Nemurin Vs Kumagawa

[Firephoenixearl]

^ ^ Speed Equalized boi.

 

[DodoNova2]

^ ^
Speed Equalized boi.

It depends on how the attack is activated, for example Kumagawa Vs Zen'o, Kumagawa needs a thought while zen'o has to raise his hands
A thought >> a gesture

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It depends on how the attack is activated, for example Kumagawa Vs Zen'o, Kumagawa needs a thought while zen'o has to raise his hands
A thought >> a gesture

Yeah a thought is as fast as it gets, the only thing faster is instant/passive.

 

[DMB_1]

Kuma still has yet to find a way to deal with Death Manipulation, Incorporeality, Reality Warping, Conceptual Manipulation, Nigh-Omniscience and her own EE.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Kuma still has yet to find a way to deal with Death Manipulation, Incorporeality, Reality Warping, Conceptual Manipulation, Nigh-Omniscience and her own EE.

None of which will activate faster than All Fiction.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

None of which will activate faster than All Fiction.

First, we never established if her's is instant or not.

Second, Kumagawa never erases people in-character.

Nemurin take this for having ways around All Fiction

 

[Firephoenixearl]

First, we never established if her's is instant or not.

Second, Kumagawa never erases people in-character.

Nemurin take this for having ways around All Fiction

Yeah but u forget why Kumagawa is scary to begin with doe, Bookmaker which he uses more often and will use in any case should he want to finish the fight quick enough, also erasing the dream world is in character for Kumagawa, he likes to brain *** ppl through erasing stuff (ezumachi and colors, zenkichi and his eyesight, his aura vs zenkichi etc), so he just erases the dream world to brain *** Nemurin then he realizes he screwed her for good with that move and goes like "Without dreams there can be no happy moments, no matter how u spin this...I lose again". Nemurin may have ways around All Fiction, but All Fiction just nulls everything with a thought.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Alright, here's a question. If you power null(Bookmaker) someone(Nemurin) inside a world(this dream world) they brought you(Kumagawa) too, with their power, what happens? Are both combatants now traped in said world, or are they booted out?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Alright, here's a question. If you power null(Bookmaker) someone(Nemurin) inside a world(this dream world) they brought you(Kumagawa) too, with their power, what happens? Are both combatants now traped in said world, or are they booted out?

That's a nasty question. If the dream world is said someone's (nemurin's) ability (has the ability to create the dream world) then both are kicked out, as the said user will have their powers sealed, if it's to transport...i'll think about it. Cus i mean every kind of power is negated, so imma say both get kicked out unless they got there by some teleport mean? It's kinda weird tbh, but All Fiction can take care of that either way.

 

[A6colute]

but All Fiction can take care of that either way

All Fiction never affected 4D space in the Medaka Box manga.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Dream Manipulation: Nemurin's magic is to enter and act freely in a realm known only as the Dream World, acting as its own universe.

To me now it's Inconclusive for a different reason. Nemurin teleports Kumagawa and herself to the Dream World, Kumagawa Bookmaker's her or All Fiction's her and now Kumagawa has effectivly BFRed himself. He has no dimentional travel skill.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Just a couple things:

1) Nemurin is dead in the real world, but is still alive in the Dream World in which she now permanently lives.

2) Because of this, if the DW is (somehow) ever destroyed, Nemurin dies as well as she has no irl body to return to.

3) Nemurin can't forcefully pull people inside the DW. They must first fall asleep, after which they will enter the DW.

4) If she wishes to, Nemurin can apply anything she does to someone in the DW to the real world. So if Nemurin uses existence erasure and she desires it, her target will also be erased from the real world.

5) Since there's no particular rule for their state of mind here, then it means that, via "Standard Battle Assumptions", the characters are in-character but willing to kill. This means that, while neither are traditionally willing to bring out the big guns, they still will do so here.

 

[DodoNova2]

• Nemurin: 0
• Kumagawa: 0
• Inconclusive: 1 (ApiesDeathbyLazors)

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

@GoldenScorpions

Alright then, If Nemurin pulls in Kumagawa while asleep then what happens if she dies? Does he wake up? Could he wake up?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

That's... unknown. She hasn't killed anyone in-universe, and nobody is strong enough to do anything to her or the DW.

Unless A6 has info from further-ahead volumes.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Then for now I'll stand by what I said earlier. Kumagawa defeating/powernulling Nemurin means he BFRs himself right into an Inconclusive.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Then for now I'll stand by what I said earlier. Kumagawa defeating/powernulling Nemurin means he BFRs himself right into an Inconclusive.

And if he just erases the dream world or the action that got him there it would work. He erased the action of stabing his classmates, also erasing Nemurin in the dream world would probably get him back as "nemurin" never happened and never brought him there in the first place.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

I honestly don't believe he can erase the Dream World. I was refering more to Bookmaker nulling her and traping him in the Dream.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Okay here he said that he can make Reality into nothing.





Here however he says that he can make everything into nothing.




Plus then he confirms that he can make things he already erased into nothing. So if the Dream World is not in the reality, but Kumagawa truly can make everything into nothing, I don't see how he would be unable to erase the Dream World.

 

[DodoNova2]

You can vote also OvO

 

[A6colute]

I don't see how he would be unable to erase the Dream World.

Go Kumagawa vs Featherine.

 

[A6colute]

3) Nemurin can't forcefully pull people inside the DW. They must first fall asleep, after which they will enter the DW.

But she can. In Drama CD her Antenna forcefully pulled several MGs from different universes inside the DW.

I was refering more to Bookmaker nulling her

If Nemurin doesn't want - nothing can reach her in the DW.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

I don't see how he would be unable to erase the Dream World.
Go Kumagawa vs Featherine.

Yes bcuz Nemurin is obviously Featherine.

 

[A6colute]

Yes bcuz Nemurin is obviously Featherine.

You said:

Kumagawa truly can make everything into nothing

And everything means everything.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

I quoted what he himself stated, but in a unsure way.

Obviously, nobody knows if he truly meant it or if he was just playing around, although it doesn't look like he does in the panel.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes bcuz Nemurin is obviously Featherine.You said:
Kumagawa truly can make everything into nothing

And everything means everything.

Yeah everything means everything, if kumagawa wanted he could erase all the multiple universes in an instant, though Featherine makes it so he just doesn't do that, don't go off topic.

Nemurin has power over the dream world, it's hard to have powers over what doesn't exist (all fiction the dream world away), or when she doesn't have power in the dream world (all fiction her powers away or bookmakers her).

 

[A6colute]

he could erase all the multiple universes in an instant

No, he couldn't.

He cannot erase even a single universe.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

he could erase all the multiple universes in an instant
No, he couldn't.

He cannot erase even a single universe.

That's about as true as me saying "nemurin has no powers over the dream world everything is just a lie". Show me ur proof for him not being able to erase a single universe, i'd like to hear it.

 

[A6colute]

Show me ur proof for him not being able to erase a single universe, i'd like to hear it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Show me ur proof for him not being able to erase a single universe, i'd like to hear it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

Oh so that's what u meant. Not only is that "not" how u start off, u don't just disclaim something since you don't know about it, u just ask for proof, but there is proof if u just scroll up.

https://streamable.com/j9k4g

Proof he can erase shit on a universal level with ease.

Unknow with All Fiction (It was stated that his lack of full control over his powers could wind up with him erasing all of existence. All of existence in a verse with multiple universe (at least that much).

As for scans

 

[Unforgiven0815]

he could erase all the multiple universes in an instant
No, he couldn't.

He cannot erase even a single universe.

Sighs.

 

[Tteerit]

So, is everyone forgets that Kumagawa was in the dream world where she could remove and make any power inside? Because she can remove everything that can be considered "Power" from him and then GG.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So, is everyone forgets that Kumagawa was in the dream world where she could remove and make any power inside? Because she can remove everything that can be considered "Power" from him and then GG.

Psst, speed is equal, the moment she tries that the dream world will be gone or her powers will be taking a trip to vegas.

 

[Tteerit]

Wait, this match isn't on bloodlusted is it? Then, would Kumagawa in character go for deleting dream world first thing?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Wait, this match isn't on bloodlusted is it? Then, would Kumagawa in character go for deleting dream world first thing?

He erased colors from existence to brain *** someone who controled colors, erased the concept of sight from someone who fought with his eyes closed in order to make him feel the terror of being blind, broke through the defensive hax of some girl who turned any attack into nothing. And uses Bookmaker when he wants to end a fight quickly (bookmaker is way out of Nemurin's league btw, she's not getting past that).

 

[Tteerit]

Yeah, I know that. But what you telling me is the feat he did with his powers. What I'm asking you is whether he's going to play with her first or he's going to start off by shutting down her power because that's would assume that he knows her power beforehand the battle and try to shut her off ass quickly as possible. Like that guy with color, for example; the reason why he realizes to erase the concept of color was that he already knows his power. In this case, however, he's going in blind. The moment Nemurin use her power to manipulate him, it's already too late. But if he's going for bookmarker or all fiction first then she's done. That's why I'm asking.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He does go with Bookmaker quite a bit actually, though he prefers to mind *** his opponents old style rather than erasing them from existence, cus there aren't rly "enemies" in Medaka Box. Though in those cases where there has been an "opponent" he did bring the Bookmaker into play.

 

[Tteerit]

Hmm...I'm not sure. Is there any way to know what he considers his "opponent"? Like, what is the baseline? My vote could go either way.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Hmm...I'm not sure. Is there any way to know what he considers his "opponent"? Like, what is the baseline? My vote could go either way.

Anyone he's going to fight is his "opponent", but i mean there are no "enemies" in Medaka Box, as Medaka is that one unbeatable gal that reforms everyone and makes them good. No one dies permanently in the manga (except for ajimu's temporal death).

 

[A6colute]

Proof he can erase shit on a universal level with ease.

Kumagawa - can affect every point of space (3D) in the universe.

Nemurin (in DW) - can affect every point of space-time (3D + time = 4D) of several universes.

So, Nemurin infinitely stronger than Kumagawa.