Nero(the fate one, not the DMC series) vs Sora (1-9-0)

[Fezzih_007]

I ask If i should do this match on Twitter, and they said yes.

Speed equal
Nero is using the Mythological mystic code, and is Low 1-C
SBA
Votes:
Playable Red Saber Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus: speedster352

vs

The stardand Nomura design, but Brown hair: Fezzih_007, ThanatosX, BestMGQScalerEver, Bobsican, TheKingStrategist13, Kirinator07, Mickey1940, Eseseso, ijl007

 

[Fezzih_007]

Bump

 

[Violetcyanide]

Bb has resistance negation so layers of hax kinda doesn't matter,also ten crowns gg nothing Sora can do about it.

 

[Robo432343]

Bb has resistance negation so layers of hax kinda doesn't matter,also ten crowns gg nothing Sora can do about it.

ur acting like resistance negation applies to every single hax

 

[Violetcyanide]

Her hax is "get deleted out of existence" what exactly is Sora supposed to do to that.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Sora have durability negation trought, i think he can attack BB.

 

[Violetcyanide]

Sora have durability negation trought, i think he can attack BB.

Her hax is passive,she deletes him as soon as the fight starts.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Actually, i gonna change the opponent, i was reading here, and BB kinda stomps.

Her hax is passive,she deletes him as soon as the fight starts.

Sora resist EE trought.

 

[Violetcyanide]

Actually, i gonna change the opponent, i was reading here, and BB kinda stomps.

Sora resist EE trought.

Its subjective reality.also bb ten crowns has resistance negation,so resistance kinda means nothing here.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Its subjective reality.also bb ten crowns has resistance negation,so resistance kinda means nothing here.

Don't resistance negation Just neggs what's shown to negg? Is on the page for It.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Bump

 

[Fezzih_007]

bump

 

[Violetcyanide]

So what's Sora win con?

Nero has concept type 1 and soul hax.

 

[Kirinator07]

So what's Sora win con?

Nero has concept type 1 and soul hax.

So does Sora with 27 layers

 

[Fezzih_007]

So what's Sora win con?

He probally more skilled in combat, and have durability negation.

Nero has concept type 1

Sora resist concept type 1

and soul hax.

Does she use it ever this soul hax?

 

[Violetcyanide]

He probally more skilled in combat, and have durability negation.

Nero is fairly skilled she fought gawain under the sun who shouldn't be any less skilled than saber who can fight people who can bend space and time with sheer technique

Sora resist concept type 1

I don't see it on the profile.

Does she use it ever this soul hax?

All servants spam that stuff,you need to use soul hax to kill other servants.

Is all of his stuff 6d?

 

[Fezzih_007]

Nero is fairly skilled she fought gawain under the sun who shouldn't be any less skilled than saber who can fight people who can bend space and time with sheer technique

I know, but like Gawain is just listed as above average, while Sora is genius in combat.
He also have a lot of more option to do attacks.

I don't see it on the profile.

Here. Is on the Pre-Keyblade resistance.

All servants spam that stuff,you need to use soul hax to kill other servants.

I feel this is kinda cap, but okay.
Well, Hearts and Souls are kinda the same thing in Kingdom Hearts, so Sora resist i think.

Is all of his stuff 6d?

Yes.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Should i list the vantagens for each other?

 

[Violetcyanide]

I know, but like Gawain is just listed as above average, while Sora is genius in combat.
He also have a lot of more option to do attacks.

Intelligence kinda doesn't matter here.she is on the same level as people breaking causality,cutting concepts and dodging immeasurable speed attacks while being ftl.

I feel this is kinda cap, but okay.
Well, Hearts and Souls are kinda the same thing in Kingdom Hearts, so Sora resist i think.

How to Defeat A Servant
When a Heroic Spirit emerges into this world, he first acquires a Spiritual Core. The Heroic Spirit then materialises as the body envelopes this Spiritual Core. In order to defeat a Heroic Spirit, one must inflict damage to the Spiritual Core.

Also how does his dura neg works

 

[Fezzih_007]

Intelligence kinda doesn't matter here

Kinda does actually, since we only use what's on her profile, and in the profiles, Sora does have better Iteligence than her.

.she is on the same level as people breaking causality,cutting concepts and dodging immeasurable speed attacks while being ftl.

Do you have scan saying she is in the same level as that people?

And breaking causality and cutting concepts don't exactly say nothing about your combat skill, like analytical prediction, instinctive action and other stuff, you would more feats of how skilled she is.

And speed equal, so the last one don't really matter.

Also how does his dura neg works

This attack ignores defenses.

 

[KLOL506]

EDIT: Sorry, wrong Nero, my mistake. Move on.

 

[Fezzih_007]

What?

 

[Bobsican]

What?

I presume he thought the DMC one for a moment.

Anyways, Sora's EE can also target the soul, as much the soul is specifically erased alongside the body when a Heartless is made. And so by extension his EE resistance also extends to soul manip of that sort as it applies to stuff that'd make him a Heartless.

Also, I already made a post elsewhere on Sora's skill, please give it a read if that'd be a factor.

More specifically, Ragnarok ignores durability by dealing damage while ignoring defensive stats with void manip, as it's of that kind of element (which has that trait) in-verse.

Intelligence kinda doesn't matter here.she is on the same level as people breaking causality,cutting concepts and dodging immeasurable speed attacks while being ftl.

Eh, that's not quantificable combat skill, that's just hax, and the dodging immeasurable speed attacks while being FTL sounds more like an outlier than an actual feat, otherwise she'd scale anyways, in which case that kinda defeats the point on it being notable for skill anyways.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I presume he thought the DMC one for a moment.

I noticed afterwords, already put on the title to reflect in that

Also, I already made a post elsewhere on Sora's skill, please give it a read if that'd be a factor.

Nice, gonna give a read.

 

[Violetcyanide]

Kinda does actually, since we only use what's on her profile, and in the profiles, Sora does have better Iteligence than her.

Thats not how we rate skill

Do you have scan saying she is in the same level as that people?

She fought gawain while gawain had a 3xstat advantage.

And breaking causality and cutting concepts don't exactly say nothing about your combat skill, like analytical prediction, instinctive action and other stuff, you would more feats of how skilled she is

Nasuverse does this via pure skill,not supernatural abilities,they are so skilled that they can do this not via abilities,similar to how reid can cut concepts.

And speed equal, so the last one don't really matter.

Actually it kinda does,she can dodge immeasurable speed while ftl,equalise speed then she can dodge everything

Anyways, Sora's EE can also target the soul, as much the soul is specifically erased alongside the body when a Heartless is made. And so by extension his EE resistance also extends to soul manip of that sort as it applies to stuff that'd make him a Heartless.

Is that so.

More specifically, Ragnarok ignores durability by dealing damage while ignoring defensive stats with void manip, as it's of that kind of element (which has that trait) in-verse.

Nero resists void manipulation.

Eh, that's not quantificable combat skill, that's just hax, and the dodging immeasurable speed attacks while being FTL sounds more like an outlier than an actual feat, otherwise he'd scale anyways, in which case that kinda defeats the point on it being notable for skill anyways.

Its based on pure skill not hax based,
Also she is on par with Suzuka gozen who's calculation ability is superior to something which is capable of recording all of past,present and all possible futures.

 

[Bobsican]

Actually it kinda does,she can dodge immeasurable speed while ftl,equalise speed then she can dodge everything

Do you know why the page separates travel speed from combat speed? The pages don't detail it and usually this kind of separation is for cases for characters that have a slower combat speed than travel speed, not the other way around.

Is that so.

Yeah.

Nero resists void manipulation.

Okay I guess.

Nasuverse does this via pure skill,not supernatural abilities,they are so skilled that they can do this not via abilities,similar to how reid can cut concepts.

Its based on pure skill not hax based,
Also she is on par with Suzuka gozen who's calculation ability is superior to something which is capable of recording all of past,present and all possible futures.

While they are justified to work by "skill", how physics breaking they get render them into just straight up superpowers, which considerably reduces their value as skill feats for comparison purposes, see here for more information.

Also, regarding Resistance Negation I'd have to ask how layered it is. I recall hax layers and resistance negation layers are practically the same in terms of bypassing resistances (meaning that Resistance Negation isn't a ticket to ignore any amount of resistance layers) looking at how the discussion on the smurf thread is going on that regard.

 

[Violetcyanide]

Do you know why the page separates travel speed from combat speed? The pages don't detail it and usually this kind of separation is for cases for characters that have a slower combat speed than travel speed, not the other way around.

Can you elaborate,on this.because th feat occurs against something that has immeasurable speed which was blocked by someone with ftl speed.
Not to mention the baseline skill of this verse allows one to dodge ftl attacks while being subsonic

While they are justified to work by "skill", how physics breaking they get render them into just straight up superpowers, which considerably reduces their value as skill feats for comparison purposes, see here for more information.

Thats seems like appeal to reality,we are talking about people who can destroy higher dimensions,can stop time,can deal conceptual damage.so bending space is possible but bending space because of skill isnt just because ordinary humans are incapable of such skill feats,thats double standards.

Also, regarding Resistance Negation I'd have to ask how layered it is. I recall hax layers and resistance negation layers are practically the same in terms of bypassing resistances (meaning that Resistance Negation isn't a ticket to ignore any amount of resistance layers) looking at how the discussion on the smurf thread is going on that regard.

Infinite.

 

[Bobsican]

Can you elaborate,on this.because th feat occurs against something that has immeasurable speed which was blocked by someone with ftl speed.
Not to mention the baseline skill of this verse allows one to dodge ftl attacks while being subsonic

Thats seems like appeal to reality,we are talking about people who can destroy higher dimensions,can stop time,can deal conceptual damage.so bending space is possible but bending space because of skill isnt just because ordinary humans are incapable of such skill feats,thats double standards.

It's not that humans are incapable of such skill, the issue is that no amount of skill is going to make this sort of unrelated stuff work, perfect accuracy isn't going to suddendly make space cut in half out of space not working like that, and thus skill that relies on this sort of unquantificable stuff can't be compared to more concrete stuff.

Skill and stats are unrelated, I once even had to do a revision to separate skill from speed, meaning that it can't be used as an excuse for a pseudo stat amp on its own, so either it's an outlier or she'd just be all-around immeasurable.

Infinite.

I recall infinite layers wasn't accepted after multiple times this topic was brought up.

 

[Violetcyanide]

It's not that humans are incapable of such skill, the issue is that no amount of skill is going to make this sort of unrelated stuff work, perfect accuracy isn't going to suddendly make space cut in half out of space not working like that, and thus skill that relies on this sort of unquantificable stuff can't be compared to more concrete stuff.

Then,processing power beyond a computer that records all of existence is a concrete stuff

Skill and stats are unrelated, I once even had to do a revision to separate skill from speed, meaning that it can't be used as an excuse for a pseudo stat amp on its own, so either it's an outlier or she'd just be all-around immeasurable.

I am pretty sure it isn't accepted considering the recent rezero blog had a feat similar to this

I recall infinite layers wasn't accepted after multiple times this topic was brought up.

Actually it it, why do you think nasuverse is 1st in 6-d in the strongest non smurf.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I feel this is kinda cap, but okay.
Well, Hearts and Souls are kinda the same thing in Kingdom Hearts, so Sora resist i think.

Hearts and souls are explicitly separate in the verse.

 

[Bobsican]

Then,processing power beyond a computer that records all of existence is a concrete stuff

Sounds more like a mechanic of how their mind work, generally feats are the main priority, especially as you could argue anyone with infinite speed or above having infinite processing power, and we specifically separate speed from skill.

I am pretty sure it isn't accepted considering the recent rezero blog had a feat similar to this

Then it's wrong/outdated lol (see above), feel free to do a CRT.

Actually it it, why do you think nasuverse is 1st in 6-d in the strongest non smurf.

Because apparently they had 30ish layers, and AFAIK not all of their Low 1-Cs scaled on that regard, now if Nero does is another story, however.

 

[Violetcyanide]

Sounds more like a mechanic of how their mind work, generally feats are the main priority, especially as you could argue anyone with infinite speed or above having infinite processing power, and we specifically separate speed from skill.

She can predict all possible future and timelines from here to the end of time.and gawain can win against her 7/10

Then it's wrong/outdated lol (see above), feel free to do a CRT.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/re-zero-skill-evaluation-part-2.155254/

Here it was evaluated and accepted by multiple moderators,so no.

Because apparently they had 30ish layers, and AFAIK not all of their Low 1-Cs scaled on that regard, now if Nero does is another story, however.

Thats outdated by 2 years,ashtarte is now stated to have infinite authority which is layered as infinite layers due to how authority works,bb scales higher and nero is said to be on par with her.

 

[Bobsican]

She can predict all possible future and timelines from here to the end of time.and gawain can win against her 7/10

Pretty good analytical prediction within what it's shown, beyond that it could easily be NLF'd.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/re-zero-skill-evaluation-part-2.155254/

Here it was evaluated and accepted by multiple moderators,so no.

Eh, you'd be better calling a mod or two here as there's a blatant double standard then.

Thats outdated by 2 years,ashtarte is now stated to have infinite authority which is layered as infinite layers due to how authority works,bb scales higher and nero is said to be on par with her.

I'd rather wait for others knowledgeable on this verse.

You also seem way too knowledgeable on stuff for your blatant newcomer status, did you lurk around here for a while?

 

[Violetcyanide]

Pretty good analytical prediction within what it's shown, beyond that it could easily be NLF'd.

She actually scales by outperforming something that actually has said specs,the moon cell where the entire scaling comes from.the supercomputer is also capable of processing and reproducing 8d stuff.

Eh, you'd be better calling a mod or two here as there's a blatant double standard then.

I mean,they are some of the most trusted moderators here.

I'd rather wait for others knowledgeable on this verse.

Well good luck,they are extremely busy or not active anymore

You also seem way too knowledgeable on stuff for your blatant newcomer status, did you lurk around here for a while?

I have been around.i suppose.

 

[Fezzih_007]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/re-zero-skill-evaluation-part-2.155254/

Here it was evaluated and accepted by multiple moderators,so no.

I gonna make a CRT to remove that actually.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Thats not how we rate skill

How we do It then? Because most the skill feats should be put on the itteligence section, and Nero best skill feat is "able to fight Gawain" which he himself is above average, while Sora is Genius in combat.

Can you explain to me why being more inteligent in combat than the other don't account to be more skilled?

She fought gawain while gawain had a 3xstat advantage.

Ok? That's is possible actually.

Nasuverse does this via pure skill,not supernatural abilities,they are so skilled that they can do this not via abilities,similar to how reid can cut concepts.

Again, this means nothing to actual combat skill, like Reid cutting concepts don't mean much on his own, without other feats about combat.

Don't really matter because Nero should't scale to that.

Actually it kinda does,she can dodge immeasurable speed while ftl,equalise speed then she can dodge everything

That's not how this works, what?

And also, this seems like a outlier.

 

[Violetcyanide]

How we do It then? Because most the skill feats should be put on the itteligence section, and Nero best skill feat is "able to fight Gawain" which he himself is above average, while Sora is Genius in combat.

Can you explain to me why being more inteligent in combat than the other don't account to be more skilled?

Intelligence is for creating stuff,not for combat skill.charles Xavier is extraordinary genius does that mean he stomps Sora in a skill fight.no well there is your answer.

Also nasuverse combats should extraordinary genius since even shirou can maintain a reality marble which is said to be beyond even a supercomputer

Ok? That's is possible actually.

Are you new around here,hell nero here fought someone who is omnipresent and won.

Again, this means nothing to actual combat skill, like Reid cutting concepts don't mean much on his own, without other feats about combat.

Nasuverse has one of the best skill tiering in the wiki,with three people contending for the most skilled in the wiki.

Don't really matter because Nero should't scale to that.

She fought gawain who has that skill level while he was 3x stronger than her,she absolutely scales to that.

That's not how this works, what?

And also, this seems like a outlier.

Check shirou page dude has subsonic speed with ftl reaction.stuff like that is pretty common in higher tiers.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Intelligence is for creating stuff,not for combat skill.

Is for both actually, a bunch of pages on this wiki have a inteligent section for both combat skill, and inteligent in general.

charles Xavier is extraordinary genius does that mean he stomps Sora in a skill fight.no well there is your answer.

Unless he also have a combat Genius in his profile, no.

Also nasuverse combats should extraordinary genius since even shirou can maintain a reality marble which is said to be beyond even a supercomputer

Since when maintaining a reality Marble have to do with combat, and not how magic one guy posses?

Even then, that don't really mean much about combat skill still, like instinctive action, analytical prediction, etc etc

Are you new around here,hell nero here fought someone who is omnipresent and won.

Ok?

Nasuverse has one of the best skill tiering in the wiki,with three people contending for the most skilled in the wiki.

Yeah i know, but you providing zero feats about Nero skill feats in combat.

She fought gawain who has that skill level while he was 3x stronger than her,she absolutely scales to that.

Ok, but like Gawain don't have any of the feats above listed on his profile.

Check shirou page dude has subsonic speed with ftl reaction.stuff like that is pretty common in higher tiers.

Yeah, he have a travel speed of subsonic, and reaction speed FTL, that's normal.

I trought you arguing that she have FTL combat speed, and as able to dodge immesurable speed, because the later is Impossible.

 

[Violetcyanide]

Unless he also have a combat Genius in his profile, no.

The profile isn't maintained correctly like every nasu page

Since when maintaining a reality Marble have to do with combat, and not how magic one guy posses?

Because even the most powerful supercomputer on the planet doesn't have the computing power to maintain a reality marble

Even then, that don't really mean much about combat skill still, like instinctive action, analytical prediction, etc etc

I have been telling you in the entire thread

Using imperial privilege,

She can get analytical prediction that allows her to win battles she would only a 1% chance of winning.and is borderline precog.

Instinctive instincts which allows one to dodge immeasurable speed attacks.

Actual precog which can see into the future.

Skills good enough that she can fight against people who can see all futures,can bend space-time,can copy skills ignoring resistance of informational analysis,

But like Gawain don't have any of the feats above listed on his profile.

Well it isn't maintained correctly

Yeah, he have a travel speed of subsonic, and reaction speed FTL, that's normal.

He can dodge ftl attacks as a subsonic.

I trought you arguing that she have FTL combat speed, and as able to dodge immesurable speed, because the later is Impossible.

Thats saber's skill feat and also this is fiction anything goes.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Just gonna say, I am solely here to discuss Skill between these two character's. I am not really here for the other aspects of the match, as frankly- Nasu Hax vs KH Hax is not something I feel confident about getting into.

That said, the best feats I can really find for Nero are the aforementioned defeating Sun Amped Gawain, and being evenly matched with Cu Chulainn according to Rin Tohsaka, who tends to be a very reliable source in regards to all sorts of subjects in verse, including Servants. That said, while this is impressive, 1, we don't know how much Nero's own stats may have played a factor here- Take into consideration the fact that Saber Classes are notoriously stated to be the perceived best class in the verse, as well as the fact that Lancer's are often shown to be weak against Saber's (Though that whole Class Weakness Chart never always applies). Even so, unfortunately, merely scaling above other character's in Skill often isn't really considered substantial enough on this site (Trust me- I tried these very same kinds of arguments before).

I also see that there is a attempted argument for Nero being > A Supercomputer via the fact that Shirou can maintain a reality Marble. But, even if we take the idea that maintaining a reality marble is of this caliber, there is nothing indicating any scaling above Shirou for Nero, and in fact, I would argue that at least in UBW, Heaven's Feel, and Oath Under Snow, Shirou would massively dwarf Nero in skill (Via the simple fact he's been copying the skill of numerous much more skilled Servants and has been shown to maintain that skill for a seemingly indefinite period of time after copying them), so this argument doesn't really work. If the Argument here is that her Noble Phantasm is a Reality Marble, ergo the same idea applies, the fact is that her NP is not a Reality Marble, but rather it works similarly to one. Instead of overwriting the world, it merely builds on top of it- Which is something a Computer can likely quantify rather easily, or at least would be much easier to calculate.

In any case, while I do find Nero impressive if we take into consideration Skill Scaling, Sora simply has wayyyy more feats to his name. There's the fact that he can parry a Omni-Directional Laser Attack, for one- Or maybe the fact that he consistently is shown being able to pick up New Weapons (Primarily through Formchanging) and is able to use them with surprising skill in spite of seemingly never having trained to use them before. Or how about we use how Roxas (Who as his nobody, should have comparable/equal skill to Sora) was able to defeat character's like Saix and Xion in spite of working off of essentially fumes (Xion was absorbing the vast majority of Roxas's power at the time, yet he still defeats these combatants who should explicitly dwarf him in sheer stats.). Sora simply has way more going for him overall, whereas most of Nero's best feats are just fighting other character's normally, which while impressive, can be heavily affected by her stats, whereas a lot of Sora's stats don't matter for his feats or feats he scales to.