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First of all, here was accepted that Balance is a concept of multiverse so therefore, now we will add Concept Manip.
Basic Terminology
Before we go to the explanation, first we should establish some basic terminologies of the verse so it will be easier to recognize them when we get to the main explanation itself.

Conceptual Nature of Light and Darkness (Balance)​

Now this section will be the main explanation
1. Light and Darkness is fundamental for the existence of the multiverse and everything it containsn
2. Balance can alter and remove concepts.
Balance is responsible for the existence of all realms, and makes universe stable, the multiverse itself. In these multiverse there are dimensions such as the <Realm of Madness> - a another dimension having completely different concept of light and darkness and Master of Golden Power can create realm without concept of darkness. This means that Balance itself are capable of:
  • Creating dimensions/realms that having completely different concepts; meaning that altered the concepts that govern said dimensions, spaces, realms
  • Creating dimensions/realms that are devoid of these concepts; in turn meaning that Light and Darkness erased/removed these concepts from those dimensions, spaces, realms
3. Light and Darkness can influence and establish other, lesser fundamental abstracts
With Balance being responsible for all dimensions thus meaning balance itself responsible for abstracts and abstracts beings, for example:
In conclusion, the conceptual nature of Light and Darkness, represented through Balance, serves as the foundation of the multiverse and its existence. Balance ensures stability, creates realms, and governs abstract concepts that define reality, such as creation, destruction, and the laws of existence. The powers of Light and Darkness hold immense potential to reshape or erase reality, emphasizing the fragility and importance of Balance. Ultimately, the interplay between these forces highlights their significance in maintaining the order of the multiverse, while also showcasing their role in influencing and defining the very fabric of existence.

The Type of Concept​

So, from what above, Light and Darkness should at least fit Type 2, since it shapes, destroys, defines, affects and change all multiverse, etc...........However there are more:

From the basic terminologies section we know that:
Conclusion: From all those evidences above, we can see that Darkness and Light predates and is completely independent from the existence that they shape, define and influence. This is a Type 1 Concept. And fundamental abstracts like Creation, Destruction, and other abstracts itself is confirmed to be a part of Balance, thus they also are Type 1 Concept. And Darkness and Golden power, is a powers with must always be in balance, and affect the balance and everything, The Overlord and Masters of Golden Power, will have Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1) in full.
The Overlord:
Physical bodies:
Golden Master:
Enhanced Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1 [5-D]: Has power of Darkness and Light, who can shifting and destroy the Balance a 5-Dimensional Concept)
FSM:
USM:
Wu with Golden Mach:
Clouse with Dark Energy:
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
 
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Looks good but disagree with AE for those besides The Overlord as per the abstract existence page
Abstract Existence is the ability to embody an abstraction, such as a concept, thought, or information, and being immortal thanks to it.
Embodying a concept is not enough to obtain this ability, an abstract needs feats or reliable statements proving that the concept they represent grants them Immortality/Regeneration or control over the abstraction.
 
Looks good but disagree with AE for those besides The Overlord as per the abstract existence page
USM and FSM has control over abstraction due to Golden power as Lloyd after get his Golden Power managed to get Balance back to normal and even Wu using Golden power (The power of USM) to Balance system returns to normal after Clouse almost destroyed Balance, this proves the AE of Masters of Golden Power
Embodying a concept is not enough to obtain this ability, an abstract needs feats or reliable statements proving that the concept they represent grants them Immortality/Regeneration or control over the abstraction.
but will be limited because it is able to change them to other people


The Preeminent are immortal being due to that the Cursed Realm would return, at Dragon rising it would be rebuilt again, which means that the Cursed Realm and the Preeminent will return, and this is thanks to the fact that the Cursed Realm is linked to the existence of Djinjago.


It is mentioned in the same statement that it is not possible to see a world without Creation and Destruction/Wu and Garmadon
 
It's meant Balance created the 16 Realms and everything it contains
Headcanon?
Looks good but disagree with AE for those besides The Overlord as per the abstract existence page
Agreed.
Agree with Minaaa here but Preeminent should get AE as well
She does not have immortality for her status. If this was the case, Cursed Realm wouldn't fall after her death.

As for the OP, I ain't readin' allat-
 
I agree with AE only for The Overlord and FSM.

I'm not sure about CM because you need to directly manipulate the abstract concept itself to qualify. The shifting of the balance is more so a result of corruption/purification rather than direct CM. (Probably need an expert in CM to evaluate this)

I also think that some things in the thread are just wrong:
The idea that Destruction and Creation don't exist without Garmadon or Wu is just a misunderstanding of the text (It's a figure of speech that's hyperbolic and this interpretation contradicts the show since both Destruction and Creation predate them both and Destruction still existed after Garmadon's death)
 
I agree with AE only for The Overlord and FSM.

I'm not sure about CM because you need to directly manipulate the abstract concept itself to qualify. The shifting of the balance is more so a result of corruption/purification rather than direct CM. (Probably need an expert in CM to evaluate this)
Isn't the Balance partly made of evil and the other part is made of Light, so the corruption is technically affecting the concept
 
I also think that some things in the thread are just wrong:

The idea that Destruction and Creation don't exist without Garmadon or Wu is just a misunderstanding of the text (It's a figure of speech that's hyperbolic and this interpretation contradicts the show since both Destruction and Creation predate them both and Destruction still existed after Garmadon's death)
In fact, this does not change anything, considering that the FSM himself, who is the embodiment of light in his era, is the one who made them be linked to Balance, even if Garmadon died, he still exists in 16 realms, and since Garmadon is Oni, so he can't die completely as his essence still existed.
 
Isn't it sort of against Type 1 Concepts to be affected by anything that goes on inside the reality they govern? If Light and Darkness need to be managed by people doing good or evil within existence, then they aren't independent concepts.
Yeah, it doesn't seem to be completely independent.

Does it qualify for type 2 ?
 
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Isn't it sort of against Type 1 Concepts to be affected by anything that goes on inside the reality they govern?
Yes, but Dark (The Overlord), Light and Balance are not affected by destroy of reality they govern, regarding The Overlord and Light, they don't influence reality in order to get excited on Balance, they directly affect Balance, which causes an impact on reality.
If Light and Darkness need to be managed by people doing good or evil within existence, then they aren't independent concepts.
It is not affected by reality they govern, but it's affect by the Dark and Light who created it, as they are the basis of the existence of Balance and everything. The only thing that affected Balance is Dark energy/matter and Light energy, they are the only ones who affect Balance and that came from Dark and Light.
 
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