NEP 2 Alovenus

[Fixxed]

A. Alovenus still capable to exist in the same case with non existence state

Ruphas’ sword broke the Goddess’ sword, and even sliced through the Goddess’ body. The slash tore through everything in its path and continued to fly on indefinitely. The slash, which seemed to cut even the Final Point open, became bigger as it flew on to a distant location—and eventually disappeared.

Naturally, the Goddess didn’t die because of this. Death would not come to her by any means except for suicide. Even if her soul was destroyed, erased without any traces left, or rendered non-existent, she would still return, calmly and brazenly.

188

" or rendered non-existent, she would still return,"

what is the meaning of Non-existence

Alovenus laughed innocently like a child and continued her vicious attacks without ceasing.

The ability to absolutely kill anything that existed within the same space, penetrating all resistances.
The ability to reflect all attacks received.
The ability to reverse time and make the opponent non-existent.
The ability to win regardless of the process.
The ability to inflict the defeat condition on the opponent.
The ability to erase everything with a glance.
The ability to nullify all abilities.
The ability to seal all attacks and render the opponent incapable of taking defensive actions.
The abilities of all the gods from various mythos.
The abilities that were made up in fiction somewhere.
—She was using everything that she could think of, but Ruphas still didn’t disappear. The latter just couldn’t be stopped.But she was having so much fun that she couldn't help it.

187

"The ability to reverse time and make the opponent non-existent."

This sentence meaning, alovenus capable still exist in this state ( non existence state) where as same case before you existed.

I mean, you exist in State before you exist is Nep2.

B. Alovenus still capable to exist although the Very concept Of Hp got erased / Her HP statistic got erased.

…………え？　あ？　う、嘘……私は、今……」

「ああ、HPが０になったな。自分でも分かるだろう」



　HPがゼロになろうとマイナスになろうと、HPという概念ごと消し飛ばされようと、それでもアロヴィナスは死なない。

　戦いは続行しようと思えばいくらでも続けられるし、立ち上がろうと思えばいくらでも立てる。

　だが負けた――そう、紛れもなくアロヴィナスは今、負けたのだ。(188)

-“Oh, your HP has been reduced to zero. You should know this already.”

Even when her HP had been reduced to zero or less, or when her HP statistic itself was erased, Alovenus still wouldn’t die. The battle would continue for as long as she wanted it to continue. She could stand up again as long as she wanted to do so. ( G translate)

C. “Alovenus would come back even if the very concept of her HP was erased”. (Translator note)

So the conclusion is:

1. alovenus capable still exist in this state ( non existence state) where as same case before you existed

2. Alovenus capable to still exist although her very concept HP got erased

 

[Ian2296]

A. Alovenus still capable to exist in the same case with non existence state





" or rendered non-existent, she would still return,"

I'm pretty sure this is just regeneration.

"The ability to reverse time and make the opponent non-existent."

That's just EE.

B. Alovenus still capable to exist although the Very concept Of Hp got erased / Her HP statistic got erased.

This is possible if HP is really a concept that makes up your existence.

 

[Fixxed]

I'm pretty sure this is just regeneration.

The point on this CRT not on Hgr, but NEP2

Read this

1. alovenus capable still exist in this state ( non existence state) where as same case before you existed

That's just EE.
.

In this case, i only explanation what is non existence in a wild last boss, The main point is meaning of Non-existence not the EE or resistance about EE

This is possible if HP is really a concept that makes up your existence.

If you use Google translate version is like this

Even when her HP had been reduced to zero or less, or when her HP statistic itself was erased, Alovenus still wouldn’t die. The battle would continue for as long as she wanted it to continue. She could stand up again as long as she wanted to do so. ( G translate)

"statistic itself was erased" i think its qualified for foundation of existence

---

 

[Thelastmlg]

Any scans for them "returning" while still nonexistent? Simply coming back would be regen.

HP is just life normally, you need scans of it being your existence, and it must be conceptual or else it would be NEP type 1

google translate is not a reliable source, would like a better translation of that translator note, also "existing" after time/history erasure is not type 2 as far as I know.

 

[Fixxed]

Any scans for them "returning" while still nonexistent? Simply coming back would be regen.

Why not both? NEP 2 ( if alovenus in Non existence 2 state) if regen, she Will get HGR (Already accepted)

.
HP is just life normally, you need scans of it being your existence, and it must be conceptual or else it would be NEP type 1

Alovenus would come back even if her HP was erased” is strictly “Alovenus would come back even if the very concept of her HP was erased”. (Translator note)

i think its qualified for HP become Concept/foundation of character


Btw, alovenus Is accepted For High godly regen, so very concept of Hp its qualified for concept of character

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Pretty sure the "Even when her HP had been reduced to zero or less, or when her HP statistic itself was erased, Alovenus still wouldn’t die" is just the alternative translation from Vecna, the other dude who did the translation for the series.

Here it is more context:

The current Ruphas might be able to forcibly kill the immortal Alovenus, but it seemed she had no intention of doing so. In any case, Alovenus herself had already painfully accepted her defeat.

“…Eh? Ah? Im—Impossible…I’m currently…”

“Oh, your HP has been reduced to zero. You should know this already.”

Even when her HP had been reduced to zero or less, or when her HP statistic itself was erased, Alovenus still wouldn’t die. The battle would continue for as long as she wanted it to continue. She could stand up again as long as she wanted to do so.

However, she had lost. Indeed, there was no doubt that Alovenus had lost. Furthermore, if Ruphas had wanted to kill her, Alovenus would be dead already.-Chapter 187

The other translator just states "Alovenus would come back even if the very concept of her HP was erased" is more accurate.

But yea looking at this, HP is something that basically indicates whatever something is dead or alive, Alovenus HP was already at zero, she should be dead, but is still acting anyway.

I commanded Dina who had ended up where I was because she was still attached to my back.
[Star of Asclepius] was a resurrection skill belonging to the highest-tiered Water attribute divine magic.
The effect of the skill was to fully recover the HP of all allies within the specified area around the user whilst stripping all status buffs, irrespective of their effects, and it also came with the effect of resurrecting the dead.
However, within X-Gate Online, resurrection skills had a time limit. The skill had to be used on the dead within a specified time limit or else they would be sent back to the town to respawn and would end up suffering a death penalty debuff.[2]
Needless to say, in this world, death was permanent, thus there was no such kind feature as being sent back to town to respawn with a death penalty debuff.
In fact, back in the game, when the magical beasts’ HP reached 0, they would only be forcibly retired from the battle. Thus, it was impossible for them to die in the first place. Nevertheless, they would most likely die as per normal in this world.-Chapter 115

I don't really have any thoughts on this topic though, NEP type 2 is complicated.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Well, if Alovenus can exist even with her concept of HP reduced to 0 but also can regen, it just means that she has NEP 2 and also High-Godly anyways, I agree

 

[Antoniofer]

Text mention "return" so it fit more with regeneration than actually turning nonexistent.

Plus, even if the "no concept of HP" is literal as you say (something that I personally wouldn't allow that easy), what does HP means in this verse? What would suggest having no HP what so ever, does energy as mana have HP here, or perhaps does the wind?

 

[Bernkastelll]

Text mention "return" so it fit more with regeneration than actually turning nonexistent.

Plus, even if the "no concept of HP" is literal as you say (something that I personally wouldn't allow that easy), what does HP means in this verse? What would suggest having no HP what so ever, does energy as mana have HP here, or perhaps does the wind?

HP is kinda rated as a conceptual thing iirc, as the characters have High-Godly due being able to regen even with the concept of HP being reduced to 0

 

[Fixxed]

Text mention "return" so it fit more with regeneration than actually turning nonexistent.

She become non existence= NEP 2
She return = HGR

 

[Fixxed]

Afterall, many character gained Nep2+ HGR with only same feat, like EUG from instant death

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

HP really is pretty irrelevant, Bern should have posted, what i posted in the discussion thread.

"Alovenus gave herself the setting that she is immortal, can't die by any means

Alovenus suddenly felt as if something was piercing her heart. But that was just her imagination. There was nothing there in that place. To begin with, she was immortal. She had given herself the setting that she couldn’t be killed by any means. Even if a god-slaying spear or sword were to stab her, she would feel no pain and suffer no wound.-Chapter 187

Now this is important cause we all know about Ruphas and Alovenus transcendence, ie whatever they face they will just transcend, be above in ap grant resistances etc. The baseline of a God is that they can create concepts, and paint their own colors on the blank white canavas that contains all creation

“You’re indeed very strong, but I’m even stronger.”

In that instant, Ruphas’ power exceeded the setting that had been put in place by Alovenus.

Multiverse? I don’t care about such things. Infinite status? Well, whatever. Subversion of the setting? So what?

“I’m stronger than all of them.” Everything depends on this.

Strangely enough, as Alovenus herself had said, there was no concept of strength in a battle of this level anymore. Concepts, providences, laws, and even limits were all things that had been created by God. Therefore, there were no such things in the realm of God. They would just have to create their own based on their whims.
They were like trying to paint their own colors on a blank white canvas and enforce their own truths. Alovenus could do that, so there was no reason why they couldn’t do it themselves. After all, they were residents of the world that had been created by Alovenus. For the same reason, natural laws didn’t apply to them. In hindsight, this was probably why the laws of physics didn’t apply to them at all.-Chapter 187

Alovenus setting of immortality then is very literal, and nothing will kill her, unless you're like Ruphas and just transcend above her.

As posted above, "The ability to reverse time and make the opponent non-existent," is an ability Alovenus has, and it's again with fights on her level just a matter of ego, Ruphas could use this very same ability just by willing it, and it wouldn't kill Alovenus until Ruphas transcends higher again.

The translator of the series made a note about a previous translation, where another translator used the word "notion", which it more accurately means "concept". Examples of this:

"(i) During the fight between Alovenus and Ruphas, the “concept” of time was erased and time ceased to exist.

(ii) The raw for “The ability to seal all attacks and render the opponent incapable of taking defensive actions.” (chapter 187) is “攻撃という概念を破壊して攻撃そのものを封じ、防御という概念を消し去って防御行動を取れなくする。” or strictly translated as, “The ability to destroy the very concept of attack to disallow attacking and the ability to erase the very concept of defense so that the enemy becomes unable to take defensive actions.”

(iii) Alovenus would come back even if her HP was erased” is strictly “Alovenus would come back even if the very concept of her HP was erased”."

So from this we can gather even if the concept of Alovenus HP was erased, she would still come back. And again from the above posted quote, even if she was made non-existent she would still come back.

Does that qualify for NEP2, idk, but in terms of AWLBA, no matter what ability you used against Alovenus, she won't die, unless you're Ruphas and just transcend above her."

You have some other stuff about being able to absolutely destroy someone, piercing resistances or something

Alovenus laughed innocently like a child and continued her vicious attacks without ceasing.

The ability to absolutely kill anything that existed within the same space, penetrating all resistances.
The ability to reflect all attacks received.
The ability to reverse time and make the opponent non-existent.
The ability to win regardless of the process.
The ability to inflict the defeat condition on the opponent.
The ability to erase everything with a glance.
The ability to nullify all abilities.
The ability to seal all attacks and render the opponent incapable of taking defensive actions.
The abilities of all the gods from various mythos.
The abilities that were made up in fiction somewhere.
—She was using everything that she could think of, but Ruphas still didn’t disappear. The latter just couldn’t be stopped.But she was having so much fun that she couldn't help it.-Chapter 187

Ruphas swung her sword down, but Alovenus jumped and evaded it. Then, Alovenus flipped her dress and swung her blade, scattering slashes before Ruphas’ eyes. All of the scattered slashes had absolute accuracy and would inflict absolute destruction. But both of them cut each other’s slashes down, closed the distance, and crossed their blades again, sending out even more shockwaves. -Chapter 188

These statements about absolute destruction are from characters who explicitly have concept manipulation. Alovenus won't die even if conceptual erased, unless you're Ruphas and just transcend her.

The argument Bern could make is that Ruphas and Alovenus are dealing out conceptual attacks, Alovenus HP is zero, she is still capable of acting anyway. This would scale to Ruphas if accepted btw due to how battles on their level work.

 

[Arthurjosia]

I agree with hgr she can get it, but for nep 2 it only gets nep 1

A. Alovenus still capable to exist in the same case with non existence state





" or rendered non-existent, she would still return,"

what is the meaning of Non-existence



"The ability to reverse time and make the opponent non-existent."

This sentence meaning, alovenus capable still exist in this state ( non existence state) where as same case before you existed.

I mean, you exist in State before you exist is Nep2.

B. Alovenus still capable to exist although the Very concept Of Hp got erased / Her HP statistic got erased.









So the conclusion is:

1. alovenus capable still exist in this state ( non existence state) where as same case before you existed

2. Alovenus capable to still exist although her very concept HP got eras

 

[Bernkastelll]

I agree with hgr she can get it

Already has

 

[Dereck03]

This just HGR... And NEP??? hmmm.... NEP1 at the best and is still highly debatable

 

[Fixxed]

This just HGR,... And NEP??? hmmm.... NEP1 at the best and is still highly debatable

Why is Nep1?

alovenus capable still exist in this state ( non existence state) where as same case before you existed

I mean, you exist in State before your exist is Nep2??

 

[Antoniofer]

OK, so is just top tier Immortality, that could also involve top tier regen (what type? Don't known, people no longer comes to consistent agreement). But this guy does not turn nonexistent, it's still there, receiving attacks, without losing its definition or something like, it simply wouldn't die.

 

[Fixxed]

OK, so is just top tier Immortality, that could also involve top tier regen (what type? Don't known, people no longer comes to consistent agreement). But this guy does not turn nonexistent, it's still there, receiving attacks, without losing its definition or something like, it simply wouldn't die.

On next chapter, the author give more explanation about immortality Alovenus

Naturally, the Goddess didn’t die because of this. Death would not come to her by any means except for suicide. Even if her soul was destroyed, erased without any traces left, or rendered non-existent, she would still return, calmly and brazenly.

188

My argument is simple,
Alovenus got rendered non existence and it same case with before you existed ITS gained Nep2(The ability to reverse time and make the opponent non-existent)

i mean you capable exist in state where as you before you existed its gained Nep2

 

[Planck69]

My argument is simple,
Alovenus got rendered non existence and it same case with before you existed ITS gained Nep2(The ability to reverse time and make the opponent non-existent)

i mean you capable exist in state where as you before you existed its gained Nep2

This isn't NEP Type 2 to begin with.

 

[Fixxed]

This isn't NEP Type 2 to begin with.

Can you give the reason?

 

[Planck69]

Can you give the reason?

What do you mean "can you give the reason"? As far as wiki standards go, this isn't NEP Type 2.

 

[Fixxed]

What do you mean "can you give the reason"? As far as wiki standards go, this isn't NEP Type 2.

You are exist on state where as you before you existed
This more like Nep type 2, its lack of everything because you never existed

 

[Planck69]

You are exist on state where as you before you existed
This more like Nep type 2, its lack of everything because you never existed

It's more like NEP Type 1 + some weird form of Acausality. Nothing about it qualifies for NEP Type 2 at all.

 

[Fixxed]

It's more like NEP Type 1 + some weird form of Acausality. Nothing about it qualifies for NEP Type 2 at all.

NEP type 1 still have the foundation (Concept/ something like that) for Nep2 ITS lack of everything

 

[Planck69]

NEP type 1 still have the foundation (Concept/ something like that) for Nep2 ITS lack of everything

You need more proof than a random statement like this for Type 2.

 

[Fixxed]

You need more proof than a random statement like this for Type 2.

Still exist after very concept of Hp got erased....

 

[Planck69]

Still exist after very concept of Hp got erased....

Seeing as we have no idea how this HP correlates to their existence at all, this doesn't mean anything.

 

[Megaraptor149]

I agree for Alovenus NEP2

Because, she itself still exist though erased until nonexist and her concept of HP erased. In other word Alovenus itself she don't have any concept after erased but still exist

 

[Fixxed]

Seeing as we have no idea how this HP correlates to their existence at all, this doesn't mean anything.

First hp can become a foundation of character

I commanded Dina who had ended up where I was because she was still attached to my back.
[Star of Asclepius] was a resurrection skill belonging to the highest-tiered Water attribute divine magic.
The effect of the skill was to fully recover the HP of all allies within the specified area around the user whilst stripping all status buffs, irrespective of their effects, and it also came with the effect of resurrecting the dead.
However, within X-Gate Online, resurrection skills had a time limit. The skill had to be used on the dead within a specified time limit or else they would be sent back to the town to respawn and would end up suffering a death penalty debuff.[2]
Needless to say, in this world, death was permanent, thus there was no such kind feature as being sent back to town to respawn with a death penalty debuff.
In fact, back in the game, when the magical beasts’ HP reached 0, they would only be forcibly retired from the battle. Thus, it was impossible for them to die in the first place. Nevertheless, they would most likely die as per normal in this world.-Chapter 115

and if Hp 0= death. If you dead and your Hp got recovery you Will be got ressurected, Okay this not changing anything but in this case alovenus Is Very concept Of Hp Got erased, not only a HP.

She still exist after The very concept of Hp got erased. And The concept of Hp is much deeper than normal body, soul,Mind (because if your Hp become 0, your body, mind, soul Will death)

-Alovenus would come back even if her HP was erased” is strictly “Alovenus would come back even if the very concept of her HP was erased”. (Translator note) . You can check the Translator note in Here

You need more proof than a random statement like this for Type 2.

Also,. This is not random statement. Because in this battle ruphas & alovenus Is all out.

Btw, hp is being concept of character is got accepted because ruphas/Alovenus already have HGR

 

[Megaraptor149]

First hp can become a foundation of character



and if Hp 0= death. If you dead and your Hp got recovery you Will be got ressurected, Okay this not changing anything but in this case alovenus Is Very concept Of Hp Got erased, not only a HP.

She still exist after The very concept of Hp got erased. And The concept of Hp is much deeper than normal body, soul,Mind (because if your Hp become 0, your body, mind, soul Will death)




Also,. This is not random statement. Because in this battle ruphas & alovenus Is all out.

Btw, hp is being concept of character is got accepted because ruphas/Alovenus already have HGR

So, if the very concept of HP it's Foundation of Existence Alovenus itself.

I think, it's must accept for NEP2 Alovenus

 

[Delta333]

What part says that she can exist in nonexistent state?From what I understand she returns to reality from the destruction of HP,which is simply regeneration feat and even NEP type 1 is still uncertain

 

[Fixxed]

What part says that she can exist in nonexistent state?From what I understand she returns to reality from the destruction of HP,which is simply regeneration feat and even NEP type 1 is still uncertain

Afterall many character got Nep2+Hgr with same feats
Example: UEG from Id (You can check the profile)

I mean, if alovenus become non existence= NEP2
If she back= HGR

Also the supporter feats its Very concept of Hp got erased, she still exist...

 

[Delta333]

Afterall many character got Nep2+Hgr with same feats
Example: UEG from Id (You can check the profile)

I mean, if alovenus become non existence= NEP2
If she back= HGR

Also the supporter feats its Very concept of Hp got erased, she still exist...

So simply you mean all characters that have HGR due to being capable of regenerating up to conceptual level will have NEP type 2 by default?

 

[Fixxed]

So simply you mean all characters that have HGR due to being capable of regenerating up to conceptual level will have NEP type 2 by default?

Probably, This is what exactly i mean
And im confusing with this tho..

 

[Delta333]

Probably, This is what exactly i mean

oh so I totally disagree with everything in this thread,I can list tons of characters that don't have NEP type 2 even when they have HGR if you want

 

[Fixxed]

oh so I totally disagree with everything in this thread,I can list tons of characters that don't have NEP type 2 even when they have HGR if you want

Idc bruh. Also alovenus have supporter feats tho. Also you don't have a good reason for reject this CRT

 

[Delta333]

Idc bruh. Also alovenus have supporter feats tho. Also you don't have a good reason for reject this CRT

Good reason?Because regenerating from nothingness is different with existing in that state,that is really basic thing
Your supporting feat only said that she would come back even when the concept of her HP was erased and thus she would not die,which still doesn't mean existing in non-existence

 

[Fixxed]

Good reason?Because regenerating from nothingness is different with existing in that state,that is really basic thing
Your supporting feat only said that she would come back even when the concept of her HP was erased and thus she would not die,which still doesn't mean existing in non-existence

Graham from Mgkf regeneration from nothingness tho , and he have Nep2

 

[Lormac_CC]

From what is can see NEP type 1 and HGR are very acceptable, NEP 2 is a no for me, "She would come back even if the concept HP was erased" this is HGR not NEP

 

[Delta333]

Graham from Mgkf regeneration from nothingness tho , and he have Nep2

Graham himself is the void