Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

[Elesia011]

The live of her event. And even her Japanese title as a grand tell that the place is Vacant

Kannou mentioned that Musashi was holding the title of Grand solely for the purpose of the "Grand Duel." That phrasing feels very specific.
But thinking about it a second time, maybe it simply means Musashi was holding the Grand title, and her disappearance against Chaos left the position vacant.

Also, her Grand Battle version seems to have some interesting lines like this one

「五輪体現！ 顕密陰陽、天元一気！ 冠位の頂いただき、知るがいい！」

I’m not sure if they should be taken at face value, though.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

I was wondering… if INS will be 1-A or Low 1-A, would the Throne of Heroes be higher? The argument of INS being “adimensional”. Also the one Tsukihime R statement where Kiara, despite transcending to higher dimensions, can never fully escape the universe no matter how many times she ascends.

The Part 2 Finale was pretty crazy so a lot of these stuff would probably benefit the eventual cosmology thread and Magic system thread.

 

[Elesia011]

I was wondering… if INS will be 1-A or Low 1-A, would the Throne of Heroes be higher? The argument of INS being “adimensional”. Also the one Tsukihime R statement where Kiara, despite transcending to higher dimensions, can never fully escape the universe no matter how many times she ascends.

The Part 2 Finale was pretty crazy so a lot of these stuff would probably benefit the eventual cosmology thread and Magic system thread.

We've received some additional 1-A input if I'm not mistaken.
Basically, the latest chapter clarifies once again that the gap between dimensions is an ontological one or at least that should be the case for human souls.
The analogy used describes the soul as being a dimension above the corporeal plane, and consequently above the physicality of the 3D world. From this perspective, the soul perceived in the corporeal world is merely a shadow of the real thing, cast from the higher dimension.



Other than that. the final act got many interesting things to work with.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

We've received some additional 1-A input if I'm not mistaken.
Basically, the latest chapter clarifies once again that the gap between dimensions is an ontological one or at least that should be the case for human souls.
The analogy used describes the soul as being a dimension above the corporeal plane, and consequently above the physicality of the 3D world. From this perspective, the soul perceived in the corporeal world is merely a shadow of the real thing, cast from the higher dimension.



Other than that. the final act got many interesting things to work with.

Interesting! Thanks for answering.

Also yes, the final act has a lot of interesting feats and lore! Like universal bombs, a recreation of the Root but not actually, Qin affecting the Throne of Heroes directly… wow Nasu pulled all the stops here!

 

[Elesia011]

Interesting! Thanks for answering.

Also yes, the final act has a lot of interesting feats and lore! Like universal bombs, a recreation of the Root but not actually, Qin affecting the Throne of Heroes directly… wow Nasu pulled all the stops here!

We also have clear and final evidence that possibilities in the Nasuverse operate on a universal scale but are constrained between Textures. There’s even a built-in backup for this: whatever happened in the FGO timeline like the universe erasure didn’t affect the Servant universe at all, which is itself another possibility for humanity history.

Despite all the new materials on the powerscaling side, I’m not sure I was satisfied with the ending itself. It felt short, and Olga literally dying from overweight has to be a troll. Nasu made her a victim from start to finish, and Maris felt more like a plot device to wrap everything up. The ending wasn’t terrible, but I expected something grander given all the teasing and hype Nasu built up.

The temple of time had more impact on me than this finale, which came across like a reskinned Fate stay night + temple of time battle. I barely felt better than when I realized old Moriarty knew about Holmes’s true identity before anyone else.

 

[Regidian]

Kannou mentioned that Musashi was holding the title of Grand solely for the purpose of the "Grand Duel." That phrasing feels very specific.
But thinking about it a second time, maybe it simply means Musashi was holding the Grand title, and her disappearance against Chaos left the position vacant.

Also, her Grand Battle version seems to have some interesting lines like this one

「五輪体現！ 顕密陰陽、天元一気！ 冠位の頂いただき、知るがいい！」

I’m not sure if they should be taken at face value, though.

We know she wasn’t a grand in lb5.

 

[Regidian]

We also have clear and final evidence that possibilities in the Nasuverse operate on a universal scale but are constrained between Textures. There’s even a built-in backup for this: whatever happened in the FGO timeline like the universe erasure didn’t affect the Servant universe at all, which is itself another possibility for humanity history.

Despite all the new materials on the powerscaling side, I’m not sure I was satisfied with the ending itself. It felt short, and Olga literally dying from overweight has to be a troll. Nasu made her a victim from start to finish, and Maris felt more like a plot device to wrap everything up. The ending wasn’t terrible, but I expected something grander given all the teasing and hype Nasu built up.

The temple of time had more impact on me than this finale, which came across like a reskinned Fate stay night + temple of time battle. I barely felt better than when I realized old Moriarty knew about Holmes’s true identity before anyone else.

the ending of Olga is a common thing of nasu. He did practically the same stupid thing in Arcueid true ending

 

[Cainlaneve]

I was wondering… if INS will be 1-A or Low 1-A, would the Throne of Heroes be higher? The argument of INS being “adimensional”. Also the one Tsukihime R statement where Kiara, despite transcending to higher dimensions, can never fully escape the universe no matter how many times she ascends.

The Part 2 Finale was pretty crazy so a lot of these stuff would probably benefit the eventual cosmology thread and Magic system thread.

TOH has high scaling args considering that it's a "HIGHER dimensional" than everything else so more than likely its above INS

 

[Cainlaneve]

We also have clear and final evidence that possibilities in the Nasuverse operate on a universal scale but are constrained between Textures. There’s even a built-in backup for this: whatever happened in the FGO timeline like the universe erasure didn’t affect the Servant universe at all, which is itself another possibility for humanity history.

As far as i know servant universe should be part of the TRUE universe, the shit maris affected should be the observable universe, not the entire thing

 

[Deadlock-333]

Olga literally dying from overweight has to be a troll

 

[Elesia011]

As far as i know servant universe should be part of the TRUE universe, the shit maris affected should be the observable universe, not the entire thing

Fair point, but I don’t think the Servant Universe is part of the true universe, for one simple and good reason: its residents were originally humans. Five thousand years before the FGO timeline, they underwent a universe update that transformed them into Servants. This means natively they are humans who evolved into servants and there no need to even explain what's a servant and their function in the first place.

1. The fact that they were human means this is a story about humanity in other words, another possibility of Earth. "Human" refers specifically to the primate species of Earth alone; there aren’t two such species in the universe. Therefore, the Servant Universe cannot be part of the true universe. Instead, it is a parallel universe born from human history.
2. Servant Universe entities like Space Ishtar do not refer to the FGO timeline as their universe in the first place.
3. What even made you think the Servant Universe is part of the true universe? I mean even servants from the servant verse are registered in the throne which is an authority of the planet Earth.

 

[Cainlaneve]

Fair point, but I don’t think the Servant Universe is part of the true universe, for one simple and good reason: its residents were originally humans. Five thousand years before the FGO timeline, they underwent a universe update that transformed them into Servants. This means natively they are humans who evolved into servants and there no need to even explain what's a servant and their function in the first place.

1. The fact that they were human means this is a story about humanity in other words, another possibility of Earth. "Human" refers specifically to the primate species of Earth alone; there aren’t two such species in the universe. Therefore, the Servant Universe cannot be part of the true universe. Instead, it is a parallel universe born from human history.
2. Servant Universe entities like Space Ishtar do not refer to the FGO timeline as their universe in the first place.
3. What even made you think the Servant Universe is part of the true universe? I mean even servants from the servant verse are registered in the throne which is an authority of the planet Earth.

First thing is the fact that it's outside the planet (Which might be a wierd point) but also the fact that they were ALLOWED to become servants to begin with. That level of change allowed to a possibility to the scale that all humans essentially cease to become humans and death becoming a joke seems wierd

Outside of that i have no proper grounds to stand on this matter so yea (Also it's a bit wierd for me that a whole ass galaxy of servants could still be part of the possibility of human history especially after they ceased to be human

 

[Cainlaneve]

I mean it wasn't her weight but the weight of her saintgraph instead

 

[Elesia011]

First thing is the fact that it's outside the planet (Which might be a wierd point) but also the fact that they were ALLOWED to become servants to begin with. That level of change allowed to a possibility to the scale that all humans essentially cease to become humans and death becoming a joke seems wierd

Outside of that i have no proper grounds to stand on this matter so yea (Also it's a bit wierd for me that a whole ass galaxy of servants could still be part of the possibility of human history especially after they ceased to be human

I’m not sure where the misconception that a Texture is limited to Earth’s surface came from. Holmes already explained that a Texture isn’t just something physically placed on the planet’s surface. Instead, the Texture itself is the result of physical laws as humans understand them and their perception of the world.

Therefore, claiming that a Texture is anything smaller than at least the observable universe(space which we are confident it abides by the laws of physics as mankind knows it) is an assertion not really backed by the lore especially when a Texture confiscated by Arcueid contained 13.8 billion light-years worth of information and was implied to be infinite and even Maris Texture confiscation had at least and it was stated to have stored every observable galaxy observable from Earth. And if I recall correctly, even those who argued that possibilities weren’t universal in scale accepted that they should at least be solar system-sized.

All this is to say that, in both interpretations, the Texture of Earth extends far beyond Earth itself.

The part where it’s described as stitched on Earth’s surface shouldn’t be taken literally as it isn't a physical phenomenon and neither was it presented as a limitation in size.

 

[Cainlaneve]

The part where it’s described as stitched on Earth’s surface shouldn’t be taken literally as it isn't a physical phenomenon and neither was it presented as a limitation in size.

Oh, thnx for conforming, i thought that was the case the entire time. Thnx for clearing it up lol

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

I’m not sure where the misconception that a Texture is limited to Earth’s surface came from. Holmes already explained that a Texture isn’t just something physically placed on the planet’s surface. Instead, the Texture itself is the result of physical laws as humans understand them and their perception of the world.

Therefore, claiming that a Texture is anything smaller than at least the observable universe(space which we are confident it abides by the laws of physics as mankind knows it) is an assertion not really backed by the lore especially when a Texture confiscated by Arcueid contained 13.8 billion light-years worth of information and was implied to be infinite and even Maris Texture confiscation had at least and it was stated to have stored every observable galaxy observable from Earth. And if I recall correctly, even those who argued that possibilities weren’t universal in scale accepted that they should at least be solar system-sized.

All this is to say that, in both interpretations, the Texture of Earth extends far beyond Earth itself.

The part where it’s described as stitched on Earth’s surface shouldn’t be taken literally as it isn't a physical phenomenon and neither was it presented as a limitation in size.

Its so wacky how Nasuverse Earth is actually universal in size. Or maybe bigger, since Tsuki R has some fun statements regarding the universe’s size!

This is like One Piece’s planet being massive, but Nasuverse takes it way further.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Its so wacky how Nasuverse Earth is actually universal in size. Or maybe bigger, since Tsuki R has some fun statements regarding the universe’s size!

This is like One Piece’s planet being massive, but Nasuverse takes it way further.

Fraud piece wishes they were even comparable

 

[Elesia011]

Its so wacky how Nasuverse Earth is actually universal in size. Or maybe bigger, since Tsuki R has some fun statements regarding the universe’s size!

This is like One Piece’s planet being massive, but Nasuverse takes it way further.

Yeah, the Nasuverse's conception of space and how it handles it really defies standard physics. Just our fight with Maris inside the Hollow Earth pushed us to a distance of 13.8 billion light-years from the hole they made to enter the hollow Earth, according to Da Vinci’s speculation, since Maris wanted to position herself at the center of the universe.

Don’t ask me how it works, but in the Nasuverse, Earth can essentially have as much internal space as it needs. Chaldeas uses a similar principle, if I recall correctly, to expand the space inside the Shadow Border so that people can have entire rooms despite the Border looking smaller from outside.

 

[KLOL506]

What even is wrong with people?

They are told the verse is outdated and in need of major cosmological revisions and all the tags are put on, and yet they keep hounding on the old ratings and how wrong they are, having read nothing of the sort. Why are people like this.

 

[Regidian]

I’m not sure where the misconception that a Texture is limited to Earth’s surface came from. Holmes already explained that a Texture isn’t just something physically placed on the planet’s surface. Instead, the Texture itself is the result of physical laws as humans understand them and their perception of the world.

Therefore, claiming that a Texture is anything smaller than at least the observable universe(space which we are confident it abides by the laws of physics as mankind knows it) is an assertion not really backed by the lore especially when a Texture confiscated by Arcueid contained 13.8 billion light-years worth of information and was implied to be infinite and even Maris Texture confiscation had at least and it was stated to have stored every observable galaxy observable from Earth. And if I recall correctly, even those who argued that possibilities weren’t universal in scale accepted that they should at least be solar system-sized.

All this is to say that, in both interpretations, the Texture of Earth extends far beyond Earth itself.

The part where it’s described as stitched on Earth’s surface shouldn’t be taken literally as it isn't a physical phenomenon and neither was it presented as a limitation in size.

Texture don’t contain other life form than the one present on earth or have happen to earth ( like how type mars doesn’t exist in the texture of man in the planet mars but type ORT can exist because he is already on earth. And how the Greek god come to earth even in different timeline etc) so it wouldn’t be able to contain space Ishtar life form (she never come to earth technically in servant verse before universe update) + servantverse have their own type so it’s a weird case.

Texture can be universe in size tho. And they have their own timeline too since Arcade timeline is a timeline of fgo. But fgo is a timeline of the world (in the sense that since it’s a lostbelt timeline but it’s have his own different timeline)

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Chat, Fortnite scaling might be a thing in the future if this is real!

 

[Elesia011]

Texture don’t contain other life form than the one present on earth or have happen to earth ( like how type mars doesn’t exist in the texture of man in the planet mars but type ORT can exist because he is already on earth. And how the Greek god come to earth even in different timeline etc) so it wouldn’t be able to contain space Ishtar life form (she never come to earth technically in servant verse before universe update) + servantverse have their own type so it’s a weird case.

Texture can be universe in size tho. And they have their own timeline too since Arcade timeline is a timeline of fgo. But fgo is a timeline of the world (in the sense that since it’s a lostbelt timeline but it’s have his own different timeline)

That makes sense, especially if other celestial bodies function like Earth. In other words, what we perceive from Earth are celestial bodies according to how Earth wants mankind to perceive them. This makes the last chapter all the more confusing.

Da Vinci stated that the injured party in the universe update wasn't Earth, but rather the universe itself, a process that nullified lifeforms on every other celestial body. This implies that there are other lifeforms distinct from humans. Furthermore, Daybit implied in Lostbelt 7 that humans are a threat to the universe due to their undying will to survive.

If everything had gone according to Marisbury's plan, the FGO timeline would have effectively erased all universal lifeforms and celestial bodies except those of Earth.

While the existence of other Ultimate Ones in the FGO timeline can't be confirmed, the idea that celestial bodies host different life forms has already been established with them labelled as external factors unnecessary to mankind.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

What even is wrong with people?

They are told the verse is outdated and in need of major cosmological revisions and all the tags are put on, and yet they keep hounding on the old ratings and how wrong they are, having read nothing of the sort. Why are people like this.

What are you referring to? o.0

 

[Cainlaneve]

That makes sense, especially if other celestial bodies function like Earth. In other words, what we perceive from Earth are celestial bodies according to how Earth wants mankind to perceive them. This makes the last chapter all the more confusing.

Da Vinci stated that the injured party in the universe update wasn't Earth, but rather the universe itself, a process that nullified lifeforms on every other celestial body. This implies that there are other lifeforms distinct from humans. Furthermore, Daybit implied in Lostbelt 7 that humans are a threat to the universe due to their undying will to survive.

If everything had gone according to Marisbury's plan, the FGO timeline would have effectively erased all universal lifeforms and celestial bodies except those of Earth.

While the existence of other Ultimate Ones in the FGO timeline can't be confirmed, the idea that celestial bodies host different life forms has already been established with them labelled as external factors unnecessary to mankind.

Wasn't this a thing all the way in like, the servantverse??

 

[KLOL506]

What are you referring to? o.0

I've seen several people in this thread alone talking about downgrading from Tier 1 because they're nonsensical or something despite the proposed cosmological overhauls to replace the old justifications being in the works and the "outdated" tag being a thing.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

hey guys, who is the most powerful playable servant now? is it U olga marie??

 

[Elesia011]

Wasn't this a thing all the way in like, the servantverse??

You are right; I can sense a form of parallelism here as well.

hey guys, who is the most powerful playable servant now? is it U olga marie??

From what I have experienced, I think it's Logres if we are into gameplay.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

You are right; I can sense a form of parallelism here as well.

From what I have experienced, I think it's Logres if we are into gameplay.

i mean loreeee

 

[Regidian]

We don’t know since it depend on scalling, since the event of king Eliza we know that type exist in servantverse and they are kinda fodder. So someone like MHXX could be the strongest

and I’m pretty sure that Kulkukan is stronger than U-Olga already no?

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

i mean loreeee

The answer should probably be the same from what I've seen

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

EMIYA (Honkai: Star Rail)

Archer is a playable character in Honkai: Star Rail. Archer is the Archer-class Servant of Aventurine summoned during the Penacony Holy Grail War. His real name is EMIYA and he is dedicated to protecting his planet as a Heroic Spirit and Counter Guardian. Tier: Low 1-C, higher with Unlimited...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Altria Pendragon (Honkai: Star Rail)

Saber (セイバー Seibā?) is a playable character in Honkai: Star Rail. Saber is the Saber-class Servant of the Trailblazer summoned during the Penacony Holy Grail War. Her real name is Altria Pendragon, also known as King Arthur. She is the King of Knights who once ruled the kingdom of Britain. Tier...

vsbattles.fandom.com

New upgrade if anyone cares

 

[Mageman460]

"Altria"
I'm pretty sure once the big revisions go through, we'll be using Artoria for the pages. We currently do in fact.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

EMIYA (Honkai: Star Rail)

Archer is a playable character in Honkai: Star Rail. Archer is the Archer-class Servant of Aventurine summoned during the Penacony Holy Grail War. His real name is EMIYA and he is dedicated to protecting his planet as a Heroic Spirit and Counter Guardian. Tier: Low 1-C, higher with Unlimited...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Altria Pendragon (Honkai: Star Rail)

Saber (セイバー Seibā?) is a playable character in Honkai: Star Rail. Saber is the Saber-class Servant of the Trailblazer summoned during the Penacony Holy Grail War. Her real name is Altria Pendragon, also known as King Arthur. She is the King of Knights who once ruled the kingdom of Britain. Tier...

vsbattles.fandom.com

New upgrade if anyone cares

Oh that’s neat

Speaking of Honkai, I heard Irontomb vs ORT is a matchup, how thematic is that?

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

"Altria"
I'm pretty sure once the big revisions go through, we'll be using Artoria for the pages. We currently do in fact.

Nah, we should use Altria. It would be funny.

 

[LehenDuo]

Altria is outdated
Arutoria as it was meant to be is >>

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Artoria Pendragon (Saber) & EMIYA (Archer) Vs Zephyro (Honkai: Star Rail X Fate/Stay Night)

Saber & Archer Vs Zephyro Fight takes place on Earth Speed is equalized Fight OST:

vsbattles.com

 

[Black-san112]

Quick question for the guys who read the el melloi novels, is shirou there as strong physically as his HF self or is he stronger?
and would you say that is the strongest we saw him so far compared to his other human versions?

 

[Cainlaneve]

Quick question for the guys who read the el melloi novels, is shirou there as strong physically as his HF self or is he stronger?
and would you say that is the strongest we saw him so far compared to his other human versions?

I would say that the strongest version of shirou is still EMIYA by technicality (If we don't count servants then Miyuverse shirou with archer class card DEFINETLY is good for the strongest) and i don't count muramasa but if you do then you can say muramasa is the strongest shirou

 

[Black-san112]

I would say that the strongest version of shirou is still EMIYA by technicality (If we don't count servants then Miyuverse shirou with archer class card DEFINETLY is good for the strongest) and i don't count muramasa but if you do then you can say muramasa is the strongest shirou

I meant without including the servant variants, so only when he was a human

 

[Tdjwo]

I thought the strongest Shirou was Amakusa Shirou Tokisada aka Shirou Kotomine