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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

I'm replying to you. Claiming I'm illogical in my claim that the layman is getting no help on this wiki only the The sparkle treatment.
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
No Life Dweeb
Click to expand...
kd9BlRovbPOykLBMqX.webp
 
So correct me if i’m wrong, but the “Soft Caps” of the Naruto Series are as Follows:
  • FoD Sasuke
  • Weightless Lee
  • Jirobo
  • Kn0 Naruto (Part 1)
  • BoShippuden Kakashi
  • 4 Tails Naruto
  • Biju Level (1-7 & maybe 8)
  • Raikage (A4)
  • 100% Kurama
  • Incomplete Ten-Tails
  • Prime Ten-Tails (1000 yrs ago)
  • Beyond Kaguya (Ch 689 Variant)
By “Soft Caps” I mean the characters that can be used as, and generally widely accepted as,“Benchmarks” for the Verse’s Powerscaling.

Example: We know SM Hashirama is between Incomplete Ten-Tails and Prime Ten-Tails or FKS Sasuke is Between Raikage & 100% Kurama, etc etc.
 
Godernet said:
Ngl arguing Uzuhiko semantics feels pointless at this point.

Uzuhiko is not some attack that is mostly comprised of some random esoteric energy and then a little bit of planet spin.

It is Borts power + centrifugal force + other corresponding forces that involve the “planet’s chakra”

Every time Uzuhiko is described equal emphasis is put on each aspect of its mechanisms. Which an author wouldn’t do if they were implying one aspect is infinitely greater in power than the rest.

The 5B calc we currently use takes the quantifiably stated parts of Uzuhiko and turns them into a tangible value.

It’s not necessarily a low ball or a high ball

Just an interpretation that uses the tangible information we are given and nothing more.

Any interpretation that uses anything more than what we are tangibly given is bound to be more assumptive for a non-tangible value and in turn will be an inferior interpretation than just using the calc as a scaling basis.

Oh and the “limitless power” claim from Bort shouldn’t be taken literally. For one why would we auto assume that means tier 2 rather than limitless in the perspective of the user? Not to mention Japanese manga likes to use exaggerated description like Omnipotent, limitless, endless, infinite, or boundless all the time.

So yeah Tier 5 Uzuhiko > any other meta for Uzuhiko as an interpretation unless there was so much evidence for another meta that it makes T5 Uzuhiko look inconsistent by comparison.

So yeah if you wanna override the Uzuhiko soft cap you need a meta that is more consistent than Bort, the manga, and the databooks screaming in our faces “hey this is a tier 5 feat btw”

Which Nard as a series doesn’t really have outside of Goon Metas
Click to expand...

Godernet said:
When did I say you said that?

I don’t necessarily disagree but it depends to what extent.

It’s not like Yottatons are impossible now cause Uzuhiko exists

But tier 4 and above for lesser characters can be looked at with more skepticism now

Which is why I called it a soft cap

No one is really referring to hypothetical future scenarios when they say Uzuhiko “caps” the verse currently.

Just that previous scaling and characters far weaker than the current god tiers reaching levels far above the Uzuhiko calc is far less justifiable.

I mean I wasn’t really arguing anything but if you wanna try I don’t mind.
Click to expand...
I don't totally disagree with you
However Can you tell me why tier 4 and above for lesser characters like Momoshiki, Kaguya or even Toneri should be looked at with more skepticism, when on this wiki we have literary had large planet Naruto based on some calcs(Now I'm not saying that it was right, however what I'm saying is we can be wrong currently for the proper Naruto tier, it is not set in stone)

Uzuhiko should also not be a reason to justify the verse from scaling higher than planetary even people like Momoshiki Kaguya and so on. For all we know it could be confirmed that Momoshiki created his dimension(which we have some evidence to prove even now)



“Uzuhiko is not some attack that is mostly comprised of some random esoteric energy and then a little bit of planet spin.
It is Borts power + centrifugal force + other corresponding forces that involve the “planet’s chakra”

I don't necessarily disagree
What We know is that code must have tanked the planet rotation and orbit energy why?


Basically the planet energy is in code and he will continue to spin as long as the earth spins.




However we also know that Boruto can determine if it even gets stronger or not, even to the point where he can one-shot a character that should at least be on code’s level.

How can code tank Uzuhiko and then Hidari can't


My point is there are many other forces we don't know of. The Uzhiko Boruto used against Hidari is way stronger than that of code (which includes Planetary rotation and orbit) which is just 5B and boruto still said that was not the maximum output.


I don't care whether Boruto is planetary or not my claim is we can't limit the verse to Uzuhiko.
 
Samlex1234 said:
I don't totally disagree with you
However Can you tell me why tier 4 and above for lesser characters like Momoshiki, Kaguya or even Toneri should be looked at with more skepticism
Click to expand...
I personally view the issue from a narrative and Author's POV perspective.

In the past few months, we've been given three explanations for Uzuhiko,

In all three examples, Uzuhiko is first and foremost explained to be using the power of the Earth's rotation/orbit/centrifugal force.

The only time it is mentioned that Uzuhiko is comprised of more than just those quantifiably Tier 5 forces is the databook.

"A new form of Rasengan that utilizes not only one's own chakra, but also the planet's rotation and orbit, plus the corresponding centrifugal and other forces."

However, the statement itself treats the "other forces" part as an afterthought to the main area the power of Uzuhiko is coming from, which is consistently the same across all three explanations, the rotation and centrifugal force of the planet Earth, to which Boruto has created a colloquialism by just referring to it as the Planet's "Chakra".

Not to mention iirc I've heard that the "other forces" part might not even be in the Japanese raws of the statement, which would kill any current argument that Uzuhiko is comprised of anything more than Planetary spin.

which would in turn mean that people like Code and Hidari (People massively above Jigen who is massively above Kaguya or Momoshiki) who Uzuhiko damaged were, until new information points to the contrary, damaged by Planetary Spin and nothing more.

Even from an Author's perspective, Ikemoto and Kishi created these Alien Parasytes that travel from planet to planet to absorb its power and get stronger while prolonging their lives.

The entirety of the Otsutsuki conflict has been about the destruction and preservation of Planet Earth from this same fate as seen with Kaguya, Toneri, Momo and Kin, Isshiki, and now Code/the Shinju.

So they have Bort, the ideological and narrative opposition to the Otsutsuki, create a jutsu that does not allow him to absorb the planet's power like an Otsutsuki would do but instead directs the planet's energy to quite literally fight back against those who seek to destroy it, giving the planet itself a sense of agency over its fate.

And yet Ike chose to make the Planet relevant power-wise, with something entirely tangible, a principle founded in real-world scientific logic.
Samlex1234 said:
when on this wiki we have literary had large planet Naruto based on some calcs(Now I'm not saying that it was right, however what I'm saying is we can be wrong currently for the proper Naruto tier, it is not set in stone)
Click to expand...
Of course, we can be wrong, information isn’t set in stone and is changing every time more Boruto data comes out

But until then, accepting what’s currently out with Astricks and acknowledging that more information could come out eventually is the more appropriate thing to do.
Samlex1234 said:
Uzuhiko should also not be a reason to justify the verse from scaling higher than planetary even people like Momoshiki Kaguya and so on. For all we know it could be confirmed that Momoshiki created his dimension(which we have some evidence to prove even now)
Click to expand...
If that is confirmed then it can be talked about it then,

also, I have yet to see any good evidence to suggest that for Momoshiki, in a timeframe that would even yield a tier 4 or higher result if calced. so whether or not thats even valid is a topic for a different day.
Samlex1234 said:
What We know is that code must have tanked the planet rotation and orbit energy why?
Click to expand...
Not the face of someone that "tanked" anything
Samlex1234 said:
However we also know that Boruto can determine if it even gets stronger or not, even to the point where he can one-shot a character that should at least be on code’s level.
Click to expand...
Boruto doesn't make Uzuhiko stronger, he's usually holding back Uzuhiko in normal instances, that's an important distinction.
Samlex1234 said:
How can code tank Uzuhiko and then Hidari can't
Click to expand...
Because Boruto held back on Code, someone he was trying to get information out of him on the Juubi's whereabouts.

Hidari was someone he was expressly trying to kill.
Samlex1234 said:
My point is there are many other forces we don't know of. The Uzhiko Boruto used against Hidari is way stronger than that of code (which includes Planetary rotation and orbit)
Click to expand...
The one used against Code had less of the Planetary Spin gathered.
Samlex1234 said:
which is just 5B and boruto still said that was not the maximum output.
Click to expand...
the non-maximum output Uzuhiko isn't quantifiable.

the 5B calc measures the entirety of the planet's rotational forces.

Maximum Output Uzuhiko is what uses the entirety of that energy since we already know Boruto "holds back" Uzuhiko's power normally.

This suggests that, at least by currently tangible means, his normal Uzuhiko is unquantifiably lower than the 5B calc.
Samlex1234 said:
I don't care whether Boruto is planetary or not my claim is we can't limit the verse to Uzuhiko.
Click to expand...
Like I already said, I agree to an extent.

But I don't think Boruto the series is going to all of these lengths for 10+ years lore-wise to create relevancy for the power of a planet or the power gained from devouring a planet, just for us to look at an already sketchy argument for Tier 4 or Tier 2 characters and say "this is way more accurate."
 
Godernet said:
I personally view the issue from a narrative and Author's POV perspective.

In the past few months, we've been given three explanations for Uzuhiko,

In all three examples, Uzuhiko is first and foremost explained to be using the power of the Earth's rotation/orbit/centrifugal force.

The only time it is mentioned that Uzuhiko is comprised of more than just those quantifiably Tier 5 forces is the databook.

"A new form of Rasengan that utilizes not only one's own chakra, but also the planet's rotation and orbit, plus the corresponding centrifugal and other forces."

However, the statement itself treats the "other forces" part as an afterthought to the main area the power of Uzuhiko is coming from, which is consistently the same across all three explanations, the rotation and centrifugal force of the planet Earth, to which Boruto has created a colloquialism by just referring to it as the Planet's "Chakra".

Not to mention iirc I've heard that the "other forces" part might not even be in the Japanese raws of the statement, which would kill any current argument that Uzuhiko is comprised of anything more than Planetary spin.

which would in turn mean that people like Code and Hidari (People massively above Jigen who is massively above Kaguya or Momoshiki) who Uzuhiko damaged were, until new information points to the contrary, damaged by Planetary Spin and nothing more.

Even from an Author's perspective, Ikemoto and Kishi created these Alien Parasytes that travel from planet to planet to absorb its power and get stronger while prolonging their lives.

The entirety of the Otsutsuki conflict has been about the destruction and preservation of Planet Earth from this same fate as seen with Kaguya, Toneri, Momo and Kin, Isshiki, and now Code/the Shinju.

So they have Bort, the ideological and narrative opposition to the Otsutsuki, create a jutsu that does not allow him to absorb the planet's power like an Otsutsuki would do but instead directs the planet's energy to quite literally fight back against those who seek to destroy it, giving the planet itself a sense of agency over its fate.

And yet Ike chose to make the Planet relevant power-wise, with something entirely tangible, a principle founded in real-world scientific logic.

Of course, we can be wrong, information isn’t set in stone and is changing every time more Boruto data comes out

But until then, accepting what’s currently out with Astricks and acknowledging that more information could come out eventually is the more appropriate thing to do.

If that is confirmed then it can be talked about it then,

also, I have yet to see any good evidence to suggest that for Momoshiki, in a timeframe that would even yield a tier 4 or higher result if calced. so whether or not thats even valid is a topic for a different day.

Not the face of someone that "tanked" anything

Boruto doesn't make Uzuhiko stronger, he's usually holding back Uzuhiko in normal instances, that's an important distinction.

Because Boruto held back on Code, someone he was trying to get information out of him on the Juubi's whereabouts.

Hidari was someone he was expressly trying to kill.

The one used against Code had less of the Planetary Spin gathered.

the non-maximum output Uzuhiko isn't quantifiable.

the 5B calc measures the entirety of the planet's rotational forces.

Maximum Output Uzuhiko is what uses the entirety of that energy since we already know Boruto "holds back" Uzuhiko's power normally.

This suggests that, at least by currently tangible means, his normal Uzuhiko is unquantifiably lower than the 5B calc.

Like I already said, I agree to an extent.

But I don't think Boruto the series is going to all of these lengths for 10+ years lore-wise to create relevancy for the power of a planet or the power gained from devouring a planet, just for us to look at an already sketchy argument for Tier 4 or Tier 2 characters and say "this is way more accurate."
Click to expand...
The last argument is flawed
Because they go around to devour planet chakra does not mean they cap at planet

1. Why do they go around to devour countless of planet chakra, because they want to evolve not stay planetary. ( Hence Shibai) .

2. The burden of proof is on your to prove that code has just some part of the planet spin, when we know that it says vehemently. “The chakra that is rushing through would never dissipate just like how a planet would never stop spinning,. I disagree with your logic

You have not provide any adequate proof to back your claim just an assumptions statement. We can agree to disagree as I don't see any of us budging soon.
 
I think Koji’s Prescience might not be as Combat applicable as The Almighty (Until we see Koji fight with it). Unlike Almighty, where Yhwach see’s all possible futures as Grains of Sand and people jumping from Grain to Grain, the way Koji explained it is as if, while he “can” see all futures, it’s unknown which branch will be selected until its selected.

Meaning one would have to plan for literally all possible outcomes to take advantage of Prescience whereas with The Almighty, you can see which future an individual is gunning for, and easier to plan accordingly.

Thoughts?
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
I think Koji’s Prescience might not be as Combat applicable as The Almighty (Until we see Koji fight with it). Unlike Almighty, where Yhwach see’s all possible futures as Grains of Sand and people jumping from Grain to Grain, the way Koji explained it is as if, while he “can” see all futures, it’s unknown which branch will be selected until its selected.

Meaning one would have to plan for literally all possible outcomes to take advantage of Prescience whereas with The Almighty, you can see which future an individual is gunning for, and easier to plan accordingly.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Please can we stop comparing prescience to the almighty? However, I digress.

In prescience their outcomes with higher chances and some with low chances

 
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