Natsu Dragneel vs Kakine Teitoku

[TISSG7Redgrave]

this is natsu Post Second Timeskip LDK Mode and kakine post revival

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Natsu_Dragneel

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Kakine_Teitoku


Starts at fairy tail guild


Who wins and state your reasons

 

[GreatestSin]

dark matter kakine is immortal, without atomization (or even than since his dark matter can regenerate from a single piece) he wont die, i wouldnt say he has higher stats than natsu but unfortunatly natsu gets exhausted, and since natsu can atomize something i will go with kakine who will be forced to wait but in the end win the battle

 

[LazyHunter]

Isn't this a bit unfair for Natsu? He's slower and more importantly, he has no way to deal with Dark Matter Kakine's Regenerationn and hax. He only has an edge in Durability and AP, which is countered hard by Kakine's regen and quantum attacks. Either Kakine kills him in a straight battle or Natsu manages to survive until his stamina depletes and is too tired to keep fighting, so he gets killed by Kakine too. And this is without taking into account Kakine can just multiply himself and create an army of regenerating copies and Dark Matter beings, which, while weaker than Natsu, would help him restrict his movements and tire him out faster. There's also the possibility of Kakine creating flame-resistant Dark Matter.

Either way, Kakine wins this one.

 

[Reppuzan]

This... is so one sided it isn't funny. Natsu loses in literally every department and there's nothing he can do to dodge 20,000 types of radiation.

Gee, does everyone hate Natsu that much to put him on threads like these?

 

[Gemmysaur]

Kakine wouldn't bother with Natsu. He ignores Natsu, and spreads Clonekine all over Fiore, enslaving all hot girls in the process.

Pimpkine 10/10

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Kakine is too haxs for natsu.

 

[Aurasuke]

Really? Really? A tier 7-B vs a tier 6-C who can probably take on accelerator and potentially beat if he if doesn't use his Angel form?

 

[LordAizenSama]

Post Revival Kakine has the same AP/DC as his base form, Someone should probably add them to his profile so people don't get confused

 

[Aurasuke]

Well not exactly, Beetle 05 fought against Rensa with Angel wings meaning that post revival could likely do the same. Beetle 05 is a being made of completely dark matter while Kakine is the original esper.

 

[LordAizenSama]

that was Kakine's standard Dark Matter wings, If the original kakine forgot and didn't know about his previous awakening, I doubt beetle 05 does.

also my recollection of that fight was that Beetle05 got owned by rensa

 

[Gemmysaur]

Do we call this is as a win for Kakine then? Doesn't look like anyone would be supporting Nakamatsu anytime soon.

 

[Aurasuke]

Well actually beetle 05 teamed up with Touma. Alone he couldn't beat Rensa who had accelerator's wings (though it was described she had no halo so maybe accelerator is stronger in angel form) Together they kind of beat Rensa.

I also remembered something else though. Othinius at 50/50 form pretty much pwned a winged Kakine after reiviving him again using Bersi. I remebered how wings of light stretched across the sky and Othinius pretty much just pwned him using her own strength quite literally.

 

[Aurasuke]

Apparently Kakine soloed entire one piece verse, big mismatch imo lol

 

[LordAizenSama]

Well actually beetle 05 teamed up with Touma. Alone he couldn't beat Rensa who had accelerator's wings (though it was described she had no halo so maybe accelerator is stronger in angel form) Together they kind of beat Rensa.
I also remembered something else though. Othinius at 50/50 form pretty much pwned a winged Kakine after reiviving him again using Bersi. I remebered how wings of light stretched across the sky and Othinius pretty much just pwned him using her own strength quite literally.

He was getting Owned by Rensa even BEFORE she was using the darkwings/Whitewings

also i'm not sure about the Othinus Thing, he did forget his awakening when he fought accelerator again, but the way those wings were described are likely his awakened form, in either case his profile would need some tweaking/upgrades

 

[ZERO7772]

mismatch

this thread turned into kakine vs accel because natsu isn't match at all i doubt there anyone in FT verse can take on kakine the only person i can think to take kakine is erza because she's erza

kakine stomp

 

[Nibbler3100]

I don't see how Kakine would even get near Natsu with his flame aura it was shown to melt an entire colisseum with his mode it set the ground on fire in a big radius. Natsu could take this battle his Power can break through Kakine's Inferior Durability he was able to blitz Zeref so he should be higher than Hypersonic+ at least High Hypersonic so they can compete & exchange blows with his new dragon king mode and I'm not sure what kind of attacks Kakine uses but it says he uses explosions and Natsu has been shown to eat those on a daily basis the only problem seems to be his regen but would it work if he takes one of those City Busting punches and is left as dust.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Kakine is faster than Natsu with high hypersonic speeds and MHS reactions. Natsu, who doesn't even start any fight beyond using a flaming punch of doom, won't hit him.

Kakine also doesn't just use explosions. His power is dark matter, which essentially allows him to do whatever he wants most of the time. Natsu isn't tanking durability-ignoring dark matter beams on a quantum level.

He also has high regen (on the quantum level), allowing him to survive getting burned out by Natsu even with just a part of him gets left unvaporized.

Lastly, Kakine-clones.

So no, Natsu still loses.

 

[Nibbler3100]

True but Natsu is smart if he sees his attacks not connecting he'd switch up his stytle maybe punch the ground and create a massive explosion. Kakine won't know explosions don't work on him until he does it and makes him stronger from it. The Dark Matter seems like a Problem but when you think about it aren't those just like Zeref's Black Death Magic attacks which Natsu has shown to be able to burn in his new mode if he is unable to dodge (which I don't see why not unless they're MHS - Light Speed) I don't know how it was possible but he's done it lol. So far it doesn't seem like any of Kakine's attacks would work he's not a high-tier Dark matter manipulator which allows you to control all 4 fundamental forces or Transmute anything.

 

[Gemmysaur]

~Snip

Kakine wouldn't bother with explosions. It's not like Natsu if faster than him or is a huge giant thing for him to use it. He'd likely to go with zergrushing with clones or just blasting him with beams.

Where did you even get the Kakine's Dark Matter = Zeref's Dark Magic anyway?

Also, Kakine is far, far, far smarter than Natsu. He sees Natsu dodging one, he'd predict every other way Natsu can dodge. Or clone rush grabbing Natsu and beam away unless Natsu would rather burn away the clones first which will leave him open to beams.

Low-level? You mean bend the rules of physics to some degree, sometimes even ignoring it? Pull a Naruto move and clone himself indefinitely winning this via battle of attrition? Created an attack that went through Accelerator's shields because it was a new existence? 20,000 types of radiation, none of which Natsu has ever encountered before?

Low-level to higher powers maybe, but it's good enough a level to beat Natsu whether by attrition, or by durability-ignoring beams.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Mmmhmm, I guess theres also the option of just disintergrating him in the dark matter.

 

[GreatestSin]

also i'm not sure about the Othinus Thing, he did forget his awakening when he fought accelerator again, but the way those wings were described are likely his awakened form, in either case his profile would need some tweaking/upgrades

as far as i remember the novel only seemed to describe the scene with "dark matter wings spreading around the island", i never got the impression that he awakened after losing his human body :I

btw, for the thread: guys, lets please use feats, everyone agrees that the matter kakine uses could have inifite amount of uses but this is NLF, we cant assume it simply because it was said, the same way we cant assume saitama is limitless simply because ot was said...

either way, like i said before, kakine wont win in a straight fight since natsu has higher stats but all kakine needs to do is to create clones and cause natsu to get exhausted than he can easily kill him

 

[LordAizenSama]

nobody is abusing/using NLF.. Kakine can bypass durability, it says so right on his profile..

 

[GreatestSin]

nobody is abusing/using NLF.. Kakine can bypass durability, it says so right on his profile..

his "durability bypassing" comes from the feat with accelerator, because i cant remember a sinlge other time anything closely similar happened, either way, it wasnt ignoring durability, im sure you know the details so i dont need to write them again but it had to do with the unique characteristic of accelerators shield and only his shield, ordinary durability (like tanking with the body) was never ignored by kakine as far as i remember...

PS: with NLF i mean the part where someone posted about the "infinite usages thing"

 

[LordAizenSama]

it doesn't come from the fact that it pierced his reflection, it comes from the fact it works on a quantam level. and it's shown when he disolves matter with his dark matter.

 

[GreatestSin]

it doesn't come from the fact that it pierced his reflection, it comes from the fact it works on a quantam level. and it's shown when he disolves matter with his dark matter.

can you give me the part where this happened? i can remember that he manipulated harmless photons into dangerous laser-beams but the destruction of matter on atomic scale is new

 

[LordAizenSama]

the very same pages where he spread his dark matter over the island.

EDIT:It's in New Testament 8 Page 104

 

[GreatestSin]

the very same pages where he spread his dark matter over the island.
EDIT:It's in New Testament 8 Page 104

thanks but didnt he connect himself with the electronic? i have read that part a few weeks ago but it didnt look like he was destroying the cables, it was more like he connects himself with the technology and "assimilates" it into himself (like fusion), unfortunatly bakatsuki is down, i would like to look at it again

 

[LordAizenSama]

the computers were already connected to him.

I didn't wanna post quotes because of the walls of text, but here:

"The Dark Matter ate into the objects around him as if flowing back through the electrodes

and cables meant to control the device known as Kakine Teitoku. All color turned to white

and the electronic devices at the other end of the cables were swallowed up in an instant.

He spread out through each and every one of the cables set up like a spider web. He devoured all of the computers, all

of the power sources allowing those computers to run, and everything else they were

connected to. He bit into them, swallowed them, digested them, and turned them all into

a part of him."

 

[LazyHunter]

True but Natsu is smart if he sees his attacks not connecting he'd switch up his stytle maybe punch the ground and create a massive explosion. Kakine won't know explosions don't work on him until he does it and makes him stronger from it. The Dark Matter seems like a Problem but when you think about it aren't those just like Zeref's Black Death Magic attacks which Natsu has shown to be able to burn in his new mode if he is unable to dodge (which I don't see why not unless they're MHS - Light Speed) I don't know how it was possible but he's done it lol. So far it doesn't seem like any of Kakine's attacks would work he's not a high-tier Dark matter manipulator which allows you to control all 4 fundamental forces or Transmute anything.

By this point it's obvious you don't know anything about Kakine. I've read both Index and Fairy Tail and trust me, Kakine is beyond Natsu's current league because of his hax, it's not even funny. I'll explain it point for point.

Point 1 - Dark Matter: Your comparison of Kakine's Dark Matter to Zeref's Death Magic or to other Dark Matter manipulator (would be nice if you said who in particular, but it doesn't really matter since it's unrelated to the fight) shows you don't know how his Dark Matter works, but to be fair his page needs a bit of tweaking. This should probably be added to his page to stop any further misunderstanding:

Dark Matter allows Kakine to create and control an unknown material, which is not to be confused with the true Dark Matter which is among the components of the universe. Dark Matter is just the name Kakine chose for his ability. In addition, 'unknown matter' here does not mean matter that has not been discovered by humans but matter that did not exist until it was created by Teitoku. The material he creates defies the laws of physics in any way Kakine chooses, allowing him to produce 25,000 different types of energy or to turn harmless sunlight into deadly light through refraction, create an invisible pressure on humans, etc.He can use the substance and shape it in any form he desires.

So no, it's nothing like Zeref's death magic. Natsu burning Zeref's Death Magic means little here, since unlike him Kakine's Dark Matter regenerates on a quantum level.

Point 2 - Kakine's attacks: Kakine's attacks are much more than simple explosions. They reach the level of Durability Negation quantum attacks, and his angel wings and Dark Matter can disintegrate matter. Natsu's higher Durability is useless.

Point 3 - Kakine's Regen: Kakine regenerates from any particle of Dark Matter left anywhere in the world. If you don't get how broken is this, consider that Kakine only has to leave one/several small Dark Matter bugs/particles away from the fight (which will cost him absolutely nothing) and he can keep respawning indefinitely in the impossible case of Natsu destroying all the Dark Matter near him. And he has used this kind of ability before. Beetle 05's main body also survived a hit from Rensa's Dark Wings, so unless you're trying to argue that Natsu is stronger than Accel's Dark Wings I fail to see what Natsu's attacks would do to him. Also, so far Zeref has shown a lower level of regen than Kakine and Natsu couldn't kill him with his attacks in Flame Dragon King mode. Natsu's higher AP is useless.

Point 3 - Speed: Check Kakine's page; High Hypersonic speed + MHS close combat speed + reactions. Natsu is not touching him, especially in close range, which is Natsu's fighting style..

Point 4 - Possibility of even bigger stomp: Considering how Kakine can create Dark Matter that defies the laws of physics however he wishes it's just a matter of time before he starts making the Dark Matter he creates resistant to heat and fire, if it isn't one of his first moves upon seeign Natsu's power is fire. Admittedly, Kakine is an arrogant overconfident prick because of his great power, so he might not even bother, especially considering he doesn't actually need it to win this fight.

Point 5 - Kakine's intelligence: Kakine, like all high level espers, is a genius superior in intellect to normal humans, so he's also much smarter than Natsu, who's uses the classic shonen hero tactic of "charge straight in, blow everything up with brute strength" more than 90% of the time. While somewhat offset by his arrogance, his worst moments have been always caused by his inferiority complex towards Accelerator. As proof, Beetle 05 has none of his pride problems because of his more stable personality. So he wouldn't be that impaired when he's fighting Natsu.

Point 6 - Stamina: Even if after all of this you somehow still believe Natsu can match Kakine in combat you need to consider that Natsu is going to get tired and run out of energy eventually, which'll be pretty fast if Kakine keeps harassing him with his attacks and his army of copies and Dark Matter beings. Kakine's Dark Matter body is beyond the needs for food, water or sleep, so he's definitely above Natsu in stamina too. Plus he's going to keep creating Dark Matter during the fight that is going in turn to create more Dark Matter, so he's getting harder and harder to kill with every moment. Add to it that Natsu's best card, the Flame Dragon King mode, it's him using the remaining energy left by Igneel so he can't replenish it. Once it's gone, it's gone.

I got this passage from the novels:

Countless spears shot from the white puddle filling one section of the underground passageway. They accurately targeted Accelerator and Mugino Shizuri. They would be difficult to evade. And even if they succeeded, they had nowhere left to go. Kakine Teitoku's ultimate creation ability gave him as much time, resources and physical strength as he wanted. He was the worst possible enemy for Accelerator and Mugino Shizuri who had instantaneous firepower in the form of explosive destructive power.

They would eventually reach their limit, they would eventually find themselves cornered, and they would eventually lose their lives.

Kakine Teitoku did not have to worry about when or where that eventuality occurred. He only needed to wait for its arrival no matter how long it took. He did not have to worry about his own consumption. If he merely waited for victory to come his way, his wish would be granted. It was the ultimate wastefulness, the ultimate lazyness, and the ultimate desecration. The #2 had gained the ability to extend the idea of 'sitting and waiting' to a level where it threatened to bring humanity to extinction.

And this one:

"It's no use. Information is exchanged between the different blocks, but there is no direct connection. The blocks can freely communicate wihtout any direct wiring, so your attacks cannot reach me. I suppose it is similar to an electronic wiretapping system that intentionally crosses the wires via alien crosstalk. An attack across those lines cannot reach me because the lines are not actually connected."

"Then I will destroy it all."

"As you do, I will be expanding the network. With every piece expanding at the same time, it will expand exponentially".

Conclusion: Kakine wins this easily.

 

[LordAizenSama]

^holy..wall of...text. that would defeat any final boss XD

 

[GreatestSin]

^this is the exact part, kamachi uses sometimes confusing sentences to describe the happenings in the story, therefore i never took this words literally, all i understood is that kakine was using his dark matter and forcibly took control of the electronics and the computers,

as example: the moment in Vol.15 where accelerator awakened the text said that accelerator screamed and the scream reached all over the world, but it isnt to be taken literally, it simply meant that the scream was really really strong

im sure the same applies to kakine's case too

 

[LordAizenSama]

I dont get what you mean, Kakine's ability works on a quantum level which means it bypasses conventional durability as mentioned on his page.

and by the text I posted it's quite clear to me it's disintergrating matter, considering the level of control (quantum) dark matter has. unless you think hes physically eating the stuff.

 

[LazyHunter]

^this is the exact part, kamachi uses sometimes confusing sentences to describe the happenings in the story, therefore i never took this words literally, all i understood is that kakine was using his dark matter and forcibly took control of the electronics and the computers,
as example: the moment in Vol.15 where accelerator awakened the text said that accelerator screamed and the scream reached all over the world, but it isnt to be taken literally, it simply meant that the scream was really really strong

im sure the same applies to kakine's case too

Seems you have trouble understanding Kamachi's metaphors. He uses them to make powers easier to understand, but you are taking the first one literally. It has nothing to do with kakine taking over electronics and computers. Kakine is talking about how his Dark Matter is not connected at a physical level, so Accelerator can only destroy the Dark Matter he's touching, which will not bother all the other existing Dark Matter. Kakine's conscience is in every part of Dark Matter, and Dark Matter expands exponentially, making him really hard to put down, especially if all you have is physical destruction.

You're right in the second, it's just a way to say Accel screamed really hard, but the other is a valid explanation on how Kakine's powers post-revival work.

 

[GreatestSin]

^im not talking about accelerator vs kakine, im talking about what lordaizen posted, the part of "digesting and etc etc", it seems to me like it is a metaphoric speech (the one i can remember directly is the one with accel), kamachi often uses this way of writing in order to give the scene more "impact", for example he uses three different descriptions for a single event,He bit into them, swallowed them, digested them, and turned them all into a part of him. i dont think this should be taken literally ^_^

@lordaizen

not physically, like is said, it should be metaphorical, that means that he isnt desintegrating the matter, he is "connecting" himself with it, this is what i think the scene seems to try describe in a impressive/epic-like manner

 

[LazyHunter]

^im not talking about accelerator vs kakine, im talking about what lordaizen posted, the part of "digesting and etc etc", it seems to me like it is a metaphoric speech (the one i can remember directly is the one with accel), kamachi often uses this way of writing in order to give the scene more "impact", for example he uses three different descriptions for a single event,He bit into them, swallowed them, digested them, and turned them all into a part of him. i dont think this should be taken literally ^_^
@lordaizen

not physically, like is said, it should be metaphorical, that means that he isnt desintegrating the matter, he is "connecting" himself with it, this is what i think the scene seems to try describe in a impressive/epic-like manner

I think LordAizen's text is pretty clear: Kakine's Dark Matter is covering nearby objects and eating into them.

 

[GreatestSin]

I think LordAizen's text is pretty clear: Kakine's Dark Matter is covering nearby objects and eating into them.

yes, eating into them, like in "going into them" and "digesting them and turning them into a part of himself" which simply means that kakine took control over the electronics, i dont see why kakine should desintegrate the electronics if he connects with them, in "matter of fact"-situations kamachi is straightforward, as example look at the attack of fiammas planet-busting beam after absorbing IB, the IT/dragon showed up and split the beam in two pieces, they hit the wall behins touma, no further explanation because it was to be take literally...

 

[LordAizenSama]

it literally says it becomes apart of him. he wanted to destroy it, not take control of it (for whatever possible reason he would even want to do that).

Anyway this is veering way offtopic, as it is Kakine can bypass traditional durability, so treat this thread as such because I don't want it derailed.

Of Course if you still want to discuss anything on Kakine's Page you're free to make a thread for it, but I can't guarantee results would come of it due to how busy everyone is. and considering it's right anyway, it may be better to just drop it

 

[LazyHunter]

I think LordAizen's text is pretty clear: Kakine's Dark Matter is covering nearby objects and eating into them.

yes, eating into them, like in "going into them" and "digesting them and turning them into a part of himself" which simply means that kakine took control over the electronics, i dont see why kakine should desintegrate the electronics if he connects with them, in "matter of fact"-situations kamachi is straightforward, as example look at the attack of fiammas planet-busting beam after absorbing IB, the IT/dragon showed up and split the beam in two pieces, they hit the wall behins touma, no further explanation because it was to be take literally...

Even if you were right it does nothing to change the fact Kakine still wins the fight, he still can negate durability.

 

[Nibbler3100]

I see thank you for explaining, Kakine would take it due to all of those reasons

 

[Gemmysaur]

So, do we count this as a win for Kakine?