Nekron no longer bad?!?! (DC Comics Nekron rework and potential Captain Atom upgrade)

[Confluctor]

isn't this High? last time regenerating yourself from pure energy is Hight, unless it's a unique type of energy like psychic/spiritual energy

Nah, it's low Godly. It was essentially his spirit.

But either way, even regening from being energy itself, with his whole existence being reduced to just energy would be at least low godly.

Also, you are mistaken about high. Simply put, you get high as long as you regen from a physical thing such as an atom or molecule.

The ability to regenerate from a few scattered or lone molecules, atoms, or sub-atomic particles.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Fair

 

[Antvasima]

But in the meantime, what about the ap upgrade? As the title say, this will also upgrade captain atom's tier while absorbing/channeling the entirety of the Quantum Realm

It seems to make sense to me at least, but we preferably need a bit further input.

 

[Antvasima]

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @Planck69 @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Armorchompy @Kulf_Boba @LephyrTheRevanchist @Alonik

Would you be willing to help out here please?

 

[Confluctor]

Weeks long wait awaits

 

[Armorchompy]

What's the point of contention here?

 

[Firestorm808]

I made a few edits to the sandbox.

I don't think Tanked attacks from countless Lanterns fit for the durability justification.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I made a few edits to the sandbox.

I don't think Tanked attacks from countless Lanterns fit for the durability justification.

Why? He didn't seem to be KO'd or anything

 

[Confluctor]

I don't think Tanked attacks from countless Lanterns fit for the durability justification.

Why not? There were lanterns left and right attacking him and he was just standing there.

 

[Confluctor]

What's the point of contention here?

Possibly Low 1C Nekron in the world of Unliving. Bumping him up to tier 1 will also bump up captain atom's tier there - with abosorbtion/entirety of quantum realm only.

 

[Firestorm808]

Why not? There were lanterns left and right attacking him and he was just standing there.

Why? He didn't seem to be KO'd or anything

I don't see why the feat is used to justify Low Multiversal, possibly Multiversal+ durability.

 

[Confluctor]

Because hal Jordan and them lot have 2c to 2a stuff at peak, obviously. And it would be weird to assume hal Jordan was not going all out against him here when he was against most death infected entities just few seconds before it.

 

[Firestorm808]

Hal Jordan's Raw Willpower key does not apply to the fight with Nekron. Are there other lanterns during this fight that have Low Multiversal, possibly Multiversal+ keys that apply to this fight?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Hal Jordan's Raw Willpower key does not apply to the fight with Nekron. Are there other lanterns during this fight that have Low Multiversal, possibly Multiversal+ keys that apply to this fight?

Why does his raw willpower key not apply here?

 

[Firestorm808]

He did not get this key until after using Krona's Gauntlet and experiencing its side effects.

 

[Confluctor]

I just realised for some stupid reasons we do not list 2c/2a for hal post crisis. That's the dumbest thing ever tf. He has wayyy too many feats and shit at that level. And got a lot in the Johns run too.

But fine, for now, I will remove it. Can't add as long as hal and them lot don't have their peak keys for post crisis. And I really can't be asked to revise him too.

 

[Antvasima]

I just realised for some stupid reasons we do not list 2c/2a for hal post crisis. That's the dumbest thing ever tf. He has wayyy too many feats and shit at that level. And got a lot in the Johns run too.

But fine, for now, I will remove it. Can't add as long as hal and them lot don't have their peak keys for post crisis. And I really can't be asked to revise him too.

I don't mind if you upgrade Hal, if he has reliable feats on that scale.

 

[Firestorm808]

Should we handle that in a separate thread for all the Post-Crisis herald tiers?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if you are willing to put in the work for it, sure, but characters like Hal Jordan, and especially Wally West, have feats enormously above anything that Superman or Wonder Woman have demonstrated, for example. We cannot chain-scale all of them to each other just because of the "everybody can fight everybody" principle.

 

[Confluctor]

Firestorm, I don't mind helping with that. But first we need to create a new scaling chain for all DC heralds, where they should scale - like who scales to who, and are they scaling directly, upscaling or downscaling?

 

[Firestorm808]

I'll have my records prepared.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. Our DC Comics cosmology revision project is obviously more prioritised though.

 

[Confluctor]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

What do we currently have to do here?

 

[Confluctor]

Tier 1 stuff. Aside from you (which was an agreement), no one else has commented regarding that yet.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. If you write a single post which explains what needs to be evaluated here in an easY to understand manner, one of us can likely ask our knowledgeable members for input again afterwards. (I am going on a partial vacation for a few days, starting tomorrow, so probably you in this case.)

 

[Confluctor]

But in the meantime, what about the ap upgrade? As the title say, this will also upgrade captain atom's tier while absorbing/channeling the entirety of the Quantum Realm

Possibly Low Complex Multiverse level in the World of the Unliving (Is considered an aspect of true death, likely comparable to the Black Racer.[15] Seemingly ordered the Black Racer to do his bidding for him.[15][8])

 

[Antvasima]

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @Planck69 @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Armorchompy @Kulf_Boba @LephyrTheRevanchist @Alonik

https://vsbattles.com/threads/nekron-no-longer-bad-dc-comics-nekron-rework-and-potential-captain-atom-upgrade.136378/post-4794540

Would any of you be willing to help out with evaluations here please?

 

[LordTracer]

There should preferably be a scan for Nekron ordering the Black Racer around.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Confluctor]

There should preferably be a scan for Nekron ordering the Black Racer around.

It happens over a course of multiple issues - this is the finale to a big arc anyway. But essentially, this scan here is the most explicit we can get to it. It wouldn't make sense unless you read the prior 5 or 6 issues.

 

[LordTracer]

It happens over a course of multiple issues - this is the finale to a big arc anyway. But essentially, this scan here is the most explicit we can get to it. It wouldn't make sense unless you read the prior 5 or 6 issues.

Mkay, then Possibly Low 1-C should be fine.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I disagree with Tier 1 if you don't also include Death of the Endless, he is considered the ultimate death as compared to her. It would be weird cherry picking to only include Black Racer, so either include her or don't even use that feat

 

[Confluctor]

Since she is probably going to get downgraded to like low 1c one day, I don't mind adding her then

 

[LuciferDC099]

I disagree with scaling Nekron to Death of the Endless.

Neil Gaiman (creator of the character) stated that she will claim even Nekron and Black Racer so he disagrees with the idea of Nekron being the "ultimate death". Since we'll split cosmologies in the near future and most of the Death's major feats are written by Gaiman we can't scale Nekron to her.

Also there's many statements about Death of the Endless being the true death in DC/Vertigo cosmology, she definitely isn't an aspect of the greater being.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I disagree with scaling Nekron to Death of the Endless.

Neil Gaiman (creator of the character) stated that she will claim even Nekron and Black Racer so he disagrees with the idea of Nekron being the "ultimate death". Since we'll split cosmologies in the near future and most of the Death's major feats are written by Gaiman we can't scale Nekron to her.

Also there's many statements about Death of the Endless being the true death in DC/Vertigo cosmology, she definitely isn't an aspect of the greater being.

Neil Gaiman does not have authority over another author's story. Neil Gaiman himself has opinions on DC that differ from other authors (that's Tom King). Neil Gaiman could have just not read that captain atom comic. If you wanna use author statements, here's an article by a DC writer that explains why different writers have different opinions on DC and what matters more is just the company as a whole and the published stories.

Also, the comic disagrees with Neil Gaiman and his word cannot be more valid than what's published

Being the true death doesn't mean she's the ultimate death, Nekron himself is also truly death itself, and Black Racer being a god is the most perfect concept of death as mentioned in DC Comics: Anatomy of a Metahuman

 

[LuciferDC099]

Neil Gaiman does not have authority over another author's story. Neil Gaiman himself has opinions on DC that differ from other authors (that's Tom King). Neil Gaiman could have just not read that captain atom comic. If you wanna use author statements, here's an article by a DC writer that explains why different writers have different opinions on DC and what matters more is just the company as a whole and the published stories.

Yeah, that's the point. We will split cosmology in the near future so we can't scale Nekron do Death due to differences between authors.

Also, the comic disagrees with Neil Gaiman and his word cannot be more valid than what's published

There's ton of in-comic statements about Death of the Endless being the ultimate death. She definitely isn't an aspect of a greater being in DC/Vertigo cosmology.

Being the true death doesn't mean she's the ultimate death, Nekron himself is also truly death itself, and Black Racer being a god is the most perfect concept of death as mentioned in DC Comics: Anatomy of a Metahuman

By saying "true death" i meant that she isn't an aspect of a greater being.

 

[Confluctor]

I disagree with scaling Nekron to Death of the Endless.

Neil Gaiman (creator of the character) stated that she will claim even Nekron and Black Racer so he disagrees with the idea of Nekron being the "ultimate death". Since we'll split cosmologies in the near future and most of the Death's major feats are written by Gaiman we can't scale Nekron to her.

Also there's many statements about Death of the Endless being the true death in DC/Vertigo cosmology, she definitely isn't an aspect of the greater being.

Comic scans or worthless. We don't even use guidebooks for the two verses, let alone wog. So it should be disregarded here too.

 

[Confluctor]

Anyway, scaling to Black Racer is more than enough. And also dimensionality placement should warrant at least the possibly rating

 

[LuciferDC099]

Comic scans or worthless. We don't even use guidebooks for the two verses, let alone wog. So it should be disregarded here too.

I don't have time to find and post scans atm so sorry but you can find these scans in Elizio33's cosmology sandboxes:

The Endless are ideas encompassing everything within their sphere - what we see are simple points of view (Sandman Vol 2 #71)

The Endless are humanoid manifestations of the primal truths of the universe, oversee every aspect of the reality created by the Presence (DC Comics Encyclopedia: Updated and Expanded)

Only Death will outlast this version of the Creation (Sandman Vol 2 #48)

At the end of the universe Death will claim Destiny of the Endless (the last living being) and will survive the end of the universe (The Books of Magic Vol 1 #4)

According to Silkman, Death of the Endless is literally the death of all things (Lucifer Vol 1 #75), even ideas stopped dying when Death refused to do her job (Vertigo: Winter's Edge #2)