Nasuverse 6-B Downgrades

[Rocker1189]

just use CTRL+F and search this.

"Roman reports that the magical energy value is over three million, and compares it to the firepower of top class Noble Phantasms which only range from one to three thousand"

If you read the rest of this thread you would realise I have already found it and literally posted that myself.

 

[Rocker1189]

Bump

 

[LordGinSama]

So this would be island level correct?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Welp,best is waiting for Repp to come back,or waiting for Ram give more input here to reach an conclusion.

 

[Rocker1189]

So this would be island level correct?

Yeah.

 

[John985]

Try contacting both KamiYasha and Promestein.

 

[Aizenishere]

How many restraints were released when Ozy overpowered the lance?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Ozy never overpowered the Lance, what's being said is that Roman put Rhon at a level around 3000x times above top tier Noble Phantasms, among which is the likes of Brahmastra(That by Ram's comment, one shots characters that take 6-C attacks handily).

Stella matched such an attack, and this same Stella triple Boosted by 3 command seals, and anyone well versed in Fate should be aware of the silly stuff that can be done when both Master and Servant agree with the order, and this same order is hyper focused to just one task, alongside a Excalibur Proto with a lot of it's restraints released had to be used to overpower Ozymandias' Dendera Light, while he was Mana starved because his Master had been killed. Not to mention the comparation to a Solar Flare.

So by feats, questionable wording of vaporizing Tokyo and etc etc aside, it's Tier is very well justified and he's just being ignorant and consciously so since Rep has repeated this a number of times.

 

[Aizenishere]

Ahhh mb m8. My confusion was I mistook Excalibur Porto for the lance. When it came to what backed up Stella. Ty for clearing that up

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

My bad as well, and no problem.

 

[Rocker1189]

Look as everyone knows this wiki runs by feast first statements second. No matter how you look at it this calculation is wrong if you actually look at it objectively. If you have any other feast of actual country busting then by all means state it because as far as I can tell it did not happen and the tiers are unjustified I have provided calcs above and you guys have provided nothing dont tell me I am being ignorant when I have proved my points.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Your argument is initially based merely on an statement, an statement unrelated to the Dendera Light being compared to a Solar Flare, not even tangentially related to Rhon being estimated at 3000x something on the level of Brahmastra Kundala and Stella being able to cancel it out, then that same Stella needing to be Triple Command Seal boosted and being fired in tandem with Excalibur Proto to defeat the Dendara Light. Oh yeah, Rider's master was already dead so he had no anchor and was running mana deprived to boot! What are your actual arguments against all this beyond merely disagreeing because you don't think the results are justified? Literally you disbelieve the use of the higher end for Rhon for... no factual reason.

Yet this is in your face and you keep going, because you don't want to agree and not because your points aren't being addressed. That's stubborness and ignorance in a package.

 

[LordGinSama]

I'd Rhon is 3000x any NP I suppose it makes sense for it to be country level. Besides from that I agree with throwing anyway the Ozy calc since it assumes vaporization which is false and vague.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Not any NP, but Top Class NPs. And if Rammessess comment is right, Brahmastha Kundala one shots someone who can tank a 6-C attack, so...

 

[LordGinSama]

One shotting a 6-C character wouldn't make you 6-B, if you were on the higher end of 6-C you could do that. That being said how far into 6-C is said NP? I'll assume baseline for now given that there's no calc actually putting them there from what I can tell. with that being said I'll do some quick math.


4.3 Gigatons x 3000 is 12900 Gigatons. Putting covering that into Teratons would give us 12.9 Teratons, lower end of country level if I have the math right.


I'll also include a end using High 7-A just in case if there's no real reason for them to be 6-C. 1 Gigaton is baseline High 7-A which is what they are. Multiplying that by 3000 would give us 3000 Gigatons, or 3 Teratons. Which is small country level.


So yeah it's either 6-B or low 6-B. This seems pretty consistent given the context of the statement, so I don't think the outlier argument would work here. However it's still a downgrade but not much of a downgrade. It'll be on the lower end of Country level to mid end of small country level.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

The person in question is Jeanne being able to easily tank Spartacus Suicide attack, while it's already acknowledged Karna would have utterly destroyed her even if she used that same defense against his Brahmastra Kundala.

 

[LordGinSama]

That doesn't tell me much.


Going from his profile this is all it states.

Island level with self-destruction (Annihilated half of the Fortress of Millennia and covered an entire battlefield. The attack was compared to a calamity like an earthquake and tsunami).


It's vague without a real calc so I'll assume baseline to be safe and to avoid any inflated calcs. And that would be 12 Teratons, still country.

 

[Rocker1189]

Looks like people are misunderstanding me horribly so I would say this again.

1. I literally only made this because the Tokyo calc is clearly wrong, anyone looking at it objectively would say so, no only does it use the wrong trnaslations it also misinterpreted said translation. You would notice I rarely engage with the Nasuverse, so I really dont mind if they have an actual 6-B feat. Splitting a country in half is not 6-B depending on circumstances.

2. I said if we have an actual calc for 6-C then we can go for calcing that with 3000x as the top value but my issue with that is that the dudesaid it was between 1000x and 3000x stronger than the strongest NP. I interpreted suggested using 2000x as the difference because it is the mid value which is the usual thing you would take without any clear indication because it does not downplaying and does not wank either but if you really want to use the 3000x value then whatever I really dont mind but ofcourse you would need an actual 6-C value to calc off of.

3. I was not even going to argue about this in the first place and only wanted to this wrong calc to be taken off. Then someone tells me spillting a country in half with no other info is somehow country level I would leave to that how you fill about it. But if that is all we need in this wiki to randomly upgrade people then that is an issue.

4. If this NP is actually 6-B that is fine with me but the Dendera light bulb certainly is not especially for this calc. So it needs to be corrected to High 6-C. That is all. This is a Dendera light bulb calc after all not a Rhon calc.

 

[LordGinSama]

I agree with most of those points, mainly that if there's no 6-C calc then we shouldn't use it. So until we get that calculated we should use the baseline High 7-A one since we have a calc for that. Again I'll do simple math.

If we low ball it with the 1000x end of the statement we get 1000 Gigatons or 1 Teraton.


Using 2000 we'd get 2000 Gigatons or 2 Teratons


And with 3000 we'd get 3000 Gigatons or 3 Teratons.


I'd suggest using the high end of the statement since it's a little bit low balled with 1000 and 2000. Until we get solid proof of 6-C we shouldn't use it.

 

[Rocker1189]

I am in agreement with your post too.

But we def have to change this particular calc to High 6-C which might boost them to 6-B while downgrading Dendera lightbulb.

 

[LordGinSama]

Yeah definitely. The calc is just bad, it's not 6-B.

 

[LordGinSama]

Ok, so it seems that 6-C comes from this calc which has to different end. From the looks of it, it's similar to the Etherion situation we had from earlier. https://www.narutoforums.org/threads/type-moon-nasuverse-tier-list.911658/page-82#post-57328929

It'll have two methods one for 1.46 Gigatons and one with 27.631 Gigatons that I'll use.


Method 1: Using the High 7-A feat which is a little over baseline.


( Low end ) 1.46 Gigatons x 1000 = 1260 Gigatons or 1.26 Teratons Baseline low 6-B


( Mid end ) 1.46 Gigatons x 2000 = 2920 Gigatons or 2.9 Teratons. low 6-B


( High end ) 1.46 x 3000 = 4380 Gigatons or 4.4 Teratons. Very close to low 6-B+ but still low 6-B


Method 2: Using the 6-C end of the feat.


( Low end. ) 27.631 Gigatons x 1000 = 27631 Gigatons or 27.6 Teratons. Country level


( Mid end ) 27.631 Gigatons Teratons x 2000 = 55262 Gigatons or 55.3 Teratons. Country level+


( High end.) 27.631 x 3000 = 82893 Gigatons or 82.9 Teratons. Country +


With that being said I'll trust the judgment of Repp and Ram and suggest using the high end statement for both calculations similary to how we treat Pica and Etherio for example. So it'd look something like this. "At least low 6-B, at most 6-B+"


With that being said I'll wait for more input from everyone here.

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm not sure what else to add.

I already explained why I support the high-end.

 

[LordGinSama]

Given that you can Ram support the high end I think this is settled.

 

[Escanor998]

If Brahmastra Kundala is 6-c, then how it was overpowered by Sieg's Balmung?. Also Brahmastra is an A+ Anti-Country/Army Noble Phantasm, so it should be similar to Balmung in terms of firepower, making it High 7-a, not 6-c

 

[Uselessnoob245]

This is like 7 months ago this thread but okay...

 

[Escanor998]

>:V

 

[Ozy_the_God-King]

The Dendera light heat is what is capable of vaporizing Tokyo no the electric beam it emits.

Rider: "………Meri-Amen[1]."

It was a judgement sentence. As he lowered his right hand, he briefly just…… It wasn't the release of his Noble Phantasm's true name.

It had already ended the moment when they arrived at the great temple which was this great Pharaoh's image of a garden. So this was, as expected, judgement. "The Dendera Lightbulb" which showed the superior might of the gods that was equipped into the main temple――――had the same shine as when the US Navy Pacific Fleet's Aegis fleet there in the Yokosuka open seas vanished, the scorching heat that came from mid-heaven, the rage of the sun which people cannot oppose, as it was exchanged for the thunder of judgement done by rulers.

The mid-air cannon that was released by Ozymandias from the main temple, and the scorching heat of the sun that he was going to fire which was likened to the accumulated release of the Noble Phantasm here, they were also too intense. If he released it with all his might, it would probably have a sufficient quantity of heat that it could turn all the people in Tokyo into ash. Was it or was it not something which guided them into an abnormal situation called a "Reality Marble," which carried out intervention in the physical world, that force was too weird.

It mentions heat a lot so, the Dendera have heat effects that is why it is too powerful and the heat can be emitted as sun light or all the heat can be converted into lightning for long range attacks which has heat as side effects. A noble phantasm power depends on its side effects and how it affects mystery and the physical world.

 

[Escanor998]

The Dendera light heat is what is capable of vaporizing Tokyo no the electric beam it emits.
Rider: "………Meri-Amen[1]."

It was a judgement sentence. As he lowered his right hand, he briefly just…… It wasn't the release of his Noble Phantasm's true name.

It had already ended the moment when they arrived at the great temple which was this great Pharaoh's image of a garden. So this was, as expected, judgement. "The Dendera Lightbulb" which showed the superior might of the gods that was equipped into the main temple――――had the same shine as when the US Navy Pacific Fleet's Aegis fleet there in the Yokosuka open seas vanished, the scorching heat that came from mid-heaven, the rage of the sun which people cannot oppose, as it was exchanged for the thunder of judgement done by rulers.

The mid-air cannon that was released by Ozymandias from the main temple, and the scorching heat of the sun that he was going to fire which was likened to the accumulated release of the Noble Phantasm here, they were also too intense. If he released it with all his might, it would probably have a sufficient quantity of heat that it could turn all the people in Tokyo into ash. Was it or was it not something which guided them into an abnormal situation called a "Reality Marble," which carried out intervention in the physical world, that force was too weird.

It mentions heat a lot so, the Dendera have heat effects that is why it is too powerful and the heat can be emitted as sun light or all the heat can be converted into lightning for long range attacks which has heat as side effects. A noble phantasm power depends on its side effects and how it affects mystery and the physical world.

it states that it could burn tokyo, not vaporizing it

"if he released it with all his might, it would probably have a sufficient quantity of heat that it could turn all the people in Tokyo into ash"