Ninjago's Tiering 2

[JJSliderman]

Honestly I still don't see how merging two universes feat is not recognized at 2-C and is just "3-A". Same as destroying multiple universes. It's just straight up like that...

Because due to the merge, all the realms exist in the same time continuum, so it’s not actually 2-C.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Im trying to get at is that The Merge is 2-C and didnt only combine the locations as you said.

Pretty weird there only 1 Sun present in the sky in the Merged Realms when The Wyldness, Never Realm and Realm of Oni and Dragon has shown to have their own Sun asw

I never said it didnt exist, im saying its unquantifiable.


If we dont know, the feat is simply unquantifiable. We dont know if they are even destroying anything or even actually destroying space time.

That's a pure lie

"Nothing will be left" doesnt imply anything. Especially when we literally SEE what the oni are doing on the screen. Please go back and actually watch the series.

Dodging 3 scans is mad

Unquantifiable then or the lowest possible interpretation, which is 3-A/High 3-A.


1. We literally know the FSM didnt create the entire realm of ninjago,
2. none of these back up anything about how theyre doing it

Bc we don't know how they are doing it =/= The feat unquantifiable

The Omega is clearly talking about Ninjago (The land), since that is what he created... We know "FSM creating ninjago realm" was just him creating the land of ninjago, so why should we assume he can create space-times now?

Prove FSM creating Realms implies he created only the lands like Ninjago

Onto the Time Twins, warping space-time is NOT an AP feat unless its the entire thing. Tons of characters have space-time hax and arent Low 2-C, so bringing them up is completely nonsensical.

U cannot prove that lel

What? The combined power of them destroyed the MW, cmon man


And how did it create it? We've now looped around again

Re-Read blog again, we are not going circular again bc u do not want to read, there is no "cmon man", just go read

Dude, you have the tiering system pulled up. destroying a universe =/= destroying space-time. I really shouldnt have to say this.

There's no way this is being said when the Universe itself is a 4D Space

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Im trying to get at is that The Merge is 2-C and didnt only combine the locations as you said.

We provided all the evidence that it merged only locations in the last thread.

I never said it didnt exist, im saying its unquantifiable.

It isn't, destroying a multiverse which consists of 15 space-times is indeed a Low Multiversal Level. There is no contradiction to this feat LOL, every statement SUPPORTS the fact that the REalms were actually going to be destroyed.

If we dont know, the feat is simply unquantifiable.

Show the rule on VSBW which says that. Waiting.

We dont know if they are even destroying anything or even actually destroying space time.

Ignored all of the evidence we sent with LloydBlitzed again. "Nothing will be left behind" implies time won't too, especially with my argument above Time Element.

"Nothing will be left" doesnt imply anything.

Are... are you ******* serious? Like, literally??? With all of the context it is clear that we need to take it literally.

Especially when we literally SEE what the oni are doing on the screen. Please go back and actually watch the series.

Bill Cipher and entire of SvtFoE God Tiers never showed destruction on the claimed Tier. Just because it was not shown does not mean they can't do it.

Unquantifiable then or the lowest possible interpretation, which is 3-A/High 3-A.

Show me the rule which says it works that way.

1. We literally know the FSM didnt create the entire realm of ninjago,

DR thinks otherwise.

2. none of these back up anything about how theyre doing it

Literally wipe out Creation and leave nothing behind. Simple.

The Omega is clearly talking about Ninjago (The land), since that is what he created...

Proof?

We know "FSM creating ninjago realm" was just him creating the land of ninjago, so why should we assume he can create space-times now?

Go watch the show, you are claerly not knowledgeable on it

Onto the Time Twins, warping space-time is NOT an AP feat unless its the entire thing.

"Can warp space-time" how more direct can it be?

Tons of characters have space-time hax and arent Low 2-C, so bringing them up is completely nonsensical.

Because they can not warp space-time? You are acting like I am saying time manipulation is what gives them AP, LOL. It's a straw man if you actually do.

What? The combined power of them destroyed the MW, cmon man

Yes, "man", four Golden Weapons destroyed the Megaweapon. I don't see why they couldn't create a star after that, given that I already proved that Megaweapon should have been depowered before the collision.

And how did it create it? We've now looped around again

It does NOT matter. AT ALL. They created it VIA THEIR POWER. That's IT.

It's YOUR burden of proof to show that "destroy" or "create" means something else than literal meaning given THE WHOLE CONTEXT of such statements.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Because due to the merge, all the realms exist in the same time continuum, so it’s not actually 2-C.

We already proved that Merge actually merged only lands and not space-times in the previous thread.

The realms themselves are still explicitly recognized as distinct, otherwise it wouldn’t be “two Realms trying to share the same space” but rather “area became unstable”. If they were truly one Realm, why would he say “two”? The tentacle monster is also implied to come from another dimension… how is that the case if this is all in one Realm and there shouldn’t be any other dimension? And, how apparent is the fact that in the area where two Realms try to occupy the same space we get a monster from another dimension…
It is more of locations within Realms merging, such as lands, rather than space-times themselves.

There is also other evidence that I can show if you want.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Because due to the merge, all the realms exist in the same time continuum, so it’s not actually 2-C.

Notice how many Celestial Bodies from other Realms are missing after the Merge? This is why I think the Merge affected the Realms locations and the ED

 

[JJSliderman]

Then how is it possible that characters can cross space normally and yet still travel between realms?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Then how is it possible that characters can cross space normally and yet still travel between realms?

Because lands merged, as it is shown here:

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Then how is it possible that characters can cross space normally and yet still travel between realms?

Lloyd said the lands/locations merged with Ninjago which expanded the world, but the spacetimes themselves didn't

 

[JJSliderman]

If the plot is about realms occupying the same space and not the same time continuum, doesn’t that imply they’re already in the same time continuum.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If the plot is about realms occupying the same space and not the same time continuum, doesn’t that imply they’re already in the same time continuum.

May I remind you of the dimension scan I sent in the 1st page

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

If the plot is about realms occupying the same space and not the same time continuum, doesn’t that imply they’re already in the same time continuum.

They are trying to occupy the same space, yes. I don't know how are they supposed to occupy the same "time", though.
And them being recognized as distinct still means that they are still their own space-times.

 

[Minaaaa]

We provided all the evidence that it merged only locations in the last thread.

Then nothing relating to the merge is even tier 2. Congratulations

It isn't, destroying a multiverse which consists of 15 space-times is indeed a Low Multiversal Level. There is no contradiction to this feat LOL, every statement SUPPORTS the fact that the REalms were actually going to be destroyed.

If your not destroying the entire space time then it isnt 2-C, just a higher degree of tier 3

Show the rule on VSBW which says that. Waiting.

Its just common sense and simple powerscaling 101

Ignored all of the evidence we sent with LloydBlitzed again. "Nothing will be left behind" implies time won't too, especially with my argument above Time Element.

Dude, have you even considered that "nothing will be left behind" could apply to the LAND which is what they are SAID to be doing?

Bill Cipher and entire of SvtFoE God Tiers never showed destruction on the claimed Tier. Just because it was not shown does not mean they can't do it.

Different verses, different context and showing. They dont apply here

Show me the rule which says it works that way.

Again common sense.

DR thinks otherwise.

We see from the Merlopians that the FSM only created ninjago's land, now from this, we can assume this would apply to these others realms (Which we know nothing about might i add)

Literally wipe out Creation and leave nothing behind. Simple.

See above posts

Proof?

He literally says "So this is the realm of the first spinjitzu master", we know "his realm" is just the land from the Merlopians

"Can warp space-time" how more direct can it be?

Because they can not warp space-time? You are acting like I am saying time manipulation is what gives them AP, LOL. It's a straw man if you actually do.

Dude what? im saying warping space-time doesnt automatically make you Low 2-C

Yes, "man", four Golden Weapons destroyed the Megaweapon. I don't see why they couldn't create a star after that, given that I already proved that Megaweapon should have been depowered before the collision.

Because that makes... literally no sense given all the scans?

It does NOT matter. AT ALL. They created it VIA THEIR POWER. That's IT.

And that power was? Its very telling about the feat when you cant answer simple question related to the feat and just deflect it by saying "It was their power"

This is getting tiring and in turning into YET AGAIN, page long rants. I just wont be responding to you two anymore. You guys are adding anything of substance and your points are all over the place. Ill leave it up to other users to decide

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Dude, have you even considered that "nothing will be left behind" could apply to the LAND which is what they are SAID to be doing?

Prove it

This is getting tiring and in turning into YET AGAIN, page long rants. I just wont be responding to you two anymore. You guys are adding anything of substance and your points are all over the place. Ill leave it up to other users to decide

While you dodge everything and refuse to even read the rules, good job

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I still don't see anything wrong with the Tier 2 ratings.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Then nothing relating to the merge is even tier 2. Congratulations

+ straw man

If your not destroying the entire space time then it isnt 2-C, just a higher degree of tier 3

It already destroys Time Element, meaning the destruction is above Low 2-C. Also, the definition of 2-C is destroying a multiverse composed of several space-times, Onis fit that.

Its just common sense and simple powerscaling 101

Still waiting for the rule as it is not common sense AT ALL.

Dude, have you even considered that "nothing will be left behind" could apply to the LAND which is what they are SAID to be doing?

Your burden of proof LOL. The statements say they will destroy the REALMS, not the LANDS. Basic 2+2; literally.

Different verses, different context and showing. They dont apply here

Bill Cipher got his tiering entirely via statements. His own best AP feat excluding statements would be around Large Building or something.
God Tiers of SvtFoE got their tiering via a queen having a spell that was able to explode a dimension, and that other queens are aware of it. Their own best AP feat excluding statements would be City Block or something.

Again common sense.

Not at all. No rule shown = something you made up.

We see from the Merlopians that the FSM only created ninjago's land, now from this, we can assume this would apply to these others realms (Which we know nothing about might i add)

Merlopians only saw how FSM pulled up the continent. They never say “FSM never created the Realm”. He simply created the Realms, then entered it and there pulled up the continent. Simple.

See above posts

Already debunked.

He literally says "So this is the realm of the first spinjitzu master", we know "his realm" is just the land from the Merlopians

His Realms is space-time universe, not a land. Merlopians statements were debunked.
Also, I see, you are against Tier 2 in Ninjago overall. Noted.

Dude what? im saying warping space-time doesnt automatically make you Low 2-C

I explained to you throughly on that. If you still don’t get that warping X is automatically scaling to X, I have no idea how to explain it better. It’s simply this wiki policy.

Because that makes... literally no sense given all the scans?

Elaborate, as I already proved that in the goddamn blog.

And that power was? Its very telling about the feat when you cant answer simple question related to the feat and just deflect it by saying "It was their power"

Destruction. You don’t need to have a name of the attack in order to qualify. That’s something you made up and think that’s correct, although in reality it’s simply bs.

This is getting tiring and in turning into YET AGAIN, page long rants. I just wont be responding to you two anymore. You guys are adding anything of substance and your points are all over the place. Ill leave it up to other users to decide

Oh, also, add in the branches to my nickname (thinks Mergequake feats are 2-C) in the OP. Thank you.

Just to note, what we are basically getting from the downgrade side:

“Destroying multiple universes is not 2-C”
“Warping space-time is not Low 2-C”
“Demerging universes is not 2-C”

 

[Minaaaa]

+ straw man

You have no idea what that word means do you? Lets take what you said, so lets break down your argument

You said "We already proved that Merge actually merged only lands and not space-times in the previous thread."

If this is true and no space-times were merged, then The Merge itself isnt tier 2, as no space-times were affected, only the objects in those realms.

If above in true, then Mergequakes, by default, arent tier 2 as given above.

But we are also given that realms are trying to share the same area, and thus causes a mergequake. Saying only locations were merged wouldnt make sense because of this statement.

If you believe in both The Merge only merged the locations and closing a mergequake demerge realms, this would make a SINGLE MERGEQUAKE infinitely more powerful than The Merge itself, which doesn't make sense

You go onto say that Mergequakes are aftershocks of The Merge and would be weaker than The Merge, which yes, but given how you said "The Merge only merged lands", it would contradict this notion based on arguments YOUVE presented and wouldn't line up with the series, thus we are led to believe that The Merge merged all the realm's space-time together and not locations as youve said.

It already destroys Time Element, meaning the destruction is above Low 2-C. Also, the definition of 2-C is destroying a multiverse composed of several space-times, Onis fit that.

Theres literally nothing that says they are destroying time element or even ANYTHING. You can "destroy" as many universes as you want, but if it isnt destroying space-time, it isnt even tier 2. I can destroy all the matter in 1, 2, 10, 600, a milllion, infinite universes, but if im not destroying their space-time, then the feats arent even tier 2. Yell till you turn red and post as many "destroy the realms" scans as much as you want, this does not change that we literally have NO idea if they are destroying the space-time.

Your burden of proof LOL. The statements say they will destroy the REALMS, not the LANDS. Basic 2+2; literally.

Dude, literally watch the show. Wu LITERALLY says this in the FIRST episode

Do you even watch the material you're arguing for?
Garmadon says there will be nothing left + Wu saying theyre covering the lands in darkness = destroying space-time??
You see how this make absolutely no sense right? And you do know you can "destroy realms" by destroying life their right not even actualy physical destruction right? Same way i can "destroy the earth" by covering it in ice or killing all the life through other means.

Bill Cipher got his tiering entirely via statements. His own best AP feat excluding statements would be around Large Building or something.
God Tiers of SvtFoE got their tiering via a queen having a spell that was able to explode a dimension, and that other queens are aware of it. Their own best AP feat excluding statements would be City Block or something.

Again, different contexts, different verses. Plus their justifications are.... on their profiles if you read them.

Merlopians only saw how FSM pulled up the continent. They never say “FSM never created the Realm”. He simply created the Realms, then entered it and there pulled up the continent. Simple.

Dude, literally all the time post seabound, the FSM as stated to create ninjago, which we interpreted as the entire realm. We later learn in seabound that he didnt create the entire realm, only the land as other things were already there (The Endless Sea, Merlopians, Wojira). Now given this, in the context on creating other realms, we can assume this is what he did to the others.

His Realms is space-time universe, not a land. Merlopians statements were debunked.
Also, I see, you are against Tier 2 in Ninjago overall. Noted.

The Merlopians statement was debunked when? The series literally says the FSM only created the land of ninjago and not an entire realm, which if you say its wrong then???

I explained to you throughly on that. If you still don’t get that warping X is automatically scaling to X, I have no idea how to explain it better. It’s simply this wiki policy.

Again, Warping space-time doesnt automatically make you Low 2-C. Do you think every character with space-time hax should be Low 2-C? Several characters on the site have space-time hax and are not Low 2-C, (Aizen from Bleach, Acnologia from Fairy Tail, Blast from One Punch Man, Black Hole from B.F.D.I). This doesnt grant any tier unless more is provided about their powers

Destruction. You don’t need to have a name of the attack in order to qualify. That’s something you made up and think that’s correct, although in reality it’s simply bs.

Hey, A created C by destroying B
Ok, how did it do it?
By A destroying B
Ok... how did it destroy it?
By A destroying B

Another example
Character X is destroying the universe
Ok how are they destroying the universe?
By destroying the universe

Heres how it SHOULD Be
Character X is destroying the universe
Ok, How are they destroying the universe?
Character X is using a bomb to blow up all life in the universe

Another one
Character X can destroy a planet
Ok, How are they doing it
Character X are using their power to spread a virus over the planet and kill all the life there


Do you see how by not elaborating on HOW it was destroyed doesnt solve anything? Do you see how by not elaborating on the feat, we cant properly tier it. I will use the star feat in another example to see if you can actually understand what im saying

The Golden Weapons destroying the Mega Weapon created a star
Ok, How did the Golden Weapons destroy the Mega Weapon
By destroying the Mega Weapon
Ok but HOW did they destroy it
By destroying it

If you cant understand after this, then theres no reason to continue this discussion with you, lest we go on endless circular arguments that dont solve anything.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

You have no idea what that word means do you? Lets take what you said, so lets break down your argument…

You literally ignored what I said previously on this exact CRT. Merge is the cause of Mergequakes, which is why it is above it and narratively higher than it. You are overthinking things. It’s far simpler than that.

Dude, literally watch the show. Wu LITERALLY says this in the FIRST episode

Lands of Creation is another way of saying “Realms”. He is just using figurative language. Also, if you destroy all the Realms, of course all of the lands within the Realms will be destroyed too, no shit Sherlock.

Do you even watch the material you're arguing for?
Garmadon says there will be nothing left + Wu saying theyre covering the lands in darkness = destroying space-time??

First of all, Garmadon is far reliable when it comes to what Oni will do, because he saw them in the Departed Realm. Secondly, destroying Realms includes destroying the lands too. Thridly, Lamds of Creation is a fancy way of saying Realms. Simple.

You see how this make absolutely no sense right? And you do know you can "destroy realms" by destroying life their right not even actualy physical destruction right? Same way i can "destroy the earth" by covering it in ice or killing all the life through other means.

“Nothing will be left behind” + “If my father’s realm is to survive” + “Onis will destroy all of the Realms”.
Garmadon’s statements.

Again, different contexts, different verses. Plus their justifications are.... on their profiles if you read them.

Elaborate why this is different. You said/implied that if this is simply a statement and never showcased in the actual show, then that statement is invalid. All of the examples above are exactly that. And I know their justifications, 99.99% sure I am far more knowledgeable on these verses than you are.

Dude, literally all the time post seabound, the FSM as stated to create ninjago, which we interpreted as the entire realm.

May be “pre-Seabound”?

We later learn in seabound that he didnt create the entire realm, only the land as other things were already there (The Endless Sea, Merlopians, Wojira).

Again, he abandoned the First Realm and created Ninjago. He simply created it from the First Realm, then after some time he came in and there was life which he also created. Him pulling up the continent later contradicts nothing.

Now given this, in the context on creating other realms, we can assume this is what he did to the others.

Yes, indeed, he created them and the life/lands inside of them, I agree.

The Merlopians statement was debunked when? The series literally says the FSM only created the land of ninjago and not an entire realm, which if you say its wrong then???

It was shon long time ago, you were literally there too by the way.

Again, Warping space-time doesnt automatically make you Low 2-C.

I went through it, stop ignoring tiering system.
In case you still don’t understand, tell me what is circled and to what arrow leads to.

Do you think every character with space-time hax should be Low 2-C? Several characters on the site have space-time hax and are not Low 2-C, (Aizen from Bleach, Acnologia from Fairy Tail, Blast from One Punch Man, Black Hole from B.F.D.I). This doesnt grant any tier unless more is provided about their powers

These characters were never stated to be capable of warping space-time. If they were, however, you can indeed create a CRT and upgrade them. Go ahead.

Hey, A created C by destroying B
Ok, how did it do it?
By A destroying B
Ok... how did it destroy it?
By A destroying B

Another example
Character X is destroying the universe
Ok how are they destroying the universe?
By destroying the universe

Heres how it SHOULD Be
Character X is destroying the universe
Ok, How are they destroying the universe?
Character X is using a bomb to blow up all life in the universe

Another one
Character X can destroy a planet
Ok, How are they doing it
Character X are using their power to spread a virus over the planet and kill all the life there

The difference is, unless you cannot debunk what I and LloydBlitzed sent above on Garmadon, official Lego Website, Wu, Zane, and Tiering System statements, we can indeed say that Onis were going to destroy all of the Realms, leaving nothing behind. It doesn’t matter whether it is an explosion, omnidirectional virus, etc. etc., it’s still destruction of Multiverse which is composed of 15 space-time continuums. And it clearly didn’t mean virus, or killing only the people, etc. via what we sent above.

Do you see how by not elaborating on HOW it was destroyed doesnt solve anything? Do you see how by not elaborating on the feat, we cant properly tier it. I will use the star feat in another example to see if you can actually understand what im saying

The Golden Weapons destroying the Mega Weapon created a star
Ok, How did the Golden Weapons destroy the Mega Weapon
By destroying the Mega Weapon
Ok but HOW did they destroy it
By destroying it

Via their own power which is the main point. If you want to say that some magician helped them, sure! You can do that! It would just be your burden of proof.

If you cant understand after this, then theres no reason to continue this discussion with you, lest we go on endless circular arguments that dont solve anything.

If you stop committing several Burden of Proof Fallacies and ignoring our arguments, then we could actually solve something, but you are not that type of the person, are you?

 

[Minaaaa]

In case you still don’t understand, tell me what is circled and to what arrow leads to.

The entirety of the structure in question. You had it right in front of you man

It doesn’t matter whether it is an explosion, omnidirectional virus, etc. etc., it’s still destruction of Multiverse which is composed of 15 space-time continuums. And it clearly didn’t mean virus, or killing only the people, etc. via what we sent above.

Youre doing the exact same circular reasonings i pointed out

"Oni are destroying the realms!!!"
Ok how?
"By destroying the realms!!!"

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The entirety of the structure in question. You had it right in front of you man

Space-time is the entirety of the structure in question. Hence Low 2-C.

Youre doing the exact same circular reasonings i pointed out

"Oni are destroying the realms!!!"
Ok how?
"By destroying the realms!!!"

Because “how” does not matter at all. The only reason why it matters in your examples because it may be a hyperbole in certain situations. I made it clear that the literal meaning should be taken here. In this case, it does not matter what kind of attack destroys Realms. The fact that they can do it already grants them Low Multiversal Tiering. That’s how powerscaling works.

 

[Minaaaa]

Space-time is the entirety of the structure in question. Hence Low 2-C.

No.... it means they have to affect the entire space-time of the structure on a universal scale. You arent gonna get Low 2-C for warping space-time over a city

Because “how” does not matter at all. The only reason why it matters in your examples because it may be a hyperbole in certain situations. I made it clear that the literal meaning should be taken here. In this case, it does not matter what kind of attack destroys Realms. The fact that they can do it already grants them Low Multiversal Tiering. That’s how powerscaling works.

"Theyre destroying the realms and leaving nothing left!!!"
Ok how?
"By destroying it!!!"

again, more circular arguments. The fact you cant give a straight answer to such a simple question is very telling

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

No.... it means they have to affect the entire space-time of the structure on a universal scale. You arent gonna get Low 2-C for warping space-time over a city

Prove that city was meant and that city is separate space-time from the entire Realm. Burden of proof is on you.

"Theyre destroying the realms and leaving nothing left!!!"
Ok how?
"By destroying it!!!"

Already explained above but you ignored it. I feel like I’m talking to a wall at this point.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

No.... it means they have to affect the entire space-time of the structure on a universal scale. You arent gonna get Low 2-C for warping space-time over a city

Blud keeps ignoring every single scan thrown at him

"Theyre destroying the realms and leaving nothing left!!!"

Ok how?
"By destroying it!!!"

again, more circular arguments. The fact you cant give a straight answer to such a simple question is very telling

The way they use to destroy it isn't relevant at all

Another example
Character X is destroying the universe
Ok how are they destroying the universe?
By destroying the universe

Heres how it SHOULD Be
Character X is destroying the universe
Ok, How are they destroying the universe?
Character X is using a bomb to blow up all life in the universe

Another one
Character X can destroy a planet
Ok, How are they doing it
Character X are using their power to spread a virus over the planet and kill all the life there


Do you see how by not elaborating on HOW it was destroyed doesnt solve anything? Do you see how by not elaborating on the feat, we cant properly tier it. I will use the star feat in another example to see if you can actually understand what im saying

That's never how it worked at all. Show me where the rules says we cannot quantify a universal destruction feat if they don't say how they do it

 

[Minaaaa]

Prove that city was meant and that city is separate space-time from the entire Realm. Burden of proof is on you.

This... literally wasnt even at all what i was trying to say at all

The way they use to destroy it isn't relevant at all

That's never how it worked at all. Show me where the rules says we cannot quantify a universal destruction feat if they don't say how they do it

You dont need a rule for something thats just basic common sense???

Here we go again with an example
Character X can destroy the universe
They can do it through
-Their gradual takeover of the universe
-a blast that destroys all matter in the universe
-destruction of space-time
-other method like a virus

Do you NOW see how just saying "they destroy it" is circular and provides nothing to the conversation? Statements like "Destroy the world, destroy the earth, destroy the universe" are worthless if not given proper back up and context to them, since statements like these can range in tier because of it. Post as many Destroy the realms statements as you want and scream it into you turn red in the face, none of this changes anything.

If you guys are gonna keep going in circles and not actually explain anything then theres no reason for you two to participate in this thread

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You dont need a rule for something thats just basic common sense???

Yes we do, your common sense is irrelevant in here

Do you NOW see how just saying "they destroy it" is circular and provides nothing to the conversation? Statements like "Destroy the world, destroy the earth, destroy the universe" are worthless if not given proper back up and context to them, since statements like these can range in tier because of it. Post as many Destroy the realms statements as you want and scream it into you turn red in the face, none of this changes anything.

10. Argument from ignorance​

This is when someone states that since there is insufficient evidence of something, it cannot possibly be true.

Example: "I've never heard of an anime with stronger characters than DBZ, so therefore, DBZ characters must be the strongest in all of anime."

The person in this example states that since they do not know of something personally, it cannot exist.

NOTE: This fallacy is often invoked improperly, because there's a big difference between stating "There is no evidence of A, so A cannot possibly be true" (which would be a fallacy) and "There is no evidence of A, so we cannot assume A to be true" (which is correct logic).

If you guys are gonna keep going in circles and not actually explain anything then theres no reason for you two to participate in this thread

Lol, if you keep comminting fallacies over fallcies, YOU are the one who shouldn't reply on this thread

 

[ByArrow]

I agree with @Lloydblitzed and @TheOrangeGuy09 on everything

 

[Minaaaa]

10. Argument from ignorance​

This is when someone states that since there is insufficient evidence of something, it cannot possibly be true.

Example: "I've never heard of an anime with stronger characters than DBZ, so therefore, DBZ characters must be the strongest in all of anime."

The person in this example states that since they do not know of something personally, it cannot exist.

NOTE: This fallacy is often invoked improperly, because there's a big difference between stating "There is no evidence of A, so A cannot possibly be true" (which would be a fallacy) and "There is no evidence of A, so we cannot assume A to be true" (which is correct logic).

This doesnt even support you man. This is literally the exact reasoning the possibly rating was added, but if you cant handle or accept your favorite lego show being a slightly lower tier then theres nothing more to talk about

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This... literally wasnt even at all what i was trying to say at all

Regardless of whether you claim they affect space-time of wall, city, town, mountain, island, country, continent, planet — it’s your burden of proof to show it. Also time manipulation abilities are literally in universal scale by default.

You dont need a rule for something thats just basic common sense???

I don’t find it common sense. Nobody in sane mind does.

Here we go again with an example

Let me analyze it in detail.

Character X can destroy the universe
They can do it through
-Their gradual takeover of the universe

How does it destroy anything and leaves nothing behind?

-a blast that destroys all matter in the universe

He said nothing behind, thus including time. And I already proved that the destruction should be at least above Universal Level+.

-destruction of space-time

That’s good.

-other method like a virus

That does not suggest the destruction of the Realms leaving nothing behind. Unless you are suggesting a chain reaction of course, and the burden of proof is on you to show that. I don’t quite remember anybody mentioning that Onis would ever use virus.

Do you NOW see how just saying "they destroy it" is circular and provides nothing to the conversation? Statements like "Destroy the world, destroy the earth, destroy the universe" are worthless if not given proper back up and context to them, since statements like these can range in tier because of it. Post as many Destroy the realms statements as you want and scream it into you turn red in the face, none of this changes anything.

You are correct in a way that such statements might actually turn out to be a hyperbole: a character can claim to destroy something they are actually revealed to be incapable of, or meaning something else with the similar meaning. I already proved why they would indeed destroy all Realms along with the fact that the meaning of these words is literal.
Another case might be a chain reaction, but it’s your burden to prove this is a case.

If you guys are gonna keep going in circles and not actually explain anything then theres no reason for you two to participate in this thread

Is this something I should even take serious, because you are the one who goes circular and doesn’t give a sh*t to what we say.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This doesnt even support you man. This is literally the exact reasoning the possibly rating was added

Possibly is for vague and non-definitive conclusions. Like, if they were stated to destroy all of the Reality, and there is stuff that hints that the Reality is all of the Realms but it’s not really supported, then we would give only a possible rating since we are taking vague statements as a justification. However, there is nothing vague or non-definitive with “they will destroy all of the Realms”, “if my father’s realm survives”, “nothing will be left behind”, “two Realms try to occupy the same space”, “warp the very fabric of the space-time”, “created/became a star”, etc. It’s very straightforward and consistent.

but if you cant handle or accept your favorite lego show

We can’t handle or accept them being downgraded for no valid reasons.

being a slightly lower tier then theres nothing more to talk about

Is “Low 2-C -> 6-A”, “2-C -> 3-A” or “4-C -> 6-A” a slightly lower tier? Damn, we have a different opinions on this subject.

Also, DDM said that there is nothing wrong with Tier 2, which would include Garmadon. And I am asking for the second time to mention in brackets on Mergequake thing that I’m for upgrading it to 2-C.

 

[Minaaaa]

Regardless of whether you claim they affect space-time of wall, city, town, mountain, island, country, continent, planet — it’s your burden of proof to show it. Also time manipulation abilities are literally in universal scale by default.

I never once claimed this. Again, Warping space-time =/= Low 2-C unless stateed otherwise. Time manip being universal in range literally changes nothing. Again, do you think all space-time manip users are Low 2-C? ive shown examples of this not being the case

He said nothing behind, thus including time. And I already proved that the destruction should be at least above Universal Level+.

No it doesnt man, you can "leave nothing behind" with a standard 3-A explosion. Hell you can "destroy the earth and leave nothing left" by slowly taking it over and destroying it or via surface wipe

That does not suggest the destruction of the Realms leaving nothing behind. Unless you are suggesting a chain reaction of course, and the burden of proof is on you to show that. I don’t quite remember anybody mentioning that Onis would ever use virus.

I never said this. Can you not comprehend full statements and only pick out keywords?

You are correct in a way that such statements might actually turn out to be a hyperbole: a character can claim to destroy something they are actually revealed to be incapable of, or meaning something else with the similar meaning. I already proved why they would indeed destroy all Realms along with the fact that the meaning of these words is literal.
Another case might be a chain reaction, but it’s your burden to prove this is a case.

The phrase "Destroy the realm" is already a nothing burger of a statement and doesnt mean anything. You havent provided a single shred of evidence that says they are destroying the entire universe.

What we know about the oni is that
-The Oni are spreading out from their realm and covering the land in darkness
-We know their darkness isnt a physical destruction as literally nothing in destroyed in the cloud

We know this because ITS LITERALLY WHAT THEYRE SHOWN DOING. No physical destruction or anything, just invading the realms with their cloud, backed up by the show and book of elemental powers. Its YOUR burden of proof to prove their affecting the entire 4-D space-time of the realms and not just the lands.

Possibly is for vague and non-definitive conclusions. Like, if they were stated to destroy all of the Reality, and there is stuff that hints that the Reality is all of the Realms but it’s not really supported, then we would give only a possible rating since we are taking vague statements as a justification. However, there is nothing vague or non-definitive with “they will destroy all of the Realms”, “if my father’s realm survives”, “nothing will be left behind”, “two Realms try to occupy the same space”, “warp the very fabric of the space-time”, “created/became a star”, etc. It’s very straightforward and consistent.

Again, resulting to circular reasoning.

Heres what you are doing
"Oni are destroying the realms and leaving nothing"
Ok how are they doing it
By destroying it

Here what you SHOULD be doing
"Oni are destroying the realms and leaving nothing"
Ok how are they doing it
"The Oni are using (insert method here)"

If the simple question of "How are they destroying the realms" causes you to go on circular tangents, then thats all the proof we need on the feat not being even tier 2

And I am asking for the second time to mention in brackets on Mergequake thing that I’m for upgrading it to 2-C.

If you want to upgrade the mergequakes, make another thread. this one isnt here for that

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I never once claimed this. Again, Warping space-time =/= Low 2-C unless stateed otherwise. Time manip being universal in range literally changes nothing. Again, do you think all space-time manip users are Low 2-C? ive shown examples of this not being the case

Again, under current Tiering System, warping space-time is considered Low 2-C. You have to obey the Tiering System written under this wiki. I have nothing else to say on this subject as you deny the current policies of VsBattles Wiki.

No it doesnt man, you can "leave nothing behind" with a standard 3-A explosion.

“Nothing” implies time will not be there either. Also, 2-C is qualified by destroying multiverse that is composed of multiple space-times, and that’s exactly what Onis were going to do. You ignored this several times.

Hell you can "destroy the earth and leave nothing left" by slowly taking it over

How slowly taking over it will leave nothing behind? If somebody will conquer a country, do they leave nothing behind? Really?

and destroying it or via surface wipe

Burden of proof is on you that surface wipe of the multiverse composed of 15 space-times would occur.

I never said this. Can you not comprehend full statements and only pick out keywords?

Which is why I said “unless”, to address a scenario when you say this.

The phrase "Destroy the realm" is already a nothing burger of a statement and doesnt mean anything. You havent provided a single shred of evidence that says they are destroying the entire universe.

…No, we just can’t communicate anymore after such amount of ignoring…

What we know about the oni is that
-The Oni are spreading out from their realm and covering the land in darkness

Covering something in darkness can be literal, however given the context that nothing will be left, the power of FSM would be destroyed, the Realms would be destroyed, it is evident that “covered in Darkness” means complete destruction of the Realms. Also, Darkness is kinda other guy’s thing.

-We know their darkness isnt a physical destruction as literally nothing in destroyed in the cloud

You went back to what has been debunked long time before. Argumentum ad nauseam.
In case you don’t remember: there is no evidence that the Cloud was supposed to be the way they destroy everything. They simply use it as hax to get rid of powerful entities and take over the territory. Later, they would destroy everything.

We know this because ITS LITERALLY WHAT THEYRE SHOWN DOING. No physical destruction or anything, just invading the realms with their cloud, backed up by the show and book of elemental powers.

We are shown Bill spreading weirdness throughout the whole Weirdmageddon, does it mean he wouldn’t destroy universe/multiverse in the future? No. You see, bad guys don’t tend to always destroy everything right away. That would also make the narrative extremely boring.
Statements matter.

Its YOUR burden of proof to prove their affecting the entire 4-D space-time of the realms and not just the lands.

Already did, let me recopy myself just in case:

• Nothing will be left.
• The power and creation of FSM would be destroyed.
• The Realms would be destroyed.
• Realms being separate space-times was proven in this thread.

Again, resulting to circular reasoning.

More like you committing multiple fallacies.

Heres what you are doing
"Oni are destroying the realms and leaving nothing"
Ok how are they doing it
By destroying it

Here what you SHOULD be doing
"Oni are destroying the realms and leaving nothing"
Ok how are they doing it
"The Oni are using (insert method here)"

If the simple question of "How are they destroying the realms" causes you to go on circular tangents, then thats all the proof we need on the feat not being even tier 2

Show the rule that states that. Otherwise, I do not pay any attention to this argument as I already explained why it doesn’t work.
Committing Argumentum ad nauseam fallacy so many times is crazy.

If you want to upgrade the mergequakes, make another thread. this one isnt here for that

I got it, Mr. downgrader, it’s nice not cooperating with you.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

If you want to upgrade the mergequakes, make another thread. this one isnt here for that

Also, DDM said that there is nothing wrong with Tier 2, which would include Garmadon.

It seems that you might have ignored something (wait, why am I not surprised?)

 

[Minaaaa]

Again, under current Tiering System, warping space-time is considered Low 2-C. You have to obey the Tiering System written under this wiki. I have nothing else to say on this subject as you deny the current policies of VsBattles Wiki.

I never said it wasnt? Im saying it doesnt make you automatically Low 2-C, which is correct.

“Nothing” implies time will not be there either. Also, 2-C is qualified by destroying multiverse that is composed of multiple space-times, and that’s exactly what Onis were going to do. You ignored this several times.

How slowly taking over it will leave nothing behind? If somebody will conquer a country, do they leave nothing behind? Really?

Yes?? i dont get what your trying to say. I can slowly destroy a country by invading it, destroying everything in my path, leaving nothing left. Its your job to prove that "leaving nothing" would mean space-time destruction

Burden of proof is on you that surface wipe of the multiverse composed of 15 space-times would occur.

This wasnt even my point

…No, we just can’t communicate anymore after such amount of ignoring…

Again, more circular reasoning

Covering something in darkness can be literal, however given the context that nothing will be left, the power of FSM would be destroyed, the Realms would be destroyed, it is evident that “covered in Darkness” means complete destruction of the Realms. Also, Darkness is kinda other guy’s thing.

Or covering in darkness, means covering the land in darkness, which is what the show said

You went back to what has been debunked long time before. Argumentum ad nauseam.
In case you don’t remember: there is no evidence that the Cloud was supposed to be the way they destroy everything. They simply use it as hax to get rid of powerful entities and take over the territory. Later, they would destroy everything.

If they arent doing it via cloud, then how are they doing? some random unknown means, which is why your argument is considered circular

We are shown Bill spreading weirdness throughout the whole Weirdmageddon, does it mean he wouldn’t destroy universe/multiverse in the future? No. You see, bad guys don’t tend to always destroy everything right away. That would also make the narrative extremely boring.
Statements matter.

Can you not comprehend that different verses and feats have different context and backing towards them? One verse can have destroy the universe be 3-A or lower, one verse can have it be Low 2-C or higher. This means nothing

Already did, let me recopy myself just in case:

• Nothing will be left.
• The power and creation of FSM would be destroyed.
• The Realms would be destroyed.
• Realms being separate space-times was proven in this thread.

None of the statements, in fact, help your argument. Just restating the same circular arguments. none of them even imply full space-time destruction, just some unfounded way they would destroy them (Which we know from the show is their invasion process)

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This doesnt even support you man. This is literally the exact reasoning the possibly rating was added, but if you cant handle or accept your favorite lego show being a slightly lower tier then theres nothing more to talk about

Yes it does, you keep ignoring points that were already answered, completly diss the site's page and bring up destroy a universe =/= Destroying Space-time when the Realms as a whole ARE Space-Times. You have yet to show us where destroying a 4D Universe doesn't put you at baseline Low 2-C, nor proved how the 3 scans I sent refers to the lands only.

I genually don't know why Overlord is even liking these posts, especially with one of the worst reasoning on powerscaling history

 

[Lloydblitzed]

None of the statements, in fact, help your argument. Just restating the same circular arguments. none of them even imply full space-time destruction, just some unfounded way they would destroy them (Which we know from the show is their invasion process)

They in fact prove the entire Realms would be obliderated when the darkness covering process is over

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I never said it wasnt? Im saying it doesnt make you automatically Low 2-C, which is correct.

Under current VsBattles Wiki policies, it does.

Yes?? i dont get what your trying to say. I can slowly destroy a country by invading it, destroying everything in my path, leaving nothing left. Its your job to prove that "leaving nothing" would mean space-time destruction

Here it is, again, taking “destroying everything” and “leaving nothing” as a hyperbole. Destruction of FSM power and creation, including Time Element, their power being opposite to Creation, multiple statements that they will destroy Ninjago and other Realms — all of that makes sure it is not a hyperbole.

This wasnt even my point

You still presented it as an argument and I found it necessary to debunk it.

Again, more circular reasoning

Excuse me? It is not circular reasoning, it is me reshowing you the counter-arguments due yo you showing no acknowledgement of them.

Or covering in darkness, means covering the land in darkness, which is what the show said

Not the case here due to the amount of consistent statements which support that destruction of Realms shall be taken literal.

If they arent doing it via cloud, then how are they doing? some random unknown means, which is why your argument is considered circular

It is not circular, because me, and LloydBlitzed, already explained you several times that “unknown means” ≠ ignore the feat or treat it as “Possible”. You always referred to “Common Sense”, but it is basically the same as saying “Ninjago being wall level is as clear as a day”. It’s not going to work. Either show me such a rule under this wiki’s policies, or concede.

Can you not comprehend that different verses and feats have different context and backing towards them? One verse can have destroy the universe be 3-A or lower, one verse can have it be Low 2-C or higher. This means nothing

You ignore the very reason I used the dorito as an example. Throughout the whole show, we see nothing, absolutely nothing even remotely close to 3-A, leave alone Low 2-C, feat performed by Bill. All what he was doing is playing around, fighting building sized shacktron, warping reality and spreading weirdness. All of his Low 2-C came due to the consistent statements. Same thing here: Onis were only shown in the show to use Petrification Hax and fight Ninjas. However, due to the consistent statements, we can grant them 2-C due to destroying all of the 15 Realms.

None of the statements, in fact, help your argument. Just restating the same circular arguments. none of them even imply full space-time destruction, just some unfounded way they would destroy them (Which we know from the show is their invasion process)

I’m losing patience with you. I provided everything and debunked all of your claims. Your inability to comprehend that Ninjago franchise is actually far stronger than whatever low you desire them to be is not my problem in any world.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Let’s try it one more time:

Also, DDM said that there is nothing wrong with Tier 2, which would include Garmadon.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Here what you SHOULD be doing
"Oni are destroying the realms and leaving nothing"
Ok how are they doing it
"The Oni are using (insert method here)"

Explain these:

• Beerus was given 2-C from being stated to destroy Universe 7 but we don't how he does it
• Omnitrix was given 2-A for being stated that its self destruction would destroy their Universe

 

[JJSliderman]

Okay, we know exactly how Beerus and the Omnitrix do their thing. With Beerus its destruction energy that pours off of him when he battles, and with the Omnitrix it’s a big boom.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Okay, we know exactly how Beerus and the Omnitrix do their thing. With Beerus its destruction energy that pours off of him when he battles, and with the Omnitrix it’s a big boom.

Why wouldn't the Oni use their Destruction powers to destroy the Realms? Also, we don't know how exactly how Beerus destruction energy destroys the Universe and for the Ominitrix, using Mim's logic, it would be 3-A because hum....Destroying a Universe ≠ Destroying a Space-Time

 

[Minaaaa]

Yes it does, you keep ignoring points that were already answered, completly diss the site's page and bring up destroy a universe =/= Destroying Space-time when the Realms as a whole ARE Space-Times. You have yet to show us where destroying a 4D Universe doesn't put you at baseline Low 2-C, nor proved how the 3 scans I sent refers to the lands only.

I still dont get how you dont get how this works, wether you are purposfully ignoring things or not. This can be solved with a simple question

Are all characters who can "Destroy the universe" Low 2-C? If you say yes, congratulations, youve just made 3-A an irrelevant category. If you say no, that answers all questions you have about the realms statement

Under current VsBattles Wiki policies, it does.

As ive shown with other profiles, clearly not. Doesnt matter if u warp space-time or not, if you dont warp the entire structure, you arent Low 2-C. Want proof? Ask Kaguya. Should a character be Low 2-C because they warp space time over a city? if you answer yes, thats all i need to know. Even destroying space-time doesnt make you Low 2-C unless the space-time is universal in scale.

Here it is, again, taking “destroying everything” and “leaving nothing” as a hyperbole. Destruction of FSM power and creation, including Time Element, their power being opposite to Creation, multiple statements that they will destroy Ninjago and other Realms — all of that makes sure it is not a hyperbole.

I never said they were hyperbole. Im saying this statements can be interpreted as something completely different as to what youre suggesting.

Excuse me? It is not circular reasoning, it is me reshowing you the counter-arguments due yo you showing no acknowledgement of them.

Saying the oni destroy the realms by destroying the realms is circular reasoning.

Not the case here due to the amount of consistent statements which support that destruction of Realms shall be taken literal.

Its literal because of what??? Exactly, nothing at all implies, Youre just saying that Destroy the realms = Destroy the universe, which is not the case. You can accomplish this through different ways that arent even physical. You provided the claim that they can destroy the universe, its on you to prove it that they can. Going on rants with the same "They destroy the realms because they are destroying the realms" doesnt solve anything.

It is not circular, because me, and LloydBlitzed, already explained you several times that “unknown means” ≠ ignore the feat or treat it as “Possible”. You always referred to “Common Sense”, but it is basically the same as saying “Ninjago being wall level is as clear as a day”. It’s not going to work. Either show me such a rule under this wiki’s policies, or concede.

If its through unknown means, then we cant properly tier the feat. Feats change with context and reasoning, this isnt something you have to say to people

Character A can destroy the world, but is never specified on how. What tier should they be?
Character B can destroy the world, but is doing it by wiping out the surface of the planet. What tier are they?
Character C can destroy the universe, but is doing it via an omni-directional blast. what tier are they?
Character D can destroy the universe, but is doing it via erasing all of space and time. What tier are they?

Please answer all of these questions

You ignore the very reason I used the dorito as an example. Throughout the whole show, we see nothing, absolutely nothing even remotely close to 3-A, leave alone Low 2-C, feat performed by Bill. All what he was doing is playing around, fighting building sized shacktron, warping reality and spreading weirdness. All of his Low 2-C came due to the consistent statements. Same thing here: Onis were only shown in the show to use Petrification Hax and fight Ninjas. However, due to the consistent statements, we can grant them 2-C due to destroying all of the 15 Realms.

Have you like, never watched Gravity Falls or even seen Bill's profile? Time Baby says "If your rip in this dimension continues, it could destroy the very fabric of existence". Thats pretty much a blatant Low 2-C feat just from that along with other statements for his power. This is in NO way comparable to just saying, "X can destroy the universe" without any reasoning on how they can or if they are even doing that at all.