is doing it by wiping out the surface of the planet. What tier are they?
Character C can destroy the universe, but is doing it via an omni-directional blast. what tier are they?
Character D can destroy the universe, but is doing it via erasing all of space and time. What tier are they?

The space time is the Realm. Destroy the Realm, you destroy the Space-Time

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Character A can destroy the world, but is never specified on how. What tier should they be?
Character B can destroy the world, but is doing it by wiping out the surface of the planet. What tier are they?
Character C can destroy the universe, but is doing it via an omni-directional blast. what tier are they?
Character D can destroy the universe, but is doing it via erasing all of space and time. What tier are they?

Please answer all of these questions

• 5-B
• High 6-A
• Low 2-C
• Low 2-C

Idk what ur trying to prove with that

 

[Minaaaa]

You have to be trolling at this point because theres no way...

Simple question, you do know you can destroy a universe, WITHOUT affecting literally any space-time, RIGHT? such as a massive explosion, this is literally why 3-A is even a tier

Here are some profiles who are 3-A without affecting space-time
Thanos MCU
Spongebob
Any fairy from the Fairly OddParents
Ganondorf
President of the Universe from OK KO
shall i keep going?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

As ive shown with other profiles, clearly not. Doesnt matter if u warp space-time or not, if you dont warp the entire structure, you arent Low 2-C. Want proof? Ask Kaguya. Should a character be Low 2-C because they warp space time over a city? if you answer yes, thats all i need to know. Even destroying space-time doesnt make you Low 2-C unless the space-time is universal in scale.

First of all, I don’t see them being stated to be able to warp the space-time. Secondly, you ignored my multiple Bill Cipher and SvtFoE examples. Just reminding.

I never said they were hyperbole. Im saying this statements can be interpreted as something completely different as to what youre suggesting.

These interpretations suggest that the statement is a hyporbole rather than taken to be literally. Under the Onis context, “destroying all Realms” was indeed supposed to be taken literal FRA.

Saying the oni destroy the realms by destroying the realms is circular reasoning.

I never said that? I said they will destroy the Realms via the power of Destruction.

Its literal because of what??? Exactly, nothing at all implies, Youre just saying that Destroy the realms = Destroy the universe, which is not the case.

Excuse me? It was proven a long time ago that the Realms are space-time continuums.

You can accomplish this through different ways that arent even physical. You provided the claim that they can destroy the universe, its on you to prove it that they can.

I already did via the statements above. You keep ignoring them.

Already did, let me recopy myself just in case:

• Nothing will be left.
• The power and creation of FSM would be destroyed.
• The Realms would be destroyed.
• Realms being separate space-times was proven in this thread.

Going on rants with the same "They destroy the realms because they are destroying the realms" doesnt solve anything.

They are capable of destroying the 2-C structure due to being able to destroy the Realms. The reason of such an ability is their power, Destruction.

If its through unknown means, then we cant properly tier the feat.

Are you going to stop ignoring us and shot the ******* RULE that says that?

Feats change with context and reasoning, this isnt something you have to say to people

The context is: they were going to destroy a multiverse composed of multiple space-time continuums, leaving nothing behind and destroying FSM’s creation and power.

Character A can destroy the world, but is never specified on how. What tier should they be?

Unknown, due to you not specifying the size of such world. Also destroying the world is vague and can be interpreted as destroying the planet, not the universe. Also, you never said the size of the cosmology from which Character A is.
The Realms are a different case though: they are proven to be separate space-time continuums.

Character B can destroy the world, but is doing it by wiping out the surface of the planet. What tier are they?

Unknown, due to you not specifying the size of the planet.

Character C can destroy the universe, but is doing it via an omni-directional blast. what tier are they?

3-A.

Character D can destroy the universe, but is doing it via erasing all of space and time. What tier are they?

Low 2-C.

Please answer all of these questions

I did. I see no necessity in that, though. I already proved that the 15 Realms are collectively a multiverse composed of several space-time continuums, more than 2 but less than 10. This fits the Tiering System description of 2-C.

Have you like, never watched Gravity Falls or even seen Bill's profile?

I am taking this as personal. I am more knowledgeable on that verse than you are.

Time Baby says "If your rip in this dimension continues, it could destroy the very fabric of existence". Thats pretty much a blatant Low 2-C feat just from that along with other statements for his power.

It is indeed. But by your made-up standards, it would be Unknown or Possibly Low 2-C because he “never showed destruction on universal scale” in the show.
Also, by your logic, existence wouldn’t include time so it would be 3-A (existence implies time, but since “nothing will be left behind” according to you does not imply time, so doesn’t the existence). Also, warping the very fabric of space-time does qualify as Low 2-C according to you, but destroying the very fabric of existence is a way to go? Double standards, what do I have to say, downgraders always have them.

This is in NO way comparable to just saying, "X can destroy the universe" without any reasoning on how they can or if they are even doing that at all.

If a character is stated to be capable of destroying a universe, it is either 3-A or Low 2-C depending on the context. If a character is stated to destroy from 2 to 1000 universes, it is 2-C. If a character is stated to be able to destroy infinite amount of universes, it is 2-A. Simple.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You have to be trolling at this point because theres no way...

Simple question, you do know you can destroy a universe, WITHOUT affecting literally any space-time, RIGHT? such as a massive explosion, this is literally why 3-A is even a tier

Ye, bc they have been stated to only affect the PHYSICAL MATTERS of the Universe, while for the Onis, it was said they can obliderate the entire Universe.
There is a difference between "Destroying a Universe" and "Destroying everything in the Universe"

Here are some profiles who are 3-A without affecting space-time
Thanos MCU

That's cuz he was explicitly stated to be able to wipe out every physical matter of the universe only, not the same as our Onis who will leave nothing behind after destroying the Realm

Spongebob

He pulled out all the physcal matter here, doesn't even compare to Onis
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Spongebob_Squarepants_(Character)

Any fairy from the Fairly OddParents
Ganondorf

He has the power of the Treaforce which warped a 3D Universe, the Onis can obliderate a 4D Universe, not the same case

President of the Universe from OK KO
shall i keep going?

Ye, he can destroy his entire Universe which was never proven to be a space-time continuum to begin with, so he's destroying a 3D Universe, not the same case with the Onis who can do the same thing to a 4D Universe
Btw, this is 3-A

3-A: Universe level​

Characters or objects that can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a finite 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion that covers the entire space, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a 3-D universe or a pocket dimension of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

This is Low 2-C

Low 2-C: Universe level+​

Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting,[1] creating, and/or destroying an area of space qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:

Guess what? Ninjago Realm is a space time continuum, so the 3-A criteras can't apply here, the Low 2-C ones does tho

 

[Minaaaa]

Yeah you guys are 100% trolling

How did you KEEP making circular arguments? Are you just responding to respond at this point?

I never said that? I said they will destroy the Realms via the power of Destruction.

They are capable of destroying the 2-C structure due to being able to destroy the Realms. The reason of such an ability is their power, Destruction.

"They are destroying the realms with their destruction"
Ok, how?
"With their destruction"
Do you not see how this is circular?

If a character is stated to be capable of destroying a universe, it is either 3-A or Low 2-C depending on the context. If a character is stated to destroy from 2 to 1000 universes, it is 2-C. If a character is stated to be able to destroy infinite amount of universes, it is 2-A. Simple.

None of this actually matters. No affecting space-time of all the realms = no tier 2, doesnt matter how many universes you affect.

There is a difference between "Destroying a Universe" and "Destroying everything in the Universe"

Destroying everything in the universe wont even get you tier 2, its called CONTEXT

Guess what? Ninjago Realm is a space time continuum, so the 3-A criteras can't apply here, the Low 2-C does tho

You cant be serious right? Universes are already treated as space-times, destroying a universe doesnt automatically equal low 2-C

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Yeah you guys are 100% trolling

How did you KEEP making circular arguments? Are you just responding to respond at this point?

Im just gonna answer to this with:

"They are destroying the realms with their destruction"
Ok, how?
"With their destruction"
Do you not see how this is circular?

Irrelevant to the tiering of the feat. ig Beerus and the examples above should get downgraded to 3-A
Wait till we get another mod here

None of this actually matters. No affecting space-time of all the realms = no tier 2, doesnt matter how many universes you affect.

You cannot prove that they don't

Destroying everything in the universe wont even get you tier 2, its called CONTEXT

I didn't say that granted tier 2, destroying the 4D Universe itself is tier 2

You cant be serious right? Universes are already treated as space-times, destroying a universe doesnt automatically equal low 2-C

Destroying a 4D Universe is Low 2-C without any excuse

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Yeah you guys are 100% trolling

We are not. You have to be trolling by saying outright being able to destroy several universes and warp the very fabric of space-time does not qualify for 2-C and Low 2-C respectively.

How did you KEEP making circular arguments? Are you just responding to respond at this point?

We are bringing up our arguments again and again because you keep ignoring them.

"They are destroying the realms with their destruction"
Ok, how?
"With their destruction"
Do you not see how this is circular?

Destruction here refers to Elemental Essence…

None of this actually matters. No affecting space-time of all the realms = no tier 2, doesnt matter how many universes you affect.

No, you did not read the Tiering System. It says “Characters or objects that can significantly affect, create and/or destroy small multiverses which can be comprised of several separate space-time continuums ranging anywhere from two to a thousand, or equivalents.” Exactly what Onis are capable of.

Destroying everything in the universe wont even get you tier 2, its called CONTEXT

Yes, destroying everything in the universe is High 3-A at beast. Even “destroying Universe” alone wouldn’t give you Low 2-C because you yet have to prove those Universes are space-times.
However, we did that with Realms, so no problems.

You cant be serious right? Universes are already treated as space-times, destroying a universe doesnt automatically equal low 2-C

Actually, no. You have to prove universe having time too.

 

[Minaaaa]

Yes, destroying everything in the universe is High 3-A at beast. Even “destroying Universe” alone wouldn’t give you Low 2-C because you yet have to prove those Universes are space-times.
However, we did that with Realms, so no problems.

bro what? Universes natively have space-time and we treat them as full space-times already unless its a created realm.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

bro what? Universes natively have space-time and we treat them as full space-times already unless its a created realm.

I mean, in case similar to Realms in Ninjago

 

[GarrixianXD]

I agree with the downgrade from 4-C. Idk about the possibly Low 4-C+ is viable, but it’ll be more accurate than the current rating.

And for the Mergequake, I’d wholeheartedly agree since the context is itself is just insufficient; regarding “destroying everything” as destroying the entire cosmology itself just seems to be an extrapolation. Thus, wouldn’t be an outlier nonetheless?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I agree with the downgrade from 4-C. Idk about the possibly Low 4-C+ is viable, but it’ll be more accurate than the current rating.

For which reason though: outlier or “we don’t know how Golden Weapons created a star”?

And for the Mergequake, I’d wholeheartedly agree since the context is itself is just insufficient; regarding “destroying everything” as destroying the entire cosmology itself just seems to be an extrapolation. Thus, wouldn’t be an outlier nonetheless?

The reason they should scale to 2-C is because Mergequake is a place where two Realms merge.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

And for the Mergequake, I’d wholeheartedly agree since the context is itself is just insufficient; regarding “destroying everything” as destroying the entire cosmology itself just seems to be an extrapolation. Thus, wouldn’t be an outlier nonetheless?

The Ninjas produced that feat consistanly, how is it an outlier? Also, we never said it was destroying the Realms at all, that's what happens when the Mergequakes reach a breaking point. Destroying the Realms with Mergequakes is not what's being discussed specifically

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I agree with the downgrade from 4-C. Idk about the possibly Low 4-C+ is viable, but it’ll be more accurate than the current rating.

We got a blog explanating why 4-C is consistant

And for the Mergequake, I’d wholeheartedly agree since the context is itself is just insufficient; regarding “destroying everything” as destroying the entire cosmology itself just seems to be an extrapolation. Thus, wouldn’t be an outlier nonetheless?

Everything refers to all of reality, more specifically Ethereal Divide + Merged Realms

 

[Lloydblitzed]

And for the Mergequake, I’d wholeheartedly agree since the context is itself is just insufficient; regarding “destroying everything” as destroying the entire cosmology itself just seems to be an extrapolation. Thus, wouldn’t be an outlier nonetheless?

For which reason though: outlier or “we don’t know how Golden Weapons created a star”?

The reason they should scale to 2-C is because Mergequake is a place where two Realms merge.

I'll make a map showing how the Mergequake and the Merged Realms works and explain everything again once Im done

 

[Lloydblitzed]

And for the Mergequake, I’d wholeheartedly agree since the context is itself is just insufficient; regarding “destroying everything” as destroying the entire cosmology itself just seems to be an extrapolation. Thus, wouldn’t be an outlier nonetheless?

The reason they should scale to 2-C is because Mergequake is a place where two Realms merge.

Ok so... (Time for a yapfest)....here's a map of how the Multiverse (more like the entire cosmo) looks like rn:


Link if u can't see media from VSBW: Here
So, The whole plot of the Ninjago: Dragons Rising Season 1 is about Ninjas trying to stop the Realms to occupy the same space, or, simply, merge, which the narrative supports. Now back to explanation
We know by default the Ninjago Realm as a whole was indeed affected by the Merge, but not in the same way as the other Realms. We do know however:

• The locations, such as the main planets/land from each Realms were merged
• The Grassland wasn't affected by the Merge
• The Nether-Space wasn't affected by the Merge
• The Overlord's Void is a counter part to the Grasslands anyways, so it would be logical it wouldn't be affected by the Merge
• The world expanded after the Merge and sum Celestial bodies were merged to (that part is super important for later)

However, its implied multiple times that the Monsters we saw coming out from the action of 2 Realms trying to merge in DR S1 EP 5 came from a DIFFERENT DIMENSION. This would indicate that those monster are from a Realm's Space-Time seperate from the Merged Realm, a space-time who was part of the Realms (as remember Mergequakes only affects the Realms).

We also see in the sky only 2 Moons, the one from Ninjago and another one from the Wyldness (which was shown many times btw). However, this is where we can see why the other space-times didn't fully Merge. Many of the other Realms have shown to have their own Celestial Bodies before the Merge:

• Never Realm have its own Sun
• The Wyldness have its own Sun
• Realm of Oni and Dragon have its own Sun and Moon
• The Cloud Kingdom have its own Source of Light, indicating it has its own Sun
• Another unknown Realm having its own Green Moon (top left corner)

However, after the Merge, we only see 1 Sun and 2 Moons around the skies of the Merged Realms. This imply that only some specific locations from each of the OTHER Realms were actually affected by Merge, which makes perfect sense using the dimension scans shown earlier (Fun fact: the term "Dimension" was also used to describe the Ninjago Realm, who is a space-time continuum). This is represented by the blue bubbles outside of the Merged Realm in the map

Now, we got the Space Bubbles from within the Ethereal Divide which was stated to be a Realm which would indicate its a space-time of its own (As the term "Realm" is gerenally associated with space-time continuum [like with the Ninjago Realm] ). This is what was said about Space Bubbles in DR S1 EP 17:

Prentis: There! We've ported them off to wake up in the lands formerly known as the Cursed Realm, which is where they're originally from. Probably.

Arin: Excuse me? What is this place?

Prentis: Department of Reassignment. We deal with interstitial space bubbles.

Arin: Space bubbles?

Prentis: A form of stasis. During the Merge, some people were shuffled into pockets of the Nothing Space between what used to be the realms.

Arin: And you find these people?

Prentis: Not on purpose. But when teleporting, Administration Agents sometimes bump into pockets of these Nothing Space Merge refugees. It becomes our department's job to send them back where they originally came from.

Arin: How do you know where they came from?

Prentis: Well, best guesses. It's all fine, probably. We keep records. (He sends Awakened Warriors through the portal.) Off to Cloud Kingdom, which is probably, almost definitely, their home. Okay, that finishes up that bubble.

This basically tells us the ED in fact significally affected by the Merge, as multiple MergeQuakes (at the time) were affecting the ED and ended up sending sum people inside, and at the same time the entire Ninjago Realm was being affected by that event. This also means the Merge as affected at least 2 space-time continuums, 1 being Ninjago, and the other one being the ED. This is further backed up by a statement confirming Ninjago was affected. And we also have this statement saying the Merged synced up time, which means we can argue it affected even the Realms, but didn't necesserally merged all the space-time, as syncing time just implies their flow of time didn't merge, but started to flow at the same pace

The MergeQuakes would thus occur for the parts of the other Realms who haven't merge yet, especially their space-times and Celestial Bodies, to go on and merge with Ninjago. This would lead us to a 2-C ranking for the MergeQuakes, Zane statements about the tipping point won't matter here, because this is linked to a WHOLE DIFFERENT event called the MergeQuake Storm, which involves a annahilation of the Realms. Also, that huge jump in power is explaned by the Ninjas regaining TP before DR which massively upscales their stats


I'll add more to it if I find something I've missed

 

[GarrixianXD]

I'll reply to more of this later. Anyway, I was rather referring to tier 2 being outliers. Though, given the justification Low 2-C should be solid.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I'll reply to more of this later. Anyway, I was rather referring to tier 2 being outliers. Though, given the justification Low 2-C should be solid.

Alright

 

[Lloydblitzed]

bro what? Universes natively have space-time and we treat them as full space-times already unless its a created realm.

@GarrixianXD has no veto power, idk why you listed him as a staff, he's just admin in Jokes Wiki

 

[Mr. Bambu]

This one also has four pages already, eh.

My last position was generally agreeing with Minaa, but then the arguments continued on for a great deal of time. It was remade and that seems to have continued.

If someone could offer me a conclusion of the arguments of both sides on each point in the OP, I'd very much like that. Just one, please, or perhaps one from either side of the argument if that would help avoid bias.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This one also has four pages already, eh.

My last position was generally agreeing with Minaa, but then the arguments continued on for a great deal of time. It was remade and that seems to have continued.

If someone could offer me a conclusion of the arguments of both sides on each point in the OP, I'd very much like that. Just one, please, or perhaps one from either side of the argument if that would help avoid bias.

OP starter side thinks:

• GWs feat is vague and the Star explosion scale to MW + GWs so the Ninjas would scale to half of them (Low 4-C) but the Ninjas would at least scale to the Continental feat from the Scythe of Quake
• The Onis can't be 2-C or even Tier 2 as "we don't know how they destroy the Realm even if its stated they can destroy a Realm", thus the feat is unquantifiable
• Mergequake feat doesn't scale to AP cuz "The problem with this is closing the mergequake doesnt demerge the realms, it just... closes the mergequake, preventing damage to the immediate area. What we are given is that, Merge causes realms to combine -> Realms are unstable due to this and cracks in reality appear (Mergequakes) -> Things come through the Mergequake or suck people in, therefore they close them. Closing them just simply stops the damage, not demerge the realms. As a single Mergequake doesnt have a significant effect on anything, its just hax. Closing a crack in reality is just an unquantifiable feat."

The Counter-Argumenters/does who disagrees thinks:

• GWs ALONE fully scale to 4-C, which is all explained in THIS BLOG
• Mergequakes are 2-C for the reasonning explained by Lloydblitzed right above Garrixan's 2nd comment in this CRT
• Onis fully scale to Tier 2 as they are stated to be capable of destroying a Realm, which is an entire Space Time continuum, and also just because we don't know how they destroy it specifically doesn't mean the feat is unquantifiable. And also "Destroying Realms is straight up statement as it goes. Can’t see how it means ruling over it. Unless it is specified that erasing life is meant and NOT the Realms, then it is assumed that Onis will destroy all of the Realms. This is how this wiki works. When you have statement “I can destroy universes” and both narrative and logics support it, then you do NOT assume that they are just destroying the life. You assume that they destroy universes."

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

• Onis fully scale to Tier 2 as they are stated to be capable of destroying a Realm, which is an entire Space Time continuum, and also just because we don't know how they destroy it specifically doesn't mean the feat is unquantifiable.

You forgot about the statement of them going to destroy all of the Realms.

 

[Minaaaa]

bump

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

BUMP x2

 

[Minaaaa]

I found this calc for the creation of ninjago. The verse should scale to this instead of 6-A

The Ultimate Spinjitzu Makes and Splits Ninjago

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I found this calc for the creation of ninjago. The verse should scale to this instead of 6-A

The Ultimate Spinjitzu Makes and Splits Ninjago

vsbattles.fandom.com

It’s literally scaling to USM/FSM Golden Mech, unless you are saying to downgrade them from 2-C.

 

[Minaaaa]

They'd downscale from the individual four
And thats for another days

 

[Lloydblitzed]

And thats for another days

FSM is just easly rebunkable via Overlord's scaling

 

[Minaaaa]

Again for another day

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

They'd downscale from the individual four
And thats for another days

If you are suggesting to downgrade the God Tiers, do it in separate CRT, please.

 

[Minaaaa]

its what i was planning on. Im waiting for this thread to finish

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If you are suggesting to downgrade the God Tiers, do it in separate CRT, please.

Didn't the previous Ninjago god tier downgrade litterally get rejected

 

[Minaaaa]

it wasnt rejected or accepted. the thread just died

 

[Lloydblitzed]

it wasnt rejected or accepted. the thread just died

The entire thread got pretty much debunked, I really see no point in trying to downgrade Overlord and FSM

 

[Minaaaa]

again the god tier's are a discussion for another thread i wont talk about it more here

 

[Robespierre_Isidore]

rebunkable

I hate this word; I threw up a little cause of it.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I found this calc for the creation of ninjago. The verse should scale to this instead of 6-A

The Ultimate Spinjitzu Makes and Splits Ninjago

vsbattles.fandom.com

Bruh


Also if the Onis wanted to wipe out all of Creation, that should imply wiping out the entire Multiverse since its present everywhere, which is why the Realms are called "Realms of CREATION"

 

[Minaaaa]

Bruh


Also if the Onis wanted to wipe out all of Creation, that should imply wiping out the entire Multiverse since its present everywhere, which is why the Realms are called "Realms of CREATION"

This doesnt change anything? I already pointed out why the oni arent destroying space times (or anything for that matter). Also, do you think the preeminent should be 2-C? I dont see any reason to bring her up

 

[Greatsage13th]

I agree with the Oni thing.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This doesnt change anything? I already pointed out why the oni arent destroying space times (or anything for that matter).

In fact, it does further support my side

Also, do you think the preeminent should be 2-C? I dont see any reason to bring her up

The preeminent part is replying to you thinking the verse should scale to the continents feat