Nasuverse Avalon is in the center of the earth????

[Hizack123]

At the titles said

Can i have scan and statement please?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

It is the final paradise, filled with flowers of every imaginable color. In the day, it’s filled with the spring sunlight and the scent of summer, and at night, you feel the fall air and look up at the winter stars. The earth is filled with flowers and insects. The forests with water and green and beasts. Beautiful fairies dance near the waterside. In the myths, this tiny little world is called the Land of Eternal Spring, or the Island of the Apple. It is a utopia, far beyond the reach of animals who possess wisdom. Its name is Avalon. The inner sea of the planet. It is another name for the place where the Earth’s soul is kept. -Fate/Grand Order, "The Tower of Avalon" (Merlin's Bond CE)

 

[Hizack123]

Thank you

You can close this now

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Not to mention if we talking about Ea vs Avalon, in the Visual Novel.

We do have this statement.
“

•Avalon: The Everdistant Utopia
The matching “scabbard” of the holy sword Excalibur. The wielder does not age, and injuries will also quickly heal.
After invoking its true name, Avalon dissipates as tiny particles into the air, and shields the wielder from all interference. No damage can be done to the wielder when a state of absolute defence is initiated. Even interference from the parallel world based on the Second Magic will be blocked. An “absolute defence” that can even repel the assault of True Magic, it is a True Magic in itself. No one can harm the tranquil King that stands in the land of Avalon.
When Avalon was unleashed, not even the King of Heroes could harm Saber.”

As this is backed up by the feat of Avalon blocking Ea at what seems to being at full power.


There is no reason for Gil to explicitly hold back against Saber when she deployed Excalibur against Ea, then Shirou copied and activated Avalon.

I have already posted this earlier, but I have issue with certain claims being made regarding Ea.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Its name is Avalon. The inner sea of the planet.
It is another name for the place where the Earth’s soul is kept.

Not sure if this means literally the center of the Earth though as I have go through the reference materials again

 

[Hizack123]

Well if you can than more scan for me

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Well if you than more scan for me

Well technically, statement and/or scans.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Not to mention if we talking about Ea vs Avalon, in the Visual Novel.

We do have this statement.
“

•Avalon: The Everdistant Utopia
The matching “scabbard” of the holy sword Excalibur. The wielder does not age, and injuries will also quickly heal.
After invoking its true name, Avalon dissipates as tiny particles into the air, and shields the wielder from all interference. No damage can be done to the wielder when a state of absolute defence is initiated. Even interference from the parallel world based on the Second Magic will be blocked. An “absolute defence” that can even repel the assault of True Magic, it is a True Magic in itself. No one can harm the tranquil King that stands in the land of Avalon.
When Avalon was unleashed, not even the King of Heroes could harm Saber.”

As this is backed up by the feat of Avalon blocking Ea at what seems to being at full power.


There is no reason for Gil to explicitly hold back against Saber when she deployed Excalibur against Ea, then Shirou copied and activated Avalon.

I have already posted this earlier, but I have issue with certain claims being made regarding Ea.

Shit got retconned, simple as that. The feat where Enuma Elish is cited as being capable of wrecking the entire world came in a Light Novel almost 12 years after F/SN's original inception and that's just Servant Gil and not the C.C.C or Extella versions.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Shit got retconned, simple as that the feat where Enuma Elish is cited as being capable of wrecking the entire world came in a Light Novel almost 12 years after F/SN's original inception and that's just Servant Gil and not the C.C.C or Extella versions

I not sure if it is retconned as destroying the world 11 times over and so doesn’t disprove the fact we have multiple statements of Avalon the defensive NP. Also IIRC, statements for the defensive NP is later on too.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also it is not like TM is gonna retcon everything as that is a case by case basic on what does count as retcon (need official confirmation of it as well technically) as WOG statements and statements from visual guides and other supplemental materials still count.

Edit: The statements in question. https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Avalon

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Also it is not like TM is gonna retcon everything as that is a case by case basic on what does count as retcon (need official confirmation of it as well technically) as WOG statements and statements from visual guides and other supplemental materials still count.

Edit: The statements in question. https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Avalon

Well it's not like it's the first time, Gilgamesh isn't meant to have any Divine Constructs either but Vajira, Ig-Alima and Sul-Sagana all exist

And were talking a full blown statment, citing that Enuma elish would've wrecked the world had Enkidu not stepped it

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Well it's not like it's the first time, Gilgamesh isn't meant to have any Divine Constructs either but Vajira, Ig-Alima and Sul-Sagana all exist

And were talking a full blown statment, citing that Enuma elish would've wrecked the world had Enkidu not stepped it

In this case, it is technically from the fact he was from Babylonia and hence it will make sense of him owning some divine constructs during the time he was alive I think.

After all, not too much was known about his life aside from being a collector and treasure horder.

Even, the statements for Gil mentioned him being a collector of treasure while he was alive IIFC.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also I don’t think we can magically put retcon on old TM lore ngl as not everything from past lore is retconned to oblivion as I will admit that is a practice and is a bad idea tbh

 

[FallenMaou2234]

In this case, it is technically from the fact he was from Babylonia and hence it will make sense of him owning some divine constructs during the time he was alive I think.

After all, not too much was known about his life aside from being a collector and treasure horder.

Even, the statements for Gil mentioned him being a collector of treasure while he was alive IIFC.

It's still a retcon tho, a lot of stuff in FSN regarding Gil especially was tailored to make it so the plot went the way it needed too, looking at later works stuff like Gil being weak in Hand-to-Hand combat and whatnot is seriously retconned we see him fighting Enkidu who can go toe to toe with Quetz at full throttle and she can fight some of the most skilled in the entire Nasuverse, we see him fight the likes of Karna and Altera as well in Extella

So, yeah dawg Avalon being able to block a Full Power Enuma Elish probably just ended up being one of those things shit happens

 

[Hasty12345]

Also I don’t think we can magically put retcon on old TM lore ngl as not everything from past lore is retconned to oblivion as I will admit that is a practice and is a bad idea tbh

Disregarding older material in favour of newer stuff is the norm with this verse, given how expansive it is

 

[FallenMaou2234]

I mean they even retconned the fact that Shirou isn't "all that" in Hand-to-hand in the very same VN when they state that when a sword is copied into UBW has it's history copied along with it making Shirou instantly as Skilled as the original weilder the moment he picks a weapon up

 

[HammerStrikes219]

It's still a retcon tho, a lot of stuff in FSN regarding Gil especially was tailored to make it so the plot went the way it needed too, looking at later works stuff like Gil being weak in Hand-to-Hand combat and whatnot is seriously retconned we see him fighting Enkidu who can go toe to toe with Quetz at full throttle and she can fight some of the most skilled in the entire Nasuverse, we see him fight the likes of Karna and Altera as well in Extella

So, yeah dawg Avalon being able to block a Full Power Enuma Elish probably just ended up being one of those things shit happens

We don’t even know the full details of the fight, but Enkidu vs Gil wasn’t shown on screen, but rather off screen while they were alive plus it was mentioned when he was using his own treasury against Enkidu IIRC so this is not a valid example.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

We don’t even know the full details of the fight, but Enkidu vs Gil wasn’t shown on screen, but rather off screen while they were alive plus it was mentioned when he was using his own treasury against Enkidu IIRC so this is not a valid example.

Episode 11 of the Babylonia anime

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I mean they even retconned the fact that Shirou isn't "all that" in Hand-to-hand in the very same VN when they state that when a sword is copied into UBW has it's history copied along with it making Shirou instantly as Skilled as the original weilder the moment he picks a weapon up

What? Shirou in the VN need training from Saber and some other things. I am afraid this time I can not completely ignore this as well

 

[FallenMaou2234]

What? Shirou in the VN need training from Saber and some other things. I am afraid this time I can not completely ignore this as well

Don't ask me ask Nasu, he wrote that shit

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Episode 3 of the Babylonia anime

Gil Caster vs Fake Enkidu. They didn’t go to hand to hand combat.
Also I gonna go by FGO mobile and the Babylonia anime is only technically adaption material of FGO to begin with.

Edit: Wait, I don’t remember Enkidu going toe to toe with Quetz and Quetz is a skilled fighter.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Disregarding older material in favour of newer stuff is the norm with this verse, given how expansive it is

While this will been true, this should been more like a case by case thing rather than assuming it applies to everything ngl.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Gil Caster vs Fake Enkidu. They didn’t go to hand to hand combat.
Also I gonna go by FGO mobile and the Babylonia anime is only technically adaption material of FGO to begin with.

Edit: Wait, I don’t remember Enkidu going toe to toe with Quetz and Quetz is a skilled fighter.

All of them are Canon to each other unless were talking Extra so...and Enkidu(Kingu) vs Quetz happened in Babylonia as well.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

While this will been true, this should been more like a case by case thing rather than assuming it applies to everything ngl.

It's not like were saying everything got retconned it's simply that in this particular instance it did

 

[HammerStrikes219]

All of them are Canon to each other unless were talking Extra so...and Enkidu(Kingu) vs Quetz happened in Babylonia as well.

We weren’t shown the full fight and Kingu was using his chains in that specific instance. Also being canon to one another does create problems of its own so it will involve being retroactively applied.

It's not like were saying everything got retconned it's simple that in this particular instance it did

??? That I have to disagree with it since we talking about the Noble Phantasm of Avalon, not Avalon that was mentioned to being the land of Fae and some other things.

Remember, we talking of two things.
1. The Noble Phantasm
2. The land of the Faes.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

We weren’t shown the full fight and Kingu was using his chains in that specific instance. Also being canon to one another does create problems of its own so it will involve being retroactively applied.

Well ask Nasu why he decided to make it a Multiverse not me, plus they go Hand-to-hand twice right at the Beginning and right as the scene changes in that fight, same thing with Caster Gil and Enkidu(Kingu) there's two Hand-to-hand combat exchanges before the scene changes and in episode 11 Gil and Enkidu went Hand-to-hand as well

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Well ask Nasu why he decided to make it a Multiverse not me, plus they go Hand-to-hand twice right at the Beginning and right as the scene changes in that fight, same thing with Caster Gil and Enkidu(Kingu) there's two Hand-to-hand combat exchanges before the scene changes and in episode 11 Gil and Enkidu went Hand-to-hand as well

It is technically with weapons though which isn’t strictly hand to hand combat though.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

??? That I have to disagree with it since we talking about the Noble Phantasm of Avalon, not Avalon that was mentioned to being the land of Fae and some other things.

Remember, we talking of two things.
1. The Noble Phantasm
2. The land of the Faes.

Avalon the NP=Avalon the actual realm so I don't know it was simply outright stated he'd wreck the world if Enkidu didn't step in so

 

[FallenMaou2234]

It is technically with weapons though which isn’t strictly hand to hand combat though.

Ah it seems like you misinterpreted let me amend the statment they went Close Quarters Combat

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Avalon the NP=Avalon the actual realm so I don't know it was simply outright stated he'd wreck the world if Enkidu didn't step in so

I have to discuss with Crimson and some other ppl more knowledgeable in TM lore ngl.
Also it wasn’t necessarily implied Avalon the realm will been destroyed necessarily, I think even though it also doesn’t have the 6 dimensional statement as it is from the Noble Phantasm.

Ah it seems like you misinterpreted let me amend the statment they went Close Quarters Combat

You did mention hand to hand combat so…

 

[FallenMaou2234]

I have to discuss with Crimson and some other ppl more knowledgeable in TM lore ngl.
Also it wasn’t necessarily implied Avalon the realm will been destroyed necessarily, I think even though it also doesn’t have the 6 dimensional statement as it is from the Noble Phantasm.

"The entire world" meaning all it's Textures including Avalon that exists in the core of the planet, and Avalon the NP is explicitly stated to work by placing Artoria in avalon (the location) thus shutting all external influence out so it doesn't make sense to assume that the actual location isn't 6-D when the fact that it's 6-D is the entire reason the NP works the way it does

 

[HammerStrikes219]

"The entire world" meaning all it's Textures including Avalon that exists in the core of the planet, and Avalon the NP is explicitly stated to work by placing Artoria in avalon (the location) thus shutting all external influence out so it doesn't make sense to assume that the actual location isn't 6-D when the fact that it's 6-D is the entire reason the NP works the way it does

Not necessarily the core of the planet though as 1.https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Texture#cite_note-Camelot14-1

“
Holmes:
A satisfactory example, Miss Kyrielight.
The Tower stands at the end of the world, and its administrator wields the lance.
The question is, why does the Tower pierce the planet?
There is a theory that our world — the human world — is nothing more than one of the textured layers that wrap the surface of the planet, like a carpet.
To the planet, this is the consciousness of the intelligent lifeforms that reign supreme. In other words, our physical laws.
The “carpet” that maintains the laws of physics is our world. It is stitched to the planet so that it does not peel away.
This seems to be the phenomenon called the Tower of the End. It is also not limited to Britain.
There are multiple such pillars located throughout the world. One is the holy lance in the hands of the Lion King.”

I honestly not sure if it is truly the case

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Not necessarily the core of the planet though as 1.https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Texture#cite_note-Camelot14-1

“
Holmes:
A satisfactory example, Miss Kyrielight.
The Tower stands at the end of the world, and its administrator wields the lance.
The question is, why does the Tower pierce the planet?
There is a theory that our world — the human world — is nothing more than one of the textured layers that wrap the surface of the planet, like a carpet.
To the planet, this is the consciousness of the intelligent lifeforms that reign supreme. In other words, our physical laws.
The “carpet” that maintains the laws of physics is our world. It is stitched to the planet so that it does not peel away.
This seems to be the phenomenon called the Tower of the End. It is also not limited to Britain.
There are multiple such pillars located throughout the world. One is the holy lance in the hands of the Lion King.”

I honestly not sure if it is truly the case

I'm not sure what this scan is meant to prove?? But Ea is classified as an "Anti-World" NP specifically because it is able to Destroy things like Textures and would've destroyed the entire Planet had Enkidu not cancelled his Enuma Elish out so I don't know what else to tell you

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I'm not sure what this scan is meant to prove?? But Ea is classified as an "Anti-World" NP specifically because it is able to Destroy things like Textures and would've destroyed the entire Planet had Enkidu not cancelled his Enuma Elish out so I don't know what else to tell you

It is because Avalon is mentioned to being the inner sea of Earth in the translation for it.
If Avalon is considered as a layer of the planet, that is something else.

Either way, I am tired and will refrain from commenting further on the matter.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

It is because Avalon is mentioned to being the inner sea of Earth in the translation for it.
If Avalon is considered as a layer of the planet, that is something else.

Either way, I am tired and will refrain from commenting further on the matter.

The Reverse Side=The Inner Sea, the Inner sea of the planet is another way of referring to the Reverse Side and the Reverse is also a texture it's just bigger than the one that convers the surface.

Edit: Layer=Texture by the way

 

[HammerStrikes219]

The Reverse Side=The Inner Sea, the Inner sea of the planet is another way of referring to the Reverse Side and the Reverse is also a texture it's just bigger than the one that convers the surface.

Edit: Layer=Texture by the way

That is assuming interpretation of the information is valid anyway.

Also the OP question is technically answered too.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Human world and inner sea (reverse side, avalon, imaginary space) are layers that cover the true form of the planet, which is located at the deepest part. Destroying the entire world means destroying all the textures and layers that cover the earth, and the earth itself.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Human world and inner sea (reverse side, avalon, imaginary space) are layers that cover the true form of the planet, which is located at the deepest part. Destroying the entire world means destroying all the textures and layers that cover the earth, and the earth itself.

We only got the “Destroying the world” though from Fate Strange Fake apparently, but I have to look into it again.

Anyway, technically the OP’s question was answered.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

We only got the “Destroying the world” though from Fate Strange Fake apparently, but I have to look into it again.

Well, the world isn't just about textures tho. Basically the concept of EA is to make the "earth" return to its primordial form. Moreover, we have seen that Anti-World NP was able to easily penetrate to the Reverse Side which is Inner Sea.

Yeah, OP's question has been answered, we can stop here to avoid derailing.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

The Reverse Side=The Inner Sea, the Inner sea of the planet is another way of referring to the Reverse Side and the Reverse is also a texture it's just bigger than the one that convers the surface.

Edit: Layer=Texture by the way

“Sword of Promised Victory
Rank: A++ Type: Anti-Fortress
Excalibur.
Not a man-made weapon, but a Divine Construct forged by the planet. A Noble Phantasm that stands at the top of all holy swords.
It is not the sword, but its scabbard that truly possesses an outstanding ability. However, that scabbard has been forever lost.”

I also have checked the localization and it say the same thing as it is referring to her defensive Noble Phantasm, Avalon.