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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

Elesia011 said:
The nature of Mysteries as a whole is not a power that originates from lower dimensions in the first place.

Could you provide the source confirming this? If that’s the case, then the theory about Musashi reaching the Root would need to be reexamined.
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The live of her event. And even her Japanese title as a grand tell that the place is Vacant
 
Regidian said:
The live of her event. And even her Japanese title as a grand tell that the place is Vacant
Click to expand...
Kannou mentioned that Musashi was holding the title of Grand solely for the purpose of the "Grand Duel." That phrasing feels very specific.
But thinking about it a second time, maybe it simply means Musashi was holding the Grand title, and her disappearance against Chaos left the position vacant.

Also, her Grand Battle version seems to have some interesting lines like this one

「五輪体現！ 顕密陰陽、天元一気！ 冠位の頂いただき、知るがいい！」

I’m not sure if they should be taken at face value, though.
 
I was wondering… if INS will be 1-A or Low 1-A, would the Throne of Heroes be higher? The argument of INS being “adimensional”. Also the one Tsukihime R statement where Kiara, despite transcending to higher dimensions, can never fully escape the universe no matter how many times she ascends.

The Part 2 Finale was pretty crazy so a lot of these stuff would probably benefit the eventual cosmology thread and Magic system thread.
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
I was wondering… if INS will be 1-A or Low 1-A, would the Throne of Heroes be higher? The argument of INS being “adimensional”. Also the one Tsukihime R statement where Kiara, despite transcending to higher dimensions, can never fully escape the universe no matter how many times she ascends.

The Part 2 Finale was pretty crazy so a lot of these stuff would probably benefit the eventual cosmology thread and Magic system thread.
Click to expand...
We've received some additional 1-A input if I'm not mistaken.
Basically, the latest chapter clarifies once again that the gap between dimensions is an ontological one or at least that should be the case for human souls.
The analogy used describes the soul as being a dimension above the corporeal plane, and consequently above the physicality of the 3D world. From this perspective, the soul perceived in the corporeal world is merely a shadow of the real thing, cast from the higher dimension.



Other than that. the final act got many interesting things to work with.
 
Elesia011 said:
We've received some additional 1-A input if I'm not mistaken.
Basically, the latest chapter clarifies once again that the gap between dimensions is an ontological one or at least that should be the case for human souls.
The analogy used describes the soul as being a dimension above the corporeal plane, and consequently above the physicality of the 3D world. From this perspective, the soul perceived in the corporeal world is merely a shadow of the real thing, cast from the higher dimension.



Other than that. the final act got many interesting things to work with.
Click to expand...

Interesting! Thanks for answering.

Also yes, the final act has a lot of interesting feats and lore! Like universal bombs, a recreation of the Root but not actually, Qin affecting the Throne of Heroes directly… wow Nasu pulled all the stops here!
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
Interesting! Thanks for answering.

Also yes, the final act has a lot of interesting feats and lore! Like universal bombs, a recreation of the Root but not actually, Qin affecting the Throne of Heroes directly… wow Nasu pulled all the stops here!
Click to expand...
We also have clear and final evidence that possibilities in the Nasuverse operate on a universal scale but are constrained between Textures. There’s even a built-in backup for this: whatever happened in the FGO timeline like the universe erasure didn’t affect the Servant universe at all, which is itself another possibility for humanity history.

Despite all the new materials on the powerscaling side, I’m not sure I was satisfied with the ending itself. It felt short, and Olga literally dying from overweight has to be a troll. Nasu made her a victim from start to finish, and Maris felt more like a plot device to wrap everything up. The ending wasn’t terrible, but I expected something grander given all the teasing and hype Nasu built up.

The temple of time had more impact on me than this finale, which came across like a reskinned Fate stay night + temple of time battle. I barely felt better than when I realized old Moriarty knew about Holmes’s true identity before anyone else.
 
Elesia011 said:
Kannou mentioned that Musashi was holding the title of Grand solely for the purpose of the "Grand Duel." That phrasing feels very specific.
But thinking about it a second time, maybe it simply means Musashi was holding the Grand title, and her disappearance against Chaos left the position vacant.

Also, her Grand Battle version seems to have some interesting lines like this one

「五輪体現！ 顕密陰陽、天元一気！ 冠位の頂いただき、知るがいい！」

I’m not sure if they should be taken at face value, though.
Click to expand...
We know she wasn’t a grand in lb5.
 
Elesia011 said:
We also have clear and final evidence that possibilities in the Nasuverse operate on a universal scale but are constrained between Textures. There’s even a built-in backup for this: whatever happened in the FGO timeline like the universe erasure didn’t affect the Servant universe at all, which is itself another possibility for humanity history.

Despite all the new materials on the powerscaling side, I’m not sure I was satisfied with the ending itself. It felt short, and Olga literally dying from overweight has to be a troll. Nasu made her a victim from start to finish, and Maris felt more like a plot device to wrap everything up. The ending wasn’t terrible, but I expected something grander given all the teasing and hype Nasu built up.

The temple of time had more impact on me than this finale, which came across like a reskinned Fate stay night + temple of time battle. I barely felt better than when I realized old Moriarty knew about Holmes’s true identity before anyone else.
Click to expand...
the ending of Olga is a common thing of nasu. He did practically the same stupid thing in Arcueid true ending
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
I was wondering… if INS will be 1-A or Low 1-A, would the Throne of Heroes be higher? The argument of INS being “adimensional”. Also the one Tsukihime R statement where Kiara, despite transcending to higher dimensions, can never fully escape the universe no matter how many times she ascends.

The Part 2 Finale was pretty crazy so a lot of these stuff would probably benefit the eventual cosmology thread and Magic system thread.
Click to expand...
TOH has high scaling args considering that it's a "HIGHER dimensional" than everything else so more than likely its above INS
 
Elesia011 said:
We also have clear and final evidence that possibilities in the Nasuverse operate on a universal scale but are constrained between Textures. There’s even a built-in backup for this: whatever happened in the FGO timeline like the universe erasure didn’t affect the Servant universe at all, which is itself another possibility for humanity history.
Click to expand...
As far as i know servant universe should be part of the TRUE universe, the shit maris affected should be the observable universe, not the entire thing
 
Elesia011 said:
Olga literally dying from overweight has to be a troll
Click to expand...
agw9v1.jpg
 
Cainlaneve said:
As far as i know servant universe should be part of the TRUE universe, the shit maris affected should be the observable universe, not the entire thing
Click to expand...
Fair point, but I don’t think the Servant Universe is part of the true universe, for one simple and good reason: its residents were originally humans. Five thousand years before the FGO timeline, they underwent a universe update that transformed them into Servants. This means natively they are humans who evolved into servants and there no need to even explain what's a servant and their function in the first place.

1. The fact that they were human means this is a story about humanity in other words, another possibility of Earth. "Human" refers specifically to the primate species of Earth alone; there aren’t two such species in the universe. Therefore, the Servant Universe cannot be part of the true universe. Instead, it is a parallel universe born from human history.
2. Servant Universe entities like Space Ishtar do not refer to the FGO timeline as their universe in the first place.
3. What even made you think the Servant Universe is part of the true universe? I mean even servants from the servant verse are registered in the throne which is an authority of the planet Earth.
 
Elesia011 said:
Fair point, but I don’t think the Servant Universe is part of the true universe, for one simple and good reason: its residents were originally humans. Five thousand years before the FGO timeline, they underwent a universe update that transformed them into Servants. This means natively they are humans who evolved into servants and there no need to even explain what's a servant and their function in the first place.

1. The fact that they were human means this is a story about humanity in other words, another possibility of Earth. "Human" refers specifically to the primate species of Earth alone; there aren’t two such species in the universe. Therefore, the Servant Universe cannot be part of the true universe. Instead, it is a parallel universe born from human history.
2. Servant Universe entities like Space Ishtar do not refer to the FGO timeline as their universe in the first place.
3. What even made you think the Servant Universe is part of the true universe? I mean even servants from the servant verse are registered in the throne which is an authority of the planet Earth.
Click to expand...
First thing is the fact that it's outside the planet (Which might be a wierd point) but also the fact that they were ALLOWED to become servants to begin with. That level of change allowed to a possibility to the scale that all humans essentially cease to become humans and death becoming a joke seems wierd

Outside of that i have no proper grounds to stand on this matter so yea (Also it's a bit wierd for me that a whole ass galaxy of servants could still be part of the possibility of human history especially after they ceased to be human
 
Cainlaneve said:
First thing is the fact that it's outside the planet (Which might be a wierd point) but also the fact that they were ALLOWED to become servants to begin with. That level of change allowed to a possibility to the scale that all humans essentially cease to become humans and death becoming a joke seems wierd

Outside of that i have no proper grounds to stand on this matter so yea (Also it's a bit wierd for me that a whole ass galaxy of servants could still be part of the possibility of human history especially after they ceased to be human
Click to expand...
I’m not sure where the misconception that a Texture is limited to Earth’s surface came from. Holmes already explained that a Texture isn’t just something physically placed on the planet’s surface. Instead, the Texture itself is the result of physical laws as humans understand them and their perception of the world.

Therefore, claiming that a Texture is anything smaller than at least the observable universe(space which we are confident it abides by the laws of physics as mankind knows it) is an assertion not really backed by the lore especially when a Texture confiscated by Arcueid contained 13.8 billion light-years worth of information and was implied to be infinite and even Maris Texture confiscation had at least and it was stated to have stored every observable galaxy observable from Earth. And if I recall correctly, even those who argued that possibilities weren’t universal in scale accepted that they should at least be solar system-sized.

All this is to say that, in both interpretations, the Texture of Earth extends far beyond Earth itself.

The part where it’s described as stitched on Earth’s surface shouldn’t be taken literally as it isn't a physical phenomenon and neither was it presented as a limitation in size.
 
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Elesia011 said:
The part where it’s described as stitched on Earth’s surface shouldn’t be taken literally as it isn't a physical phenomenon and neither was it presented as a limitation in size.
Click to expand...
Oh, thnx for conforming, i thought that was the case the entire time. Thnx for clearing it up lol 👍
 
Elesia011 said:
I’m not sure where the misconception that a Texture is limited to Earth’s surface came from. Holmes already explained that a Texture isn’t just something physically placed on the planet’s surface. Instead, the Texture itself is the result of physical laws as humans understand them and their perception of the world.

Therefore, claiming that a Texture is anything smaller than at least the observable universe(space which we are confident it abides by the laws of physics as mankind knows it) is an assertion not really backed by the lore especially when a Texture confiscated by Arcueid contained 13.8 billion light-years worth of information and was implied to be infinite and even Maris Texture confiscation had at least and it was stated to have stored every observable galaxy observable from Earth. And if I recall correctly, even those who argued that possibilities weren’t universal in scale accepted that they should at least be solar system-sized.

All this is to say that, in both interpretations, the Texture of Earth extends far beyond Earth itself.

The part where it’s described as stitched on Earth’s surface shouldn’t be taken literally as it isn't a physical phenomenon and neither was it presented as a limitation in size.
Click to expand...

Its so wacky how Nasuverse Earth is actually universal in size. Or maybe bigger, since Tsuki R has some fun statements regarding the universe’s size!

This is like One Piece’s planet being massive, but Nasuverse takes it way further.
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
Its so wacky how Nasuverse Earth is actually universal in size. Or maybe bigger, since Tsuki R has some fun statements regarding the universe’s size!

This is like One Piece’s planet being massive, but Nasuverse takes it way further.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the Nasuverse's conception of space and how it handles it really defies standard physics. Just our fight with Maris inside the Hollow Earth pushed us to a distance of 13.8 billion light-years from the hole they made to enter the hollow Earth, according to Da Vinci’s speculation, since Maris wanted to position herself at the center of the universe.

Don’t ask me how it works, but in the Nasuverse, Earth can essentially have as much internal space as it needs. Chaldeas uses a similar principle, if I recall correctly, to expand the space inside the Shadow Border so that people can have entire rooms despite the Border looking smaller from outside.
 
What even is wrong with people?

They are told the verse is outdated and in need of major cosmological revisions and all the tags are put on, and yet they keep hounding on the old ratings and how wrong they are, having read nothing of the sort. Why are people like this.
 
Elesia011 said:
I’m not sure where the misconception that a Texture is limited to Earth’s surface came from. Holmes already explained that a Texture isn’t just something physically placed on the planet’s surface. Instead, the Texture itself is the result of physical laws as humans understand them and their perception of the world.

Therefore, claiming that a Texture is anything smaller than at least the observable universe(space which we are confident it abides by the laws of physics as mankind knows it) is an assertion not really backed by the lore especially when a Texture confiscated by Arcueid contained 13.8 billion light-years worth of information and was implied to be infinite and even Maris Texture confiscation had at least and it was stated to have stored every observable galaxy observable from Earth. And if I recall correctly, even those who argued that possibilities weren’t universal in scale accepted that they should at least be solar system-sized.

All this is to say that, in both interpretations, the Texture of Earth extends far beyond Earth itself.

The part where it’s described as stitched on Earth’s surface shouldn’t be taken literally as it isn't a physical phenomenon and neither was it presented as a limitation in size.
Click to expand...

Texture don’t contain other life form than the one present on earth or have happen to earth ( like how type mars doesn’t exist in the texture of man in the planet mars but type ORT can exist because he is already on earth. And how the Greek god come to earth even in different timeline etc) so it wouldn’t be able to contain space Ishtar life form (she never come to earth technically in servant verse before universe update) + servantverse have their own type so it’s a weird case.

Texture can be universe in size tho. And they have their own timeline too since Arcade timeline is a timeline of fgo. But fgo is a timeline of the world (in the sense that since it’s a lostbelt timeline but it’s have his own different timeline)
 
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Regidian said:
Texture don’t contain other life form than the one present on earth or have happen to earth ( like how type mars doesn’t exist in the texture of man in the planet mars but type ORT can exist because he is already on earth. And how the Greek god come to earth even in different timeline etc) so it wouldn’t be able to contain space Ishtar life form (she never come to earth technically in servant verse before universe update) + servantverse have their own type so it’s a weird case.

Texture can be universe in size tho. And they have their own timeline too since Arcade timeline is a timeline of fgo. But fgo is a timeline of the world (in the sense that since it’s a lostbelt timeline but it’s have his own different timeline)
Click to expand...
That makes sense, especially if other celestial bodies function like Earth. In other words, what we perceive from Earth are celestial bodies according to how Earth wants mankind to perceive them. This makes the last chapter all the more confusing.

Da Vinci stated that the injured party in the universe update wasn't Earth, but rather the universe itself, a process that nullified lifeforms on every other celestial body. This implies that there are other lifeforms distinct from humans. Furthermore, Daybit implied in Lostbelt 7 that humans are a threat to the universe due to their undying will to survive.

If everything had gone according to Marisbury's plan, the FGO timeline would have effectively erased all universal lifeforms and celestial bodies except those of Earth.

While the existence of other Ultimate Ones in the FGO timeline can't be confirmed, the idea that celestial bodies host different life forms has already been established with them labelled as external factors unnecessary to mankind.
 
KLOL506 said:
What even is wrong with people?

They are told the verse is outdated and in need of major cosmological revisions and all the tags are put on, and yet they keep hounding on the old ratings and how wrong they are, having read nothing of the sort. Why are people like this.
Click to expand...
What are you referring to? o.0
 
Elesia011 said:
That makes sense, especially if other celestial bodies function like Earth. In other words, what we perceive from Earth are celestial bodies according to how Earth wants mankind to perceive them. This makes the last chapter all the more confusing.

Da Vinci stated that the injured party in the universe update wasn't Earth, but rather the universe itself, a process that nullified lifeforms on every other celestial body. This implies that there are other lifeforms distinct from humans. Furthermore, Daybit implied in Lostbelt 7 that humans are a threat to the universe due to their undying will to survive.

If everything had gone according to Marisbury's plan, the FGO timeline would have effectively erased all universal lifeforms and celestial bodies except those of Earth.

While the existence of other Ultimate Ones in the FGO timeline can't be confirmed, the idea that celestial bodies host different life forms has already been established with them labelled as external factors unnecessary to mankind.
Click to expand...
Wasn't this a thing all the way in like, the servantverse??
 
Kisaragi_Megumi said:
What are you referring to? o.0
Click to expand...
I've seen several people in this thread alone talking about downgrading from Tier 1 because they're nonsensical or something despite the proposed cosmological overhauls to replace the old justifications being in the works and the "outdated" tag being a thing.
 
We don’t know since it depend on scalling, since the event of king Eliza we know that type exist in servantverse and they are kinda fodder. So someone like MHXX could be the strongest

and I’m pretty sure that Kulkukan is stronger than U-Olga already no?
 
vsbattles.fandom.com

EMIYA (Honkai: Star Rail)

Archer is a playable character in Honkai: Star Rail. Archer is the Archer-class Servant of Aventurine summoned during the Penacony Holy Grail War. His real name is EMIYA and he is dedicated to protecting his planet as a Heroic Spirit and Counter Guardian. Tier: Low 1-C, higher with Unlimited...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com

Altria Pendragon (Honkai: Star Rail)

Saber (セイバー Seibā?) is a playable character in Honkai: Star Rail. Saber is the Saber-class Servant of the Trailblazer summoned during the Penacony Holy Grail War. Her real name is Altria Pendragon, also known as King Arthur. She is the King of Knights who once ruled the kingdom of Britain. Tier...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

New upgrade if anyone cares
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

EMIYA (Honkai: Star Rail)

Archer is a playable character in Honkai: Star Rail. Archer is the Archer-class Servant of Aventurine summoned during the Penacony Holy Grail War. His real name is EMIYA and he is dedicated to protecting his planet as a Heroic Spirit and Counter Guardian. Tier: Low 1-C, higher with Unlimited...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com

Altria Pendragon (Honkai: Star Rail)

Saber (セイバー Seibā?) is a playable character in Honkai: Star Rail. Saber is the Saber-class Servant of the Trailblazer summoned during the Penacony Holy Grail War. Her real name is Altria Pendragon, also known as King Arthur. She is the King of Knights who once ruled the kingdom of Britain. Tier...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

New upgrade if anyone cares
Click to expand...
Oh that’s neat

Speaking of Honkai, I heard Irontomb vs ORT is a matchup, how thematic is that?
 
Quick question for the guys who read the el melloi novels, is shirou there as strong physically as his HF self or is he stronger?
and would you say that is the strongest we saw him so far compared to his other human versions?
 
Black-san112 said:
Quick question for the guys who read the el melloi novels, is shirou there as strong physically as his HF self or is he stronger?
and would you say that is the strongest we saw him so far compared to his other human versions?
Click to expand...
I would say that the strongest version of shirou is still EMIYA by technicality (If we don't count servants then Miyuverse shirou with archer class card DEFINETLY is good for the strongest) and i don't count muramasa but if you do then you can say muramasa is the strongest shirou
 
Cainlaneve said:
I would say that the strongest version of shirou is still EMIYA by technicality (If we don't count servants then Miyuverse shirou with archer class card DEFINETLY is good for the strongest) and i don't count muramasa but if you do then you can say muramasa is the strongest shirou
Click to expand...
I meant without including the servant variants, so only when he was a human
 
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