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Neco-Arc 1-C (yes.)

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Paul_Frank said:
Anyway as for the upgrade I made it clear in the last attempt at this, even if you don't go with it being a gag or non literal, this is just a massive outlier because of either it scaling to others and being an outlier for that (this sorta just objectively, if you use literally any way to scale this to her power, scales to the entirety of the OG series, since she is repeatedly and explicitly stated to be the same power level wise), even just for her it's a huge outlier, her best feat besides this is creating the routes using the second magic and pieces of worlds which existed already, as opposed to idk, complex multiversal tuna nukes, which would have been very useful in her quest to destroy the Melty Blood world, instead of getting Mash.
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Well it was discussed, and it was agreed that it doesn't physically scale to anyone. Neco Arc is shown flying away from the blast, so its heavily implied she wasn't caught in it anyways. The bomb getting the rating should be fine though.

Paul_Frank said:
Although no one actually addressed Deon's point about it just being the top texture btw, to answer "why would it show the milky way if it was just the top layer", the entire known universe is part of the top layer. The top layer expands with humanity's knowledge, and as of LB5, we were told very clearly that even during the time of the Greeks, outer space was a layer (because they knew of it)

In the modern world, the limits of our modern knowledge is the extent of the top layer, along with all laws of physics and such that we know of, actual space, where the real versions of planets are (where Types come from) would then be outside of the top layer

So Deon's point about this all arguably just being in the top layer still stands

If you wanted ratings for Neco Arc it's better honestly to just wait for actual remake profiles and scale her off those rather than the Last Arc
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Uhh sure ig. I do agree it'd be best to wait for Remake Profiles and such
 
Paul_Frank said:
Anyway as for the upgrade I made it clear in the last attempt at this, even if you don't go with it being a gag or non literal, this is just a massive outlier because of either it scaling to others and being an outlier for that (this sorta just objectively, if you use literally any way to scale this to her power, scales to the entirety of the OG series, since she is repeatedly and explicitly stated to be the same power level wise), even just for her it's a huge outlier, her best feat besides this is creating the routes using the second magic and pieces of worlds which existed already, as opposed to idk, complex multiversal tuna nukes, which would have been very useful in her quest to destroy the Melty Blood world, instead of getting Mash.
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Remake Neco is a slightly different entity, though.

Also gag feats have been accepted before, just look at arales entire profile.
 
CrackerVolley said:
That still doesn't justify you jumping the gun on the heavy profile editing, Marshadow.
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maxresdefault.jpg
 
Paul_Frank said:
As for the idea of "they're the same entity" no, they aren't. We're told that Neco Arc is actually something Zelretch brought to our world, she's not even from the same world as Arcueid, there's also an entire lore on her species (Neco Spirits) and their home, and none of it is at all similar to Arc, they are very different, so her just getting all of Arc's stuff is gonna have to be a hard no
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While they are seperate entities, they are extremly similar. If they arent, explain why Arc turns into Neco-Arc in Kagetsu Tohya? Explain some characters refer to the Neco-Arc of Melty Blood as if she were Arcueid herself? Explain why she posses a variation of Arceuids technique? Her just having luminous body confirms that she shares many similarities to the True Ancestors
 
Marshadow29 said:
While they are seperate entities, they are extremly similar. If they arent, explain why Arc turns into Neco-Arc in Kagetsu Tohya?
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As a gag, those scenes are comedic very obviously, even the wiki which I'm sure is where you're getting this info from, says as much
Marshadow29 said:
Explain some characters refer to the Neco-Arc of Melty Blood as if she were Arcueid herself?
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Because she looks like Arcueid, again, thats the entire joke.
Marshadow29 said:
Explain why she posses a variation of Arceuids technique?
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Because that's literally the entire joke/gimmick, she has "variations" similar in name and nothing else at the absolute best, or are completely nonsensical at worst.

Like idk, I'd rather trust Aoko on whether or not Neco Arc is the work of a fellow wizard who she knows the abilities of, than say "actually she's wrong and Neco Arc is actually just Arc".

Hell, even saying "they're similar" doesn't give any grounds to just give her Arc's stuff, that's only really an argument if you're arguing they're the same entity, which they aren't.
Marshadow29 said:
Her just having luminous body confirms that she shares many similarities to the True Ancestors
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No it does not, because there's nothing suggesting her luminous body is similar, it's just the name from what I remember
Marshadow29 said:
Remake Neco is a slightly different entity, though.
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No, she explicitly says (and all stuff referencing her says this too) that she is merely the original one upgraded slightly, and that now she's gone from a 0:10 battle ratio to a 5:5 against the same characters, with it being noted that that means she hasn't actually changed at all
Marshadow29 said:
Also gag feats have been accepted before, just look at arales entire profile.
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Yes, gag feats for a gag character from a gag series is very different from a gag character from an otherwise serious series which would scale to others and be an outlier if taken seriously, this is a massive false equivalency

Violatas said:
Well it was discussed, and it was agreed that it doesn't physically scale to anyone. Neco Arc is shown flying away from the blast, so its heavily implied she wasn't caught in it anyways. The bomb getting the rating should be fine though.
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The issue is there's other ways to scale it to her besides her being hit by the blast or not which were brought up last time (Neco Akiha and her explicitly having all the same abilities, and them saying it'd be an infinite stalemate, implying that attack wouldn't beat either of them, a similar thing happening with Neco Ciel, etc)
 
Paul_Frank said:
The issue is there's other ways to scale it to her besides her being hit by the blast or not which were brought up last time (Neco Akiha and her explicitly having all the same abilities, and them saying it'd be an infinite stalemate, implying that attack wouldn't beat either of them, a similar thing happening with Neco Ciel, etc)
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The newest ladder shows us Neco Arc being beaten though by a much less inferior attack. Here in the Boss Rush posted below. Neco just says that other versions of her exist in other in other endings/timelines that'll prolly continue where she left off even if she dies. Even then, nothing happens after a week time skip after what's posted here at 27:23.


The "infinite stalemate" doesn't mean much when its likely referring to how versions of the existing Neco Arcs likely exist. Or even more likely (since this is in character for Neco Arc), just bragging as well. That's like, 90% of Neco Arc's speech lol
 
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Violatas said:
The newest ladder shows us Neco Arc being beaten though by a much less inferior attack. Here in the Boss Rush posted below. Neco just says that other versions of her exist in other in other endings/timelines that'll prolly continue where she left off even if she dies. Even then, nothing happens after a week time skip after what's posted here at 27:23.


The "infinite stalemate" doesn't mean much when its likely referring to how versions of the existing Neco Arcs likely exist. Or even more likely (since this is in character for Neco Arc), just bragging as well. That's like, 90% of Neco Arc's speech lol
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No it definitely didn't have anything to do with other versions, it was infinite stalemate as in the two of them fighting wouldn't make any headway. Her exact line being "we have the same reach, strength and commands, we should be desperate rivals forever locked in a stalemate". And then she goes on to say she could win because she's used to fighting herself. She's saying that without her experience against herself, neither of them would have beat the other, and both of them have the same commands, which means they both have the Last Arc, and she didn't think that'd make the fight go in one of their favors without her having the experience edge.

Further, she also didn't brag too much against these Neco enemies, Neco Akiha as shown, she thought it would be a stalemate, the bragging is at most saying she has more experience against herself, against Neco Ciel, she straight up says she couldn't win without getting her down first, etc

And Neco Arc dying to much weaker stuff is part of my point yes, it further shows that this is just an outlier if taken seriously. She dies to weaker stuff, and nothing else she has, including literal true magic stuff, has been on this scale.

Even if we don't want to scale this to the rest of her stats for whatever reason, we run into the issue of it scaling to the rocket and to people from there, because the animation does not show or imply that the rocket escapes the galaxy. This same rocket has a hole torn through it by Miyako with a volleyball, which means she'd scale to or above this, and then that creates issues ofc
 
Paul_Frank said:
No it definitely didn't have anything to do with other versions, it was infinite stalemate as in the two of them fighting wouldn't make any headway. Her exact line being "we have the same reach, strength and commands, we should be desperate rivals forever locked in a stalemate". And then she goes on to say she could win because she's used to fighting herself. She's saying that without her experience against herself, neither of them would have beat the other, and both of them have the same commands, which means they both have the Last Arc, and she didn't think that'd make the fight go in one of their favors without her having the experience edge

Further, she also didn't brag too much against these Neco enemies, Neco Akiha as shown, she thought it would be a stalemate, the bragging is at most saying she has more experience against herself, against Neco Ciel, she straight up says she couldn't win without getting her down first, etc
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On this, Neco winning because of an experience edge alone just means we know she can in fact prolly can win even without it. An experience advantage wouldn't suddenly boost her stats or anything. Why would an "infinite stalemate" turn into not a stalemate just because of that edge? She isn't suddenly dishing out 5x damage or anything. It gave her an edge yes, but Neco Akiha losing to virtually the same stats speaks volumes about them fighting "indefinitely."

Also she never said she couldn't be Neco Ciel unless she got her down. Neco Arc just says she doesn't remember what happened during the fight. Yet she still won (somehow).
Paul_Frank said:
Even if we don't want to scale this to the rest of her stats for whatever reason, we run into the issue of it scaling to the rocket and to people from there, because the animation does not show or imply that the rocket escapes the galaxy.
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Its why she flies away in the first place. There's no reason Neco would've flown away before dropping the bomb otherwise. That goes against the entire point of her trying to fly away from it.

Also, the rocket isn't on screen during the galaxy explosion. She's already cleared the top part of the screen.

And last point, every appearance for Neco Arc are in the joke ladders. I don't see why this would scale to the other characters when Neco Arc should be scaled differently from the main cast. Not that I think the bomb physically scales to her regardless.
 
yeah the attack is simply just something neco arc has in her arsenal, it doesn't scale to her physically (i've long changed my opinion on that) so it should clearly just be 1-C (or whatever the rating is nowadays) with that attack and that attack only.
 
Paul_Frank said:
No it does not, because there's nothing suggesting her luminous body is similar, it's just the name from what I remember
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Similar naming convention still by default implies the technique is similar. Also she has an attack literally called the "True Ancestor" beam, an attack described as vaguely familiar
 
Marshadow29 said:
Similar naming convention still by default implies the technique is similar. Also she has an attack literally called the "True Ancestor" beam, an attack described as vaguely familiar
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why would we assume that Neco-Arc's Luminous body is of the same quality as Arcueid when they are not remotely similar (in terms of race)? That's like saying that Kiba's Shadow Clone is the same as Naruto's Shadow Clones. Or that Krillen's Kamehameha is as strong as Goku's.
 
Anyways I'm fine with the bomb being galaxy minimum but like I've said above, it SHOULDN'T physically scale to anyone. As for the Luminous stuff, we really should wait until we have Remake profiles, calcs, and how we handle scaling to Remake Arc later
 
KingNanaya said:
why would we assume that Neco-Arc's Luminous body is of the same quality as Arcueid when they are not remotely similar (in terms of race)? That's like saying that Kiba's Shadow Clone is the same as Naruto's Shadow Clones. Or that Krillen's Kamehameha is as strong as Goku's.
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Luminous body itself implies they are similar in terms of race ( its a race specific technique, and even then, only royalty can use it)
 
We still need more staff to review this thread.
I'd prolly just try to push for the galaxy level minimum for the Last Arc bomb and moving on with this thread. Luminous stuff could be discussed later whenever we get Remake profiles on here. Don't see that getting accepted atm.
 
deonment said:
Why would this not only occur within a single one of the earth's textures rather than the true universe?
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Adrianelloxd said:
This makes more sense to me than blindly speculating Neco-Arc blew up all of the other layers along with earth, and everything else.

How I understand it, is that this would've happened in the texture on the surface of Earth rather than to the entire complex we know as "World", I think at most it would burn away the texture. And since tsukihime is another timeline/parallel world, it's essentially just the human texture IIRC, feel free to correct me on that. Something along the lines of what was described when Enkidu and Gil clashed enuma elish'es - the world was born and destroyed 7 times but it seemingly was only recorded in the Mesopotamian texture in the age of gods or how Ragnarok only affects the end of reality in the Scandinavian AoG.
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I also agree with both these points hence why I think the galaxy end for the bomb is safest, unless someone has a counter.
 
Adrianelloxd said:
This makes more sense to me than blindly speculating Neco-Arc blew up all of the other layers along with earth, and everything else.

How I understand it, is that this would've happened in the texture on the surface of Earth rather than to the entire complex we know as "World", I think at most it would burn away the texture. And since tsukihime is another timeline/parallel world, it's essentially just the human texture IIRC, feel free to correct me on that. Something along the lines of what was described when Enkidu and Gil clashed enuma elish'es - the world was born and destroyed 7 times but it seemingly was only recorded in the Mesopotamian texture in the age of gods or how Ragnarok only affects the end of reality in the Scandinavian AoG.
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Neco-Arc is neither human or has any tie to mythology in the nasuverse,s o im not sure how that would apply
 
How would what apply exactly?
The point is the feat is shown to be blowing up a galaxy, not a texture itself. I mentioned at most if you were able to destroy Earth along with the explosion, the texture might go down along with it but I'm not so sure about how textures react to the physical destruction of Earth. Usually what destroys a texture is something like the end of reality; Ragnarok or Enuma Elish, which I mentioned happened in two different textures that existed during the Age of Gods but were never recorded in other textures.
It's an explosion that happened inside a texture.

[even then, I see it more as an exaggerated flash created from the impact of the tuna can but she's a gag character so I don't really care]
Being human or belonging to a mythology has no relevance at all.
 
Adrianelloxd said:
How would what apply exactly?
The point is the feat is shown to be blowing up a galaxy, not a texture itself. I mentioned at most if you were able to destroy Earth along with the explosion, the texture might go down along with it but I'm not so sure about how textures react to the physical destruction of Earth. Usually what destroys a texture is something like the end of reality; Ragnarok or Enuma Elish, which I mentioned happened in two different textures that existed during the Age of Gods but were never recorded in other textures.
It's an explosion that happened inside a texture.

[even then, I see it more as an exaggerated flash created from the impact of the tuna can but she's a gag character so I don't really care]
Being human or belonging to a mythology has no relevance at all.
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iirc its a protective measure set up by gaia ( which is the reason why its near impossible for earth born creatures to destroy the earth) neco-arc does not originate from the earth, hence my point
 
Marshadow29 said:
iirc its a protective measure set up by gaia ( which is the reason why its near impossible for earth born creatures to destroy the earth) neco-arc does not originate from the earth, hence my point
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@Marshadow29 I'd recommend telling mods about this if you haven't already before this thread dies. Most at least seem fine with a galaxy rating for the bomb.
 
Marshadow29 said:
wouldnt be only galaxy level because of the funny way the nasuverse works, but which mods? i tried when the thread was still new
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I was referring to the argument that the bomb was only affecting the galaxy and not the Textures brought up above
deonment said:
Why would this not only occur within a single one of the earth's textures rather than the true universe?
Click to expand...
Here. I'm not opposed to a "possible" rating for 1-C though
 
Violatas said:
I was referring to the argument that the bomb was only affecting the galaxy and not the Textures brought up above

Here. I'm not opposed to a "possible" rating for 1-C though
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That would just reveal the reverse side, which im not sure if the last arc did or not.
 
Marshadow29 said:
That would just reveal the reverse side, which im not sure if the last arc did or not.
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Oh so it'd still be 1-C then? If so, then sure. I guess that.
But yeah most seem fine with bomb getting that high. The Luminous stuff you'll prolly have to try again for at a later date tho
 
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