New Low 2-C 3 way brawl.

[00potato]

So three super iconic characters in the span of a month or two got changed to low 2-C, and interestingly enough, one is from manga, one is from a game, and the other a cartoon.
Pretty much all Persona characters (previously 4-A at best before Yaldaboth.)
Bleach god tiers (previously 5-A.)
Alien X and other Ben 10 god tiers (Previously 2-B.)
So late game Joker
Vs
Ywhach
vs
Alien X.
Speed equal,

Ren Amamiya

Ren Amamiya was an ordinary high-school student. That is, until one evening, when he was unfairly convicted of assault while trying to stop a drunkard from taking advantage of a woman. Sent off to live with a family friend while attending Shujin Academy, he stumbles across the Metaverse after...

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Yhwach

Yhwach (ユーハバッハ, Yūhabahha?) is the Father of the Quincy, the monarch of the Wandenreich, and the son of the Soul King, known by the designation "A" - The Almighty. As a baby, Yhwach was incapable of sight, speech, or even the slightest movement, but never feared or despaired, as he knew he would...

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Alien X

Motion carried!Alien XWe're the most powerful being in the universe. We change the very nature of space and time.Serena Alien X is the Omnitrix's DNA sample of a Celestialsapien from the Forge of Creation. Tier: 1-B Name: Alien X, his personalities include Serena, Bellicus, and Ben Tennyson...

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[Greenshifter]

B-b-but AX vs Yhwach is already a thing. Soul crush gg until I get my CRT accepted.

 

[00potato]

Wait that ain’t accepted yet?
Huh, thought it was by now.

The ball should protect Joker from that at least.

 

[Greenshifter]

Ben 10 revisions go slow, especially when someone decides to make a huge downgrade thread, halting every other revision in the process.

Although I don’t think anyone really disagrees with the souls being inside the PD in the CRT.

 

[00potato]

I mean this won’t be added anyway so we could go with that assumption if it makes it a fairer debate.

Since nobody seems to diagree with it in the CRT.

 

[Greenshifter]

2-B thought-based EE that works on souls allowed (for the same reason AX beat Demigra)?

 

[Purgy]

Fairly sure Ren beats Yhwach (Was a previous thread on this iirc) and Yhwach beats Alien X as things stand.

 

[00potato]

2-B thought-based EE that works on souls allowed (for the same reason AX beat Demigra)?

I mean sure but Almighty still presumably says no.

 

[Arcker123]

Which low 2-C key is Yhwach

 

[00potato]

I guess the last one, so he can deal with Joker better, and maybe make it even.

 

[Greenshifter]

Fairly sure Ren beats Yhwach (Was a previous thread on this iirc) and Yhwach beats Alien X as things stand.

Apparently this is more of a F&G thread since it won't get added anyways so you can assume soul crush and anything related to power absorption/nulling doesn't work.

 

[Purgy]

Apparently this is more of a F&G thread since it won't get added anyways so you can assume soul crush and anything related to power absorption/nulling doesn't work.

Soul crush sure, but why wouldn't absorption or powernull work?

 

[Greenshifter]

2-B range on his power, minds and souls. The power when he recreated the universe came from within his pocket dimension which exists outside the timestream (containing all timelines).

 

[Purgy]

2-B range on his power, minds and souls. The power when he recreated the universe came from within his pocket dimension which exists outside the timestream (containing all timelines).

I don't really understand what this means but range/AP is irrelevant to Yhwach's powernull since it doesn't work by overpowering the ability, it just takes Yhwach's side, this is why it's listed as a mixture of powernull/reactive evolution on Yhwach's profile.

 

[Arcker123]

When has alien x used EE

 

[Greenshifter]

Ah ok then, I was mostly talking about power nulling him before he attacks. While he's attacking it's fair game I guess.

Edit: Actually that ability is going to fail against AX's acausality type 2.

 

[Greenshifter]

When has alien x used EE

Nevaa, so it'll only come up when literally nothing else works (assuming he lives that long).

 

[Purgy]

Does Alien X have any way of beating Ren? Because I know for sure Ren stomps Yhwach

 

[Greenshifter]

Hold up, this guy has passive fate hax that works on type 4's. Usually I'd say type 4 is not type 2 but forget it I guess cause it'll probably work anyways. I could maybe claim the PD outranges the fate hax but I'm not even sure if that's true or even relevant.

 

[00potato]

It isn’t that strong, it just allows him to change things that were pre-destined but it doesn’t make him stronger or more like to win most fights.

It more just counters other fate manips.
Not applicable here.

 

[Greenshifter]

"The smallest intervention on Ren's part is capable of dramatically changing predetermined fates as he desires." "Ren is the Trickster, a being capable of defying and changing fate in the Persona multiverse". You sure about that?

 

[00potato]

Pretty much, he can change predestined fate but it hasn’t been shown to be a sorta insta win move, like it would have to be something he could do without the fate effecting him.

I mean he never made it so his fate is to win and go from there, and he isn’t considering invulnerable or anything because of it, so it isn’t really a win-con in most cases.

 

[Greenshifter]

Well ok then, I'll analyze the rest of his page then. You have any idea how good his death-hax is btw?

 

[Makstar05]

Ah ok then, I was mostly talking about power nulling him before he attacks. While he's attacking it's fair game I guess.

Edit: Actually that ability is going to fail against AX's acausality type 2.

Acausality Type 2 doesn’t stop Yhwach’s Power Null since he nulls powers from the present up to the distant future.

 

[Greenshifter]

Doesn't he need to see AX in the future to do so?

 

[Greenshifter]

Does Joker like conceptually attack someone with every blow? Does he resist non willpower-based mindhax?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Acausality Type 2 would actually stop the powernull since he needs his precog to null stuff

 

[Makstar05]

Doesn't he need to see AX in the future to do so?

No.He nulled Ichibe’s power in the present,while being affected by it.

 

[Greenshifter]

Eh... Could you guys debate it out under each other and then tell me whether it works or not?

 

[Makstar05]

Eh... Could you guys debate it out under each other and then tell me whether it works or not?

I can’t sent images rn but Ichibe removed his name and renamed him before he had The Almighty, but then he awakens the Almighty and the power wears off; that is a null in the present.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

He nulled the present because of what he saw in the future with the Almighty. Thats like, the entire point of the Almighty

 

[Makstar05]

He nulled the present because of what he saw in the future with the Almighty. Thats like, the entire point of the Almighty

According to that logic that power wouldn’t have worked in the first place since he had seen the outcome of the fight a 1000 years ago.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

But the Almighty was deactivated

 

[Makstar05]

When?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

During his fight with Ichibei? How do you expect him to null stuff when the Almighty isnt being used?

 

[Makstar05]

During his fight with Ichibei? How do you expect him to null stuff when the Almighty isnt being used?

I didn’t say he can null without the Almighty.I said that Almighty can null stuff from the present to the distant future.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Yes, but he needs to see the future for that

 

[Makstar05]

Yes, but he needs to see the future for that

Bruh no.He had already seen 1000 years into the future i.e his win against Ichibe but the powers Ichibe threw at him still worked.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

PIS. Otherwise, the last arc would never had happened

 

[Purgy]

Where was it stated Yhwach saw the entire future from his defeat by Yamamoto a thousand years ago to beating Ichibe?